24 replies to this topic

[MirageES]

This is my first post, but I've been playing MWO for a little bit now. Instead of asking for a build outright, I decided to share my thoughts on a chassis and post my latest build for my AS7-K and open it up for critique. I don't know if this is a standard first thread, or if most people post an Intro thread first, but I'm the type that tends to do my own thing (not always good on the internet, I know.) That being said, I'll get to the point of this post.

When I was looking at which 'mech to buy, I knew my first one had to be an Atlas; I know, I know, very cliche. After spending some time on smurfy I decided that the AS7-K was the chassis that would give me the hard-points and spare tonnage I wanted, so I saved up C-bills until I could buy it. At first, I loved the thing as is, then decided I needed a LRM-15 instead of LRM-20, and I needed Med Lasers instead of Med Pulse Lasers. I'm all set! Play a few matches and get it handed to me on a silver platter with side torso destruction deaths. This XL wasn't working out too well. Start over! Lets go with a STD engine and rework the weapons. Well, I tried various builds after that, and slowly did better. I finally have got to where I am now with this AS7-K, my latest creation. I welcome any critiques or constructive criticism. My noobish take on the AS7-K is that it can be effective with the right tweaks, and it takes a lot of tweaks to get the "right" ones, and there are also better options to choose than the AS7-K if you just have to have an Atlas. I like my AS7-K, and I don't regret getting it as it provided a learning experience; I think I made a good choice in the long run, and I will keep working to improve both my 'mech and my skill.

If you're still reading this, thank you for indulging my rambling, and I'll try to be less long-winded in the future. Also, please let me know if the smurfy link didn't work; this was my first time trying to post one.

[Flapdrol]

double heatsinks are pretty much always better, so start with that In your build it gets you 10 extra tons with the same dissipation (because there are 10 in engine heatsinks that magically count as 2.0, extra dhs counts as 1.4 instead of the 1 of a single heatsink)

Edited by Flapdrol, 15 September 2013 - 08:13 AM.

[ZeProme]

Get DHS. It is literally mandatory for 99% of the builds.

Also, why do you need a TAG when you have no missiles?

[Dan Nashe]

The 10 DOUBLE heat sinks in the engine provide 2 x heat dissipation compared to Single Heat Sinks.

So you will get the same heat dissipation for not a single ton or crit with DHS. Saving you 10 tons.

Heatsinks 11+ only provide 1.4.
But yeah, that means DHS is a no-brainer.

Also, do you ever use that much AC 20 ammo? I have trouble using 21 shots in a match.

I would always put one ton of ammo in the head. It gets used first and the odds of getting critically hit in the head and LIVING even without an ammo explosion are pretty small.

I wouldn't expend a hardpoint on tag on an assault mech. You probably want a higher alpha.

Are you using the ER LL and the PPC that much? I'd go one or the other.

AS7-K
3 MLs, 1 ERPPC, 325 standard (bigger engine) and your heat efficiency is a lot higher.

Can lower the engine and go back to a large laser if you'd like, but I figured with the AC20 you are often in brawling range.
45 point alpha strike, 41% heat efficiency.

My two cents, trying to preserve the way the mech plays.
Could strip a little leg armor to add another ton of ammo of some sort. Move a ton of AC20 to an arm (Head-->CT--> Then arms/torsos ---> then legs is how ammo gets used, so 7 shots in the left arm would get used first, leaving no ammo there after you've fired. Then put another ton of ams in the legs if you really want 2 tons of ams. Or get a 5th ton of AC20 ammo. Lots of options.

Edited by DanNashe, 15 September 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[Zarakynel]

Why put only 2 tons of AMS ammo for dual AMS. If you are going to have that much ams going, I'd put at least 3, maybe 4 tons. I'd move the AMS ammo to the arms, fill the legs and head with the AC/20 ammo, now you can drop the case as well. Double heat sinks will definitely help on on it's heat efficiency. Putting a tag on it is kind of useless since there is no missiles on it, and by the time you get up close enough a faster mech will have a tag already out and on it. I'd swap the ER large to the arm in place of the tag to get a better area of fire.

[The Boz]

You will rarely deplete a single ton of AMS ammo. Two tons is a good number for two AMS systems.

[Versi]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cdcbe17ea550555

that's more along my ideas of workable. only missing some points of armor on the legs, to get a bit of tonnage. You have your PPCs on group one, chainfire or not depending on map, the 20 for a big punch of group two, and then 3 is your lasers. That's a "In PPC min range/I have spare heat" group. 4 tons of 20 ammo and 2 tons of AMS is probably more than enough for anything, once you get hitting stuff. Your ideal range will be 90-300m, where you can smack people with your 20s and PPCS at almost the exact same time, maybe even adding the MPLS for a little extra oomph if your sinks can handle it, but the MPLS do next to nothing at 300m, so that's more for nearer to the PPC minimum range.

