54 replies to this topic

[xMEPHISTOx]

Quote

Visible Cockpit Glass
Do you support this suggestion?

Bah, I can care less one way or the other as it is just fluff that does not make the game more interesting...not the content that I am interested in or been awaiting for a year and a half.

[Johnny Z]

Elyam, on 17 September 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

The cockpit shouldn't really be a visible part of the experience. Mechwarriors are supposed to be piloting while encased in a heavy neurohelmet with all vision augmented by mech sensors and HUD including a compressed 360 of the surrounding environment. I would be for the glass enhancement if we ever played outside of that venue (for example, if we could enter and leave the cockpit and see the regular interior), but I would rather the devs spend their time moving us toward the actual neurohelmet interface view..

This is selective lore your saying here, many of the games and story and lore have no helmet. So it is my opinion there were many forms of user interface with the battle mechs. Within reason, who to say there wasnt?

I have seen alot of great ideas that are not cheesy and dont suck being shot down with the selective use of lore.

Also seen alot added to lore that actually takes away from the original style and character of Mechwarrior.

[Coralld]

The cockpit "glass" is called Plexa-Steel, or something like that, its not glass at all but a very thick, durable, yet light weight polymer.

Just a fun little lore fact.

[Elyam]

Johnny Z, on 18 December 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

This is selective lore your saying here, many of the games and story and lore have no helmet. So it is my opinion there were many forms of user interface with the battle mechs. Within reason, who to say there wasnt?

I have seen alot of great ideas that are not cheesy and dont suck being shot down with the selective use of lore.

Also seen alot added to lore that actually takes away from the original style and character of Mechwarrior.

I can understand why you say that. What I described has never been codified as fact or rule. The rulebooks and encyclopedic histories avoid specifics other than the basic role of the neurohelmet and the tactile controls for the pilot (very generalized). But of all produced BT material up to the present timeline exhibited in MWO, this description has been the most favored. I'll certainly champion it as what should indeed be codified.

In the end, if MWO goes with a notion of the pilot looking out through his helmet and through the cockpit clearsteel, and if they want to provide immersion via visible damage to the 'glass', that isn't a terrible thing. It will be a nice feature especially for those who have no preconceptions. But I'll still prefer what I wrote in the previous 2 posts. For many of us it's inherent to BT.

Edited by Elyam, 18 December 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Ineffigy]

[Jaeger Gonzo]

If we are in this. Why dont we have back camera? Thats stuff is even in cars now.
And would add flavor and diversity as back hard points would be possible. As thay should be on the dragon for the fastest exmpl.

[Gaan Cathal]

Elyam, on 18 December 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

I can understand why you say that. What I described has never been codified as fact or rule. The rulebooks and encyclopedic histories avoid specifics other than the basic role of the neurohelmet and the tactile controls for the pilot (very generalized). But of all produced BT material up to the present timeline exhibited in MWO, this description has been the most favored. I'll certainly champion it as what should indeed be codified.

If it's been the 'most favoured description' up until now then why's it so hard to get an image of it?

















These came from a brief Google Images search, didn't take long, they demonstrate two important and pertinent points. Firstly, that Mechwarrior neurohelmets appear to have a glass visor of some description with varying shape and/or retractability. Secondly that early BTech art should never, ever, ever be used to justify anything at all ever unless it's in a hearing at the Hague.


Edit:



This is the only image I can find with a hexagonal opening in a helmet, and it's the access port at the back for the cabling.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 20 December 2013 - 04:45 AM.

[anonymous161]

No because it wont be a very good effect by these guys, and frankly rather they work on something more important.

[Elyam]

I looked for a while and came up empty, but you found the one pic. Thank you! Originally that was the only version of the helmet that existed, and it's always been the image I most recall. But even now looking at the pic you found from one of the manuals showing the evolution of the helmets - I remember that picture, but its been years.

