41 replies to this topic

[Budor]

They see me cappin' they hatin:

[King Picollo]

Mehlan, on 17 September 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

A single, center caps solves that problem.

This is a great idea.

Also leave a couple of people on defence.

Or create an ambush at your base by looking like you've left it abandoned when you're hidden close by. You could smash all the enemy teams lights before the Heavy stuff got close then you have the numbers advantage.

[Training Instructor]

It's always been a stupid mechanic that many people felt was a placeholder for some more developed game mode. Nope.

Several posters are suggesting things that have been suggested before, to add more risk to it:
1) Sensors/Counter-ECM at the base would be fantastic. If it's such an important base that you lose the battle if it gets taken, then there should probably be a few npcs at the base, with a radio, who could shed some light on the composition of the force that's attacking the base.
2) Turrets/Land mines at the base so that a couple of lights will pay for their base capture by actually taking some damage to do it.
3) A single capture point in the middle of the map. Give us something to assault!
4) An in-game monitoring mechanism that gives your credit card details and all of your personal info to Russian/Chinese hackers, while also registering you as a sex offender, if you win more than two matches a day through capping without doing/taking more than 50 points of damage.

Suggestions that don't move this conversation forward in the slightest:
1) Defend your base! - In an environment where you control your entire team, this is a sound strategy. For solo pugging, it's asinine and disingenuous to pretend that it's possible, and in any way fun, trying to herd cats match after match. Also, what's there to defend, exactly? If we had some visual queues that would help convince us that there's something there worth defending, maybe it would help. As it is, there are no people there. If it was important, it would have security guards, turrets, etc. Mechs are not security guards, particularly in ASSAULT mode!
2) Play a light! - What if I don't want to? I like mediums and heavies more, as they fit my playstyle. I'm just not twitchy enough to be a good light pilot, but I'm pretty decent with mediums and heavies. Maybe you should get out of the spider you didn't buy until after their hitboxes broke? I mastered spiders when they first came out, and were reviled for being pointlessly underpowered mechs.
3) Get on voicecoms and play with a team! - I do that sometimes, while other times I simply want to kill some robots after a long day at work, or do a quick match before work, and don't feel like getting on voicecoms. Even with a four man team on voicecoms, if you make the decision to defend the base and keep the lights away, your 8 pugs are at a numerical disadvantage somewhere in the middle of the map against the entire enemy team once their lights decide to double-back and shoot them from behind.
4) Get on voicecoms and run a lance of lights, capping or harassing every game for the lolz! - sort of misses the point, but is surprisingly enjoyable to do it once every couple of weeks for one match. To do it for any longer than that is more or less confirmation of your eunuch status, and I'm sorry that you'll never be able to fully enjoy the comfort of a good woman.

[Ngamok]

Richard Strong, on 16 September 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

The problem isn't lights, the problem is if you don't have any lights you are screwed.

Then stay near base. I say this and I don't follow my own recommendations. I don't care if i get base capped. I just go look for the fights. If the rest of my team wants to stay near base, then I will as well.

SuckyJack, on 16 September 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

You mean that dropping with only SLOW Heavy and Assault Lances is a hindrance? A weakness even?

Fixed because some Heavies are pretty quick.

King Picollo, on 17 September 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

This is a great idea.

Also leave a couple of people on defence.

Or create an ambush at your base by looking like you've left it abandoned when you're hidden close by. You could smash all the enemy teams lights before the Heavy stuff got close then you have the numbers advantage.

Or 1 team attacks and 1 team defends like we've been playing CS for decades.

[Almond Brown]

BarHaid, on 16 September 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

Get off your *** and into a light mech! God knows we need more out there. For a while there it felt like they were making a comeback, but this last month or so, poof!

I feel so alone...

Increased Hit Reg was wanted, gotten, and poof, end of lights as we know it, save the wiry Spider. LOL

Richard Strong, on 16 September 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

I agree with you there but the problem is that good teams get capped by mostly bad teams and 2 or 3 sneaky people. Nobody wants to sit at base waiting for Cappers which is the only option when you don't have enough lights yourself.

I would agree with you if this game had lobbies (crossing fingers that this will happen soon). The way it stands now, if you are not a light, your team might not have any lights.

So a PUG group in a Lobby will have more Lights? Really! Who tells whom to get into said Lights, when said players already arrived in their Heavy or Assault Mechs? You?

Good Luck with that. Oh and you might want to increase the strength of the fire retardant materials in your underpants if you do attempt to be "that guy". The playa's on the Internet just loves "that guy" you know. LOL!