I hope it works for you, or helps you make something you like more :)

Edited by Versi, 15 September 2013 - 08:35 AM.

[MirageES]

Thanks for the input. My logic on the TAG was that I'm going to be pretty close to the enemy anyway, so I'll TAG them for the people with LRMs; but as Zarakynel said, a lighter 'mech will have already TAGed it. As almost all of you have stated, DHS is prob. the way to go, but I didn't have the C-bills at the time and I worked with what I had. DHS are definitely in the future. As for AMS ammo, I have yet to run out during a match, but neither have I run out of AC-20 ammo. I'll do a retake on this build, and I'll try to improve.

[Bront]

I worked with a friend designing this build: AS7-K. It's space starved, but it's functional

It has long range firepower, and is pretty heat efficient (The heat profile is better when not firing the MLs at long range, or later when you run out of LRM ammo), isn't too slow, and is fully armored. Other options from there are to shave off a few tons and drop a 350 in there (or just something larger than the 325) like this AS7-K. A bit faster, giving you more tactical options at the cost of dropping to an LRM10 and losing a ton of LRM ammo.

The K works well as a longer range support mech, but there's no reason it can't brawl prettty well, and outside of the LRM, no weapons in this build wouldn't be useful in a brawl.

[Modo44]

The standard Atlas K build is fast, with a 350 engine, 3LLs, AC20. It runs cool enough for at least 2 lasers and the AC to fire continuously. Use it for flanking and/or leading faster mechs on a rampage. You can make a marginally safer build with an LRM10 and 2 tons of AMS ammo. If you don't mind running hot, 2 MLs in the CT will free up some tonnage.

IMO the other Atlas chassis work better with slow builds. They can utilize the saved tonnage thanks to more weapon hardpoints. About the only reason to go slow with a K would be to take a silly amount of heatsinks for 2 ERPPCs (no Endo Steel).

1 ton of AMS ammo used to be enough, but it can run out in 12vs12. If you run out of 2 before hugging the LRM boat(s) to death, reconsider your tactics.

[SethAbercromby]

I generally advise to take at least 1 ton for every weapon you use. Exceptions being LRM5 (1 ton of ammo for two launchers), LRM15 (3 tons of ammo for 2 launchers) and LRM20 (2 tons of ammo for every launcher). So if you are using two AMS, you should try to take 2 tons of ammo with you. I have yet to run out on my dual AMS Stalker but I often find myself below 1000 if I do survive the entire match.

[Kaijin]

MirageES, on 15 September 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

My logic on the TAG was that I'm going to be pretty close to the enemy anyway, so I'll TAG them for the people with LRMs; but as Zarakynel said, a lighter 'mech will have already TAGed it.

Your logic is good. Light mechs are often busy chasing other light mechs around, and even if they aren't, if they have TAG, who's to say they'll be tagging your target? It weighs the same as a medium laser and takes up a single energy slot just like a medium laser, so I say give it a whirl. If it's not working out for you, swap it out for something else.

[Ghengis Cohen]

I never thought about dual AMS. I've also never depleted a full ton of AMS ammo.

I don't drive an Atlas, but it seems to me that you need to be concerned about establishng a volume of fire due to the fact that everyone loves bangin' away at an Atlas. Doesn't matter what purpose you had in mind (If you build it, they will come). Three weapons, two of which are slow cycle, doesn't seem adequate.

[Swords to Plowshares]

One small piece of advice:

Put your AMS ammo in your cockpit. It's very hard to blow out an Atlas' eye, it's a pretty small target, and if someone actually breaches all the way through it you're pretty close to dead already. Keeping it in your arms means it is probably exploding more often than you realise and even though it doesn't do a lot of damage, if you can save yourself from taking another 20 damage, you should.

[NRP]

Welcome to the forums, MirageES!

People have offered good build advice so far, so all I'll add is that the Assault class in general (and the Atlas in particular) is probably the most unforgiving one in MWO. It'll be a hard road, but stick with it because it's very useful to have an Atlas (or three) on your team.

[Selfish]

There's nothing an AS7-K can really do that outshines the other variants, and the STK-5S is a better dual AMS platform. In its defense it's still an Atlas with the potential for zombie, so it's not a complete dud.

I'd run it with something like this. STD 325s and 350s are better in most Atlas builds. Not so much for the raw speed, but for the twist speed increase with less crit space used on heat sinks. DHS is mandatory, but Endo-Steel is optional depending on what kind of build you're going for. Often, if it's energy heavy, you'll need to forgo ES to use the space for DHS.

Lots of players will caution you to hide your AMS ammo in your head, but it's a very small explosion (24 damage if full) compared to other weapon systems. Save your head slot for something very dangerous like SRM ammo.

