39 replies to this topic

[ManDaisy]

Honestly... I now your new and you think biggest is best ... but you are seriously ROBBING YOUR TEAM of potential fire power and support they need by prancing around like a little girl scared of her own shadow!

INSTEAD, pick a medium mech, where their role IS to support and follow others into battle. To many damn times I see some *** hat standing back only to realize his entire team is dead, only then to realize he shoulda joined the battle.

If the enemy is split! PUSH GOD DAMNIT.

Bu nope! You gotta stand back, way in the back, DRIVING YOUR HUMMER SUV of a mech and trying to feel "safe".

I know some of you are insecure and like to feel "protected" but...

**** SUVs. **** HUMMERS. Cars or go home.

Edited by ManDaisy, 15 September 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[Royalewithcheese]

There's no weight balancing hahaha. I'd rather have a 2xUAC/5 + 2xPPC HGN 733C backing me up than I would a 2xPPC Blackjack.

[Navy Sixes]

Yeah, you really do have to play the position. If you're fielding an assault, and you wonder what everyone is just standing around waiting for behind the boat in Forest Colony, or behind the ridge in Frozen City... they're waiting on you. You lead the charge. That's your position.

If you're fielding an assault and trying to stay on the edge of the battle, looking for the weak point to commit yourself, trust me: Wherever two or more assaults decide to drive into the enemy is going to be the weak point. That's your position.

One of my favorite learning moments was after a battle that didn't go well, when another player chatted, "When the guy driving the atlas says, 'I'm gonna look for some high ground to snipe from,' you know it's not going to go well." Very true.

But this goes both ways. You see a couple of assaults making the push, you push with them. That's where the LRM/snipe/skirmish support needs to focus. Assaults make the push. The rest of us need to play our positions and support the push. Don't hang two assaults out to dry. You go down two assaults with nothing to show for it, your chances to win just dropped exponentially.

Everyone needs to remember there are no bonuses for dying last.

[Royalewithcheese]

Tycho von Gagern, on 15 September 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

One of my favorite learning moments was after a battle that didn't go well, when another player chatted, "When the guy driving the atlas says, 'I'm gonna look for some high ground to snipe from,' you know it's not going to go well." Very true.

That's not an Assault thing, it's an Atlas thing. STK/HGN/VTR are some of the best long-range platforms in the game.

[John Buford]

ManDaisy, on 15 September 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Honestly... I now your new and you think biggest is best ... but you are seriously ROBBING YOUR TEAM of potential fire power and support they need by prancing around like a little girl scared of her own shadow!

INSTEAD, pick a medium mech, where their role IS to support and follow others into battle. To many damn times I see some *** hat standing back only to realize his entire team is dead, only then to realize he shoulda joined the battle.

If the enemy is split! PUSH GOD DAMNIT.

Bu nope! You gotta stand back, way in the back, DRIVING YOUR HUMMER SUV of a mech and trying to feel "safe".

I know some of you are insecure and like to feel "protected" but...

**** SUVs. **** HUMMERS. Cars or go home.

Agreed thats why I don't get from some people who play an Atlas. They load it up with stuff like LRM's, Gauss, ERPPC and think they are a Sniper. Little do they understand that because all of thier weapons are located low in the torso and arms they have to expose themselves to enemy fire and really don't have the speed to get out of the line of fire. This ofcourse means they take more damage than they deal. If you want to snipe take a Mech that is somewhat quick or has weapons mounted hi onthe torso.

[Aluminumfoiled]

Was it the Atlas RS on sale a while back? Right after I saw a lot of Atlas missile boats. (Bad tube setup for lrms anyway). Spectated them going down last from their launch location doing 135 damage. While the meds and heavies died 300 m away tanking all that damage.

Some pilots remarked on this but if they don't get it there is no hope for them. How can you beat a cat for lrms or even some mediums or even the STK. You can put 2-15's on a treb and go 100kph with a full launch at firing.

[Mycrus]

Let's be honest - when people are new they think biggest is best.

Nothing wrong with that. I started out with an Atlas and worked my way down the line.

I mostly play lights and mediums now because I'm more experienced in the game than I was back in closed beta..

Do I get annoyed to see an Atlas cowering in the distance.. Sure sometimes - then I spam team chat with "Atlas PUSH in we need you"..

It is just the nature of pugging..

If you want to play a smarter game... Drop in 12s..

[Sparks Murphey]

If you want to play like a little girl, you definitely shouldn't bring an assault. You should take a Jenner, and race around with night vision on, gunning down your opponents with medium lasers and Streaks, right up in their face. Get 'em good, that's how little girls play.

But seriously, while I agree with the idea that assaults should be taking the brunt of the damage, since that's their role, can we avoid the gendered language please? Being a girl doesn't make you afraid of things, and being a boy doesn't make you brave. Let's move past the medieval era here.

[Navy Sixes]

Royalewithcheese, on 15 September 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

That's not an Assault thing, it's an Atlas thing. STK/HGN/VTR are some of the best long-range platforms in the game.