Edited by Almond Brown, 17 September 2013 - 06:55 AM.

[Desdain]

Richard Strong, on 16 September 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

The problem isn't lights, the problem is if you don't have any lights you are screwed.

If you have no lights and lose to a cap, you got what you deserve.

[Bront]

Basecapping isn't the problem. The problem is positioning and the fact that far too many players undervalue speed. Going over 80 isn't a sin, and is tactically useful to help with things like base caps, flanking, and outmaneuvering your opponent.

Seriously, even slower assaults just need to be aware of positioning and make cappers pay.

Mechwarrior isn't supposed to be silly shoot em up mechs, it's a tactical wargame shooter. Base cap is part of this.

And yes, it also serves the point of preventing the single mech shutting down and hiding and making you wait 5-10 minutes to end the match to preserve his precious K/D ratio, though personally I think any mech shut down for over a minute should become a disconnect.

[Lefty Lucy]

Training Instructor, on 17 September 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

Suggestions that don't move this conversation forward in the slightest:
1) Defend your base! - In an environment where you control your entire team, this is a sound strategy. For solo pugging, it's asinine and disingenuous to pretend that it's possible, and in any way fun, trying to herd cats match after match. Also, what's there to defend, exactly? If we had some visual queues that would help convince us that there's something there worth defending, maybe it would help. As it is, there are no people there. If it was important, it would have security guards, turrets, etc. Mechs are not security guards, particularly in ASSAULT mode!

I've been PUGging pretty much exclusively lately, and if you are on a spawn that is easily base capped, this is not that hard to do. I'll use River City as an example. If you are on the drop ship spawn, a lot of players' inclinations are to immediately head over to upper city. However, the lower spawn will more often go lower city. This leads to a cap race.

So what's a simple thing you can do to subvert this? Watch the enemy spawn from the drop ship. If they are going lower, type "enemy team going lower, prepare to defend base." It works every time.

[BarHaid]

Budor, on 17 September 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

They see me cappin' they hatin:

A THOUSAND damage? Yeah, I don't think it's just about the cap win, for you little Jenner.

[Jzaltheral]

SuckyJack, on 16 September 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

You mean that dropping with only Heavy and Assault Lances is a hindrance? A weakness even?

Huh. Who would have thought.

[Shae Starfyre]

This seems like a PUG concern only, as true tactical teams will conduct tactical movement, scouting, etc. to defend their base, attack, and what-not.

If it is a primarily pug concern, in time, as more and more people learn the maps, the flow of the game play, and hopefully with tonnage limits on drops, people will fall into their roles more efficiently.

People on the onset of a game will announce their scouting intentions, and smart heavies/assaults will only ease up slowly to determine the outcome of the scouting (to some extent, I have already noticed this).

I just don't see an issue with the game mode as it is; we just all need to realize how this game was meant to be played, teach others, and then watch the fun happen.

However, I am all for a death match mode, and other modes for that matter.

Edited by Aphoticus, 17 September 2013 - 08:48 AM.

[Fut]

Richard Strong, on 16 September 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

You need need need to implement a Death Match style mode because the vast majority of assault mode players play like it while a small minority revel in ticking off the majority through sneaky Base Captures. This is just one more thing that will frustrate noobs out of the game as they come tomorrow.

Just today I lost 3 games my team was decisively winning because a lack of lights or a couple of dead lights meant the rest of the team couldn't reach the base in time.

"A Win is a Win" the cappers love to say.

Well not when you aren't playing the same game we are. If Cappers really wanted to play that way they should play conquest.

The Devs like to think that Capping adds strategy, well sorry but rock paper scissors is not strategy. If one team decides to play Cap and the other team plays Mechwarrior, game over, CAP beats Mechwarrior.

Nah, they are playing the same game as you. In assault, capturing the base is a viable win condition. It's up to both teams (and all Mechwarriors) to realize this and play the game accordingly. Think of your base as an important component on your Mech - you need to protect it otherwise you will lose easily.

[topgun505]

That's because everyone and their brother are taking their dual or triple UAC5 dakka heavy and assault mechs. When you can singlehandedly shred a fresh Atlas in less than 5 seconds why take anything else? That's balanced right? Lol. Imagine how long an Atlas would last if it didn't have double armor.

Just about the only lights you see are Spiders as people try to take advantage of the invulnerable-mech before its hit boxes get (justifiably) hit with the nerf hammer.

I still take Jenner's but that's cause I'm insane.

Richard Strong, on 16 September 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

I agree with you there but the problem is that good teams get capped by mostly bad teams and 2 or 3 sneaky people. Nobody wants to sit at base waiting for Cappers which is the only option when you don't have enough lights yourself.