[Swords to Plowshares]

Selfish, on 26 September 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Lots of players will caution you to hide your AMS ammo in your head, but it's a very small explosion (24 damage if full) compared to other weapon systems. Save your head slot for something very dangerous like SRM ammo.

Bear in mind though, that ammo stored in the head is used up first. Storing AC20 ammo in the head (You could also say SRM, but s/he isn't using them), for example, means that the stuff he or she has stored in the torso sides will just sit there and be available to be blown up and cause catastrophic damage that much longer. Better to keep some in the side torso where it gets spent first and the rest in the legs. AMS ammo usage, unlike every other kind of ammunition, isn't something you can choose to spend.

Since s/he isn't using SRMs, but only AC20 and AMS as ammo-dependable items, if this person puts AC20 ammo in the head it just means more of it sits in the side torso (since you can only stuff 4 tons in the legs) while the head ammo is drained first. Very dangerous. Edit: To clarify - for his or her particular existing build, the least dangerous setup would be this: 4 tons of AC20 ammo in legs. 1 ton in LT. 1 ton of AMS ammo in head, the other in LT. CASE on LT. This means AC20 ammo altogether will be completely out of the torso in just 7 shots and spent. AMS ammo now sits in the head where it is hard to damage, and the last ton is 24 damage that can't bleed through due to C.A.S.E.. Or even better, 2 tons of AC20 ammo in the LT and the last AMS in the leg, if they can reliably always spend 14 shots before the LT gets opened up.

Edited by John Neil, 26 September 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[Cest7]

AS7-K
Been tweaking this since closed beta. I miss the 6 laser hardpoints

[CheeseThief]

Whenever I get around to buying one, I'm going to equip mine like this.


Edit;
And to keep in the spirit of the tread I'll explain some of my deign decisions instead of just posting a build.

For starters, the two most basic things you do with any Assault, remove the XL engine and upgrade to DHS.

XL engines are death traps on an Atlas. By taking an XL engine you are effectively reducing your survivability to that of a Dragon, only without the speed and with enough firepower to draw all the attention. Take it out and sell it to recoup some of the excessive purchase price of the AS7-K and buy a standard.

DHS are also a no brainer change, the 10 DHS in the engine are worth 20 SHS, so by throwing money at this upgrade you've effectively saved yourself 10 ton and 10 crits at no disadvantage.

With the no brainers out of the way, in my build I have removed 2.5 ton of armour from the arms and legs, bringing the numbers down to the max levels of a Victor. Simple reason is that no one ever goes out of their way to shoot the arms, and why would they? 80~HP to blast through just to destroy one weapon that's going to fall off with a side torso destruction. The legs on the other hand people tend to test, if it's obvious that you've taken a significant amount of armour off them, then they'll go checking for ammo, which on an Atlas they'll probably find.

With this build the legs have been shaved but not by enough to make them a tempting target over a torso, and since the arms are mostly there to absorb LRM's and block shots via torso twisting they get shaved because of the AS7-K's dual AMS.

So off the bat we have effectively saved 12.5 ton by shaving armour and upgrading to DHS with no effective loss. 9.5 of that will be lost by turning the engine back into a STD300, so we have 3 ton left to play with, 4 after we remove both CASE and hide the ammo in the legs and head.

Since the AS7-K is extremely hot, adding 4 double heatsinks will let us last a little longer before needing to cool off.


The guns are personal preference, I have dropped the MPL's in exchange for ML''s because I find their range pathetically short for such a slow mech, and I have dropped the Gauss Rifle for an AC20 and an extra ton of ammo because I dislike the charge up time and have the LRM's and ERLL's to cover the long range work. This leaves 2 ton of space which I have used to add a second AMS and upgrade the LRM20 with Artemis.

This leaves half a ton left and us at an impasse.

You can either sink that half a ton back into armour, or we can spend another 3 million c-bills to grab Endo and an STD325 engine for a torso twist speed upgrade, bringing our mechanical money sink up to around 22 million c-bills.

Edited by CheeseThief, 26 September 2013 - 10:51 PM.

[MirageES]

Thanks for all the feedback, I haven't been ignoring it; I've been sick.

Here's my current setup, or as close to it as I can get without looking at the MWO mechlab; I'm on a work comp. AS7-K
I got a personal best of about 700+ damage with 3 kills, 8 assists, and a match score of 111 with this current build.

The STD Heat-Sinks are due to C-bills, I will be upgrading as soon as I have enough. i have to admit, I spent all my C-bills on an Orion, so I neglected my poor Atlas. This AS7-K is what I am going to end up with after I get the C-bills together. I welcome any critiques you have to offer, and look foreward to seeing you on the battlefield.

Edited by MirageES, 29 September 2013 - 09:25 AM.