True, but I was speaking more to the newer players taking stock mechs or just figuring out how they're going to build an assault for the first time. If you've got a VTR build that works like a charm 600m behind the action, by all means. Be advised that when tonnage limits come down, there are going to be a lot of lighter mech-drivers that may not be so appreciative, having to push into enemy fire while something packing twice the armor drifts around in the backfield.

Mycrus, on 15 September 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

Let's be honest - when people are new they think biggest is best.
Nothing wrong with that. I started out with an Atlas and worked my way down the line.

Ah, memories. Yeah, I never dropped C-Bills on an assault, but I ran the stock atlas when I started out. Who has played Battletech and wouldn't jump at the opportunity to drive around in the big, bad skull? But I remember trundling around in that thing, it taking forever to get anywhere, and thinking, "Man, I don't know what I'm going to do for my first build, but it's going to be faster than this." I think the best thing about doing the assaults to start is having enough armor to take a few hits while you're figuring out how to shoot stuff. Of course, I started before ghost heat put an end to the >4 PPC pp alpha sniper craze, so for me "a few hits" usually meant exactly two.

You're right. New players take the assaults because they think they can take any mech, so why not the biggest, then try to figure out how they're going to play the game. It might seem intuitive now, having played a while, to understand that some mechs just aren't made for some roles, but new players don't always get that. So you get some people trying to sneak around the edge of the scrum and surprise someone from behind in their atlas, or trying to engage and then disengage and assist others with their fights. Or perhaps worst of all, they try to break away completely and go for the cap.

I think you have the best suggestion for how to handle those players. Explain the situation, but be positive and encouraging, or at the very least don't be a {Richard Cameron} about it. For someone just figuring this thing out for the first time, things can get a little frustrating. The last thing anyone in that position is going to respond to is insults. It's easy to forget that, win or lose, we want new players to actually enjoy themselves enough to stick with it.

[Rushin Roulette]

Tycho von Gagern, on 15 September 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Yeah, you really do have to play the position. If you're fielding an assault, and you wonder what everyone is just standing around waiting for behind the boat in Forest Colony, or behind the ridge in Frozen City... they're waiting on you. You lead the charge. That's your position.

Realistically this isnt true. The whole team is standing there thinking

"I know that the whole enemy team is standing over there, but I dont want to be the first to look over. Maybe someone else will do it. Oh look. An Atlas volunteered, great now I dont have to"

DakaDakaDakaPewPewBOOOOOOM (Player X killed Atlas)

"Maybe its not such a great idea to go over there now. Lets look for a different spot".

[BOWMANGR]

Finally, I've been trying to get across this point whenever a discussion about PUGs and/or role warfare was going on.

IMO almost 80% of the decisive victories {I mean 12-0, 12-1, 12-2 matches} in PUG matches can be explained easily if you take your time and spectate your teammates. Almost always its the Assault pilots who don't know what they are doing and the whole team suffers.

While spectating I've seen:

a} Atlas sniper.... *facepalm*
b} Atlas LRM boat *double facepalm*
c} Stalker standing 800m in the back launching LRM10s while Mediums get slaughtered in the frontlines
d} Assault pilot cowering in fear behind cover while teammates try to push.
e} Assaults standing still behind cover and 5 other mechs standing behind them just waiting for the charge that never happens.
f} A wild enemy Spider appears and everyone loses their minds trying to get it even if they are in the frontline. While Lights and Mediums are supposed to try and chase the Spider away, most of the time Heavies and more importantly Assaults turn around trying to hit the damned Spider exposing their backs to the enemy team AND letting them take advantage of that. If the enemy team charges at that time when everyone is shooting that Spider, it's game over.
g} Assault pilot goes hiding after seeing Medium getting slaughtered. *sheesh*


If you are going to play an Assault, start ASSAULTING damn it!! You want to play snipers and LRM boats, get a specialized Heavy and do the job 10 times better. You have TONS of armor that must be used to absorb enemy fire so that your other specialized teammates stay alive long enough to do their thing.

If you are piloting an Assault and you finish the fight with most of your armor intact while your team had many casualties, it is YOUR fault for not absorbing all that damage. Assaults absorb damage, it's what they do. Don't get an assault so that you feel 'safe' while every OMGnoob around you dies in a Medium. You get an Assault so that you can take the damage that they can't.

The matchmaker tries to balance teams with tonnage too. Maybe it's not heavily enforced with tonnage limitations but it IS there. You can see that when your team has many heavies and assaults the other team has them too, when you have many light they do have many lights too. So if for example each team has 2 Assaults and in your team one of those two is a "I'm staying back sniping with my Gauss-Atlas" noob then your team immediately is at a disadvantage over the other team with the 2 Assaults that...well, ASSAULT.
I hope this makes sense.


So for all Assault pilots out there:
If you are going to bring an Assault into battle and you are not absorbing damage while fighting, you put your team at a SEVERE disadvantage. So stop wondering why everyone else is a noob and dies faster than you while you die last and start wondering if YOU are the noob staying back while the Mediums try to fight in the frontline taking YOUR place. That's why your team lost, because YOU didn't take the damage that you could afford to take and others had to step up doing things that they aren't supposed to do.