I would agree with you if this game had lobbies (crossing fingers that this will happen soon). The way it stands now, if you are not a light, your team might not have any lights.

[Training Instructor]

People take Jenner's because they can mount serious firepower for their weight, and have jj. I've seen way too many average jenner pilots rack up insane numbers due to speed and bad hit detection, and also done it myself, to think there's some magic skill involved in the jenner. If you can hold and move your mousehand steady enough to make jenner lasers have good time on target, you can rock people. This has a lot to do with mouse sensitivity and twitch skills. People who grew up on COD, have a real advantage with this mech.

[Rina Fujimoto]

SuckyJack, on 16 September 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

You mean that dropping with only Heavy and Assault Lances is a hindrance? A weakness even?

You mean we as players can select who we drop with, what mechs they bring and how the matchmaker sets up our team? And whether or not the other team has a 4 man spider team even?

Whoddathunkit! I didn't know they added in this feature! Thanks PGI!

[Void2258]

SuckyJack, on 16 September 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

You mean that dropping with only Heavy and Assault Lances is a hindrance? A weakness even?

You mean we have a lobby where we can go to make sure that we aren't dropping without a single light mech when not playing pre-made 12?

[Richard Strong]

Jestun, on 17 September 2013 - 01:43 AM, said:

It does indeed and I would enjoy that game mode.

But keeping a cap point is the opposite of what the OP is suggesting.

You are right, I wasn't suggesting that, but I think it is a very tidy solution.

[Richard Strong]

Training Instructor, on 17 September 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

It's always been a stupid mechanic that many people felt was a placeholder for some more developed game mode. Nope.

Several posters are suggesting things that have been suggested before, to add more risk to it:
1) Sensors/Counter-ECM at the base would be fantastic. If it's such an important base that you lose the battle if it gets taken, then there should probably be a few npcs at the base, with a radio, who could shed some light on the composition of the force that's attacking the base.
2) Turrets/Land mines at the base so that a couple of lights will pay for their base capture by actually taking some damage to do it.
3) A single capture point in the middle of the map. Give us something to assault!
4) An in-game monitoring mechanism that gives your credit card details and all of your personal info to Russian/Chinese hackers, while also registering you as a sex offender, if you win more than two matches a day through capping without doing/taking more than 50 points of damage.

Suggestions that don't move this conversation forward in the slightest:
1) Defend your base! - In an environment where you control your entire team, this is a sound strategy. For solo pugging, it's asinine and disingenuous to pretend that it's possible, and in any way fun, trying to herd cats match after match. Also, what's there to defend, exactly? If we had some visual queues that would help convince us that there's something there worth defending, maybe it would help. As it is, there are no people there. If it was important, it would have security guards, turrets, etc. Mechs are not security guards, particularly in ASSAULT mode!
2) Play a light! - What if I don't want to? I like mediums and heavies more, as they fit my playstyle. I'm just not twitchy enough to be a good light pilot, but I'm pretty decent with mediums and heavies. Maybe you should get out of the spider you didn't buy until after their hitboxes broke? I mastered spiders when they first came out, and were reviled for being pointlessly underpowered mechs.
3) Get on voicecoms and play with a team! - I do that sometimes, while other times I simply want to kill some robots after a long day at work, or do a quick match before work, and don't feel like getting on voicecoms. Even with a four man team on voicecoms, if you make the decision to defend the base and keep the lights away, your 8 pugs are at a numerical disadvantage somewhere in the middle of the map against the entire enemy team once their lights decide to double-back and shoot them from behind.
4) Get on voicecoms and run a lance of lights, capping or harassing every game for the lolz! - sort of misses the point, but is surprisingly enjoyable to do it once every couple of weeks for one match. To do it for any longer than that is more or less confirmation of your eunuch status, and I'm sorry that you'll never be able to fully enjoy the comfort of a good woman.

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. I like everything you said, especially the Chinese hacker part.

[Richard Strong]

Fut, on 17 September 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

Nah, they are playing the same game as you. In assault, capturing the base is a viable win condition. It's up to both teams (and all Mechwarriors) to realize this and play the game accordingly. Think of your base as an important component on your Mech - you need to protect it otherwise you will lose easily.

I think the vast majority of people play as PUGs, and coordinating as a PUG is HARD. Lately I've been running maxxed out Kintaros with streaks to **** with the lights, but if the base happens to have more than two lights I am screwed and nobody on earth is fast enough to type that to their team without getting killed.

[GRiPSViGiL]

L2Defend