Anyway, despite the change from the tiny hex port to the more open ones, the rest of what I wrote still stands. I prefer and will champion the version of interface and control forwarded by Stackpole and others that has the visual interface being almost entirely absorbed in the augmented, helmet-provided, compressed 360 view. Same said for the traditional near-naked dress of the mechwarrior due to heat, with only helmet, cooling vest, and a few other items worn - as opposed to the depictions of the pilot as wearing a full suit of some kind like we have in MWO.

[Durant Carlyle]

Johnny Z, on 18 December 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

This is selective lore your saying here, many of the games and story and lore have no helmet. So it is my opinion there were many forms of user interface with the battle mechs. Within reason, who to say there wasnt?

I have read most of the books, and I don't recall any scenes in which there specifically was no neurohelmet. It's the only interface between the 'MechWarrior and the gyro -- without it, the 'Mech cannot balance.

There are different kinds of neurohelmet, some with advanced Star League technology and some that are very basic. But there is ALWAYS a neurohelmet. And that helmet has a 360­º sensor view compressed into 160º in front of the 'MechWarrior's eyes.

Those depictions of 'MechWarriors having full-body cooling suits were of Star League technology. Those suits were basically available to ComStar only (and maybe the Clans, I forget). Jeremiah Rose from the Black Thorns had two of those from his days in ComStar before he created his mercenary unit. The rest of the Inner Sphere had the cooling vests worn with a pair of shorts.

[Jay Kerensky]

Maybe we could have simple stuff first like more than 7 maps (snow and night do not count) and, oh I don't know, to be able to target friendlies to see their load outs FFS. Once that is out of the way then lets go nuts on new and improved colour sales and visual prettiness and flowers and birds and sh*t.

[Ziogualty]

I would really like to vote yes, but i voted no.

Until film grain is on, i don't need anything else to affect my vision.

[C E Dwyer]

Only the early types of mech had a plasteel, clear aloooominum, or whatever, if you go by the shaky canon BT MW is based on.

Its fluff and its development detracts from man hours that should be used on important things.

But its in the game in january in some form, even so further developement of it while the big items are missing is a waste of man hours and things like this should fall way behind the projects needed feature.

This shouldn't be considered again until 2016 at the rate MWO is developed at the earliest

[tucsonspeed6]

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[Baruti Madu]

More immersion, the better. This would be 'revolutionary' in mechwarrior online. One thing I loved, Halo Reach, last mission Lone Wolf. When you take enough damage your helmet starts cracking. I love it, cuz now im fearing for my life. (ok, vicariously through the game but you get the idea) So to support this in a simple anser. YES

[Asakara]

Tweaks, on 16 September 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

The transparent part of the cockpit is supposed to be made of special laminated glass or some other transparent material. I don't know what it's supposed to be made of, but I know it's transparent and that it's not a video screen.


...

Wanted for questioning...

[SaltBeef]

I agree in 3050 if mankind made it there in reality and was still warlike it would not have transparasteel at all for viewing. Vision would be through solid armor , ( sensory skinned armor that through a helmet the pilot could see through the mech ) and sensory data would follow the vision and head movement. But in battletech they have transparasteel so the outside effects add realism. Rain needs to beed of it forcing a thermal view and ballistics leave black smudges if they deflect and don't penetrate. But a defroster should be standard equiptment .

[Blue Footed Booby]

SaltBeef, on 22 January 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

I agree in 3050 if mankind made it there in reality and was still warlike it would not have transparasteel at all for viewing. Vision would be through solid armor , ( sensory skinned armor that through a helmet the pilot could see through the mech ) and sensory data would follow the vision and head movement.

I agree as well. Not-glass is clearly still weaker than metal or composite armor since otherwise you'd see more of the mech's shell made from it, at least for the high-end mechs. Therefore it's completely ridiculous to think that any sane engineer would dramatically compromise durability for the sake of a backup system. It's a textbook example of robbing Peter to pay Paul. If they want a backup they should use more sensors.