Assume the Team armor total is a resource to picture what I'm saying. The MORE of this resource you spend in each fight the more your team stays alive. If the enemy damage output is spread over the team armor and not over internals then more team members are staying alive and in the fight. Guess WHO has the most team armor to spend? Yes, YOU the assault. If you are behind the frontlines than all this armor you carry is USELESS. Keeping you alive is your armors SECOND usage. Your armor's first use is to absorb enemy damage that would otherwise kill one of your teammates. It's that simple yet people get an Assault thinking that they are just 'protected' more. Your armor is not a bonus of your mech class, it's a FEATURE. USE IT!!! Your team will win more. Sometimes you may die faster but your team will win.

If you are going to die do you prefer to die earlier and win or die later and lose?


P.S. To be fair to the Assaults, I've also seen a few instances where the Assault assaults and the support mech just stay there watching him die alone. This sucks too. Keep an eye on your minimap, it provides LOADS of info and a lot of hints about combat tactics. It's not just a "the enemy is there" visual aid. You can get battle info from your teammates postions, THEIR FACING, their speed and so on. If you see a friendly blue triangle on your minimap going around a corner and then suddenly backing up, even if you don't see anything {ECM people} even if you are in a PUG and he didn't use the chat to tell you anything, you KNOW that he saw something and he may be taking fire already.

There are lots of other examples of what other tactical info you can gather just by taking a look at your minimap that it simply requires another thread.

PGI really needs to make a video tutorial about mech warfare to stop the Atlas-snipers, Atlas-LRM boats and similar Assault builds from losing you the game.

[Chrithu]

The whole problem about this is that new plaers shouldn't be dropped with vets by the matchmaker. It frustrates both sides. And looking at the macthes I get it happens far too often to just be some of those "outlier" matches.

But that's just repeating what is told from day one of CB. It could all be so awesome if we had custom match setup. This whole communit would revolve around the third party leagues and tournaments. Instead of just hopping on some TS to find random dudes to play with the majority of people would be joining organized groups. The organized groups would be heavily invested in training newbs. And so on and so on.

Random macthmaking should be a gimmick for fast macthes in between and NOT the main mode of operation. Way to misdesign important game aspects from the ground up.

[Reginald Lansing]

Sparks Murphey, on 15 September 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Get 'em good, that's how little girls play.

Makes me tear up every time.

[Mycrus]

The only atlas I can condone with lurms is the K

And supported by midrange weapons in the 300-500m range..

But it should played as close support (direct and indirect fire)..

[Strayed]

ManDaisy, on 15 September 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Honestly... I now your new and you think biggest is best ... but you are seriously ROBBING YOUR TEAM of potential fire power and support they need by prancing around like a little girl scared of her own shadow!

INSTEAD, pick a medium mech, where their role IS to support and follow others into battle. To many damn times I see some *** hat standing back only to realize his entire team is dead, only then to realize he shoulda joined the battle.

If the enemy is split! PUSH GOD DAMNIT.

Bu nope! You gotta stand back, way in the back, DRIVING YOUR HUMMER SUV of a mech and trying to feel "safe".

I know some of you are insecure and like to feel "protected" but...

**** SUVs. **** HUMMERS. Cars or go home.

But but.... I may scratch a nail!

Nah but in all seriousness think it's wrong just to target a particular chassis. People will play chickenwarrior no matter what mech they are in. Hell I had 5 Assault matches in a row that out of 24 mechs in the game, only 4 actively wanted to fight each other! The rest parked somewhere like for example, lower city in River, and only came up to "help" us when they started taking damage and their position wasn't safe!

Frankly if they played like little girls it would be an improvement in my books, cause some little girls I've encountered have way more balls than the guys do.

[M0rpHeu5]

Although i support this op i must say that not alway the team support the pushing assults, i've died many time that way.

[WildeKarde]

I'm getting the impression no one here would rate my DC atlas with 3 lrm5, 2 AC2's, TAG and large pulse

TBH I've seen a lot of assaults be very cautious at times, try and pop over the ridge to snap shot only to get a PPC in the face followed by about 100 LRM's.

The worst part in game is pushing the assault into the enemy to suddenly see your team go off at a tangent around a hill leaving you to get pumped silly by the enemy. Assaults might lead the attack but if the team doesn't support then your not leaving the fight with all your limbs attached.

However, assaults don't make good scouts to find the enemy. They are too slow to get into position or back out of a bad location. A good breakthrough by an assault can rip the enemies tactics apart.

[Razuko]

BANZAI!

[DarkDevilDancer]

Lurmstalkers make me really sad if you want to boat lrms that's what the catapults for, I've actually seen then without even a medium laser for close in defensive.

There's nothing wrong with assaults carrying long range weapons but you have to get stuck in at some point, my atlas have 350 std engines for just that reason it's only 62kph but it makes alot of difference.

[Pauly]

The title of this post gave me a good laugh! I also understand where your coming from. That's why I generally play medium! Your own shadow is scary damn thing!!!