The way I see it there are only two likely explanations:
1. The glass is the primary way of seeing and the sensors are backup/augmentation

2. It's a damn game. Lip service is paid to realism for flavor purposes and then ignored whenever convenient.

Sidenote: I've read that the F-35 Join Strike Fighter's crazy helmet display can project indicators for position of aircraft picked up by radar onto the pilot's field of view, even ones blocked from view by the body of the plane. Basically it's like the whole aircraft is transparent for the purposes of maintaining situational awareness. I bring this up because it's really cool, but also because it shows how far technology has developed since Battletech was introduced. We live in an era where automated counter-battery weapons can respond to hostile artillery fire before the initial shells have even landed. Point is that we may not want things to be too realistic, so we should be cautious when we invoke realism as if it's an inherent a priori trump card.

Quote

But in battletech they have transparasteel so the outside effects add realism. Rain needs to beed of it forcing a thermal view and ballistics leave black smudges if they deflect and don't penetrate. But a defroster should be standard equiptment .

I'd love to see more weather conditions as a way to shake things up. It can be a diceroll at the beginning of each match for all I care. At the very least a little bit of snow or rain on the glass would add to the ambiance.

I may be alone on this but it'd be kind of neat to have to use windshield wipers sometimes.

Edited by Blue Footed Booby, 22 January 2014 - 11:25 AM.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

So far with this new feature.. all it does it gives mechs with ECM something more to hide behind. My longrange skills are completely gone in Forest Colony Snow now 'cause the glass "fogs up" to the point where I can only see red or blue triangles flying around. Anyone with ECM is free to snipe me 'cause I can't see them unless I'm looking at them while they're unloading their weapons.

I enjoyed the feature in Mechwarrior 3 where the window would show signs of damage when receiving headshots but I was still able to see my enemy between the cracks without the gloss or the "sun shining on the dust and dirt" on my window.

With that said.. there should be an option to turn the Window Gloss Effect OFF as not every mechwarrior wants to experience any further "realism" when it comes to enjoying the gameplay.

Tweaks, on 16 September 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

I would like the following effects to be added for better immersion purposes:

• Show the actual thickness of the glass on the edges.
  
• Add some texture to the glass which would show better with light, just like you see dirt on your car's windshield better when the sun is shining through it. The texture could more obvious on the edge, as if dust or wear accumulated there (which would be realistic).
  
• If it rains or you walk under a waterfall, even if there' some sort of water repellent on the glass, you should see some form of droplets on your cockpit windows.
  
• If the cockpit glass takes damage, cracks and scratches should start to appear.
  
• On cold maps, as the 'Mech gets hotter and then cools down, slight frosting should start to show on the edges of the glass until it melts.
  
• On night or dark maps, if your internal cockpit lights are turned on, you should be able to see a dim reflection from the video screens, just like you can see the screen of a GPS reflect in the windshield of a car at night if it's mounted on the glass.

Bottom line, I'd like to feel like I'm behind an actual glass (or whatever that material is) cockpit.

[Tweaks]

RazorbeastFXK3, on 22 January 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

So far with this new feature.. all it does it gives mechs with ECM something more to hide behind. My longrange skills are completely gone in Forest Colony Snow now 'cause the glass "fogs up" to the point where I can only see red or blue triangles flying around. Anyone with ECM is free to snipe me 'cause I can't see them unless I'm looking at them while they're unloading their weapons.

I enjoyed the feature in Mechwarrior 3 where the window would show signs of damage when receiving headshots but I was still able to see my enemy between the cracks without the gloss or the "sun shining on the dust and dirt" on my window.

With that said.. there should be an option to turn the Window Gloss Effect OFF as not every mechwarrior wants to experience any further "realism" when it comes to enjoying the gameplay.

I've tried the new feature out and I don't see any kind of fog. I'm running the game at max settings, is there anything I need to turn on to see that? All I see is some greenish hue to the glass and sometimes I see dim dirt or scratches near the frame when the light shines through, but that's it. I've played in Testing Grounds on multiple cold maps and never noticed any fogging effect.