2555 replies to this topic

[Tarzilman]

Quote

your post is incoherent, it's just a bunch of rambling sentences.

It's not and you know it very well. So come on and don't be so illiberal. This whole debate is about what he wrote and just because there's a few pages among over 100 talking about a more specific part unfortunately doesn't mean the rest has become less substantial.

It's also very curious to watch some ppl coming along with shabby explanations why they're still here after someone pointed out that their presence doesn't make sense anymore due to the fact they stopped playing the game or even deinstalled it.

[Lysander Voidrunner]

Myssi, you ARE trying to help people in requesting a refund, right? If you have no knowledge in the field, as you've just admitted, then what business do you even have trying to help them do so? You are, by definition, right now, an agent provocateur. I have no idea why your presence on this forum is even tolerated. You advertize for people to do something that is boderline consumer driven fraud. You offer them your advice on a topic you know nothing about. You then try to keep the moral high ground by feigning ignorance. Do everyone a favour and leave already, it would be better for the community in general if your avoued lack of knowledge in the field stopped helping out because it's only muddying the waters. And the worst part of it is that you're refuting the very words you have written a page back by stating this isn't about the founders pack.

We get it, you're frustrated and you don't like the game. Now put on your big boy pants and get over it.

[Gregory Owen]

Myssi, on 28 September 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Gergory Oewn, where have I talked about chargebacks?
I answered to a message that was specifically looking for a different way to pursue possible refunds other than chargebacks

there is no other option. you spent the money a ******* year ago. IT IS GONE.

[Myssi]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 28 September 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Myssi, you ARE trying to help people in requesting a refund, right? If you have no knowledge in the field, as you've just admitted, then what business do you even have trying to help them do so? You are, by definition, right now, an agent provocateur. I have no idea why your presence on this forum is even tolerated. You advertize for people to do something that is boderline consumer driven fraud. You offer them your advice on a topic you know nothing about. You then try to keep the moral high ground by feigning ignorance. Do everyone a favour and leave already, it would be better for the community in general if your avoued lack of knowledge in the field stopped helping out because it's only muddying the waters. And the worst part of it is that you're refuting the very words you have written a page back by stating this isn't about the founders pack.

We get it, you're frustrated and you don't like the game. Now put on your big boy pants and get over it.

The original comment to which I responded to was about Founders. Mine was about possible ways to further pursue their issue.
Also, what in my text do you consider advertizement, and exactly how is that a fraud? Please elaborate. If they contact either BBB or CPBC with their issue, how is that a fraud? Please explain in more detail, since I do not understand. If it's a fraud, nothing will come out of it and surely it will backfire to the person filing the complaint.
Also, if someone doesn't have knowledge about these things shouldn't they be encouraged to contact somewhere that does? Like BBB or CPBC, so they can get that knowledge? They sure as hell shouldn't be taking advice from you or me in the matter, but from people who deal with customer complaints for their living.
Why are you against people asking for help in their issues? Don't you believe people should be helped if they think they need it? What about those 3rd world countries?

[Novakaine]

Well I think since our loyalty has been rewarded in carrots we all should reciprocate.

[FlipOver]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 28 September 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Myssi [...words...] Do everyone a favour and leave already [...words...]

Just letting all know I don't agree with this, so not everyone, sorry.

[Kaijin]

Love watching the pale nights in feeding frenzy mode, where they start taking bites out of each other.

[DeaconW]

Myssi, on 28 September 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

Why are you against people asking for help in their issues?

The answer to your legitimate question is, "Because the PDF is in full defense mode and the w h i t e k n i g h t s will say anything to defend their 'precious'."

[Tarzilman]

Reminds me of "TADAAAA... it's GONE!" *lol*

[FlipOver]

Kaijin, on 28 September 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

Love watching the pale nights in feeding frenzy mode, where they start taking bites out of each other.

It's actually educational to see what's happening.
Some attack others, insult their moral integrity and even ask them to leave the game and forum, they are different things but then why would one say something like "stop ruining the game" on the forums...?

I'm not even talking about the forum rules here...

But then, we see people asking questions to better understand other people's perspective and answers not being delivered.

Interesting to say the least.

[Gregory Owen]

Myssi, on 28 September 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

The original comment to which I responded to was about Founders. Mine was about possible ways to further pursue their issue.
Also, what in my text do you consider advertizement, and exactly how is that a fraud? Please elaborate. If they contact either BBB or CPBC with their issue, how is that a fraud? Please explain in more detail, since I do not understand. If it's a fraud, nothing will come out of it and surely it will backfire to the person filing the complaint.
Also, if someone doesn't have knowledge about these things shouldn't they be encouraged to contact somewhere that does? Like BBB or CPBC, so they can get that knowledge? They sure as hell shouldn't be taking advice from you or me in the matter, but from people who deal with customer complaints for their living.
Why are you against people asking for help in their issues? Don't you believe people should be helped if they think they need it? What about those 3rd world countries?

The BBB is nothing but a complaint department. they have no government/law affiliation. they simply can give the company a bad mark if you happen to go to there website. a business doesn't even have to deal with the BBB if they don't want to. so there is no way possible they can make a company give you a refund on something you bought last november. I'm pretty positive that even your bank will not do one at this point seeing as it has been a year. the point is you guys need to realize this money is gone and it is petty and shady of you to try to convince your credit card company you didn't receive what you purchased when you did. you bought those 4 mechs. you didn't buy a copy/license for the game, you didn't invest in the company. you paid for 4 hero mechs which were delivered complete and on time. the reason i keep using the word fraud is because that is exactly what it is. you are defrauding a company of the money you gave them on an item you have been using for a year just because they've changed things a bit and other things have been delayed. which everytime you've signed the EULA you've given approval to.

Edited by Gregory Owen, 28 September 2013 - 11:32 AM.

[Novakaine]

DeaconW, on 28 September 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

The answer to your legitimate question is, "Because the PDF is in full defense mode and the w h i t e k n i g h t s will say anything to defend their 'precious'."

PGI Defense Force
Love it.

[Tarzilman]

There's a reason this knight-word got censored. So maybe you stop calling ppl so. They rather are grey knights and definitely aware themselfes of the deficits both the game and the devs have got. But you keep ignoring it on and on.

[Xie Belvoule]

http://www.metacriti...hwarrior-online

A 66....wow....

Well were done here....You white knights can pack it up and go home now, the whole world knows how mediocre this game is now. Your work here is done brave paladins of PGI....

[Myssi]

Gregory Owen, on 28 September 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

The BBB is nothing but a complaint department. they have no government/law affiliation. they simply can give the company a bad mark if you happen to go to there website. a business doesn't even have to deal with the BBB if they don't want to. so there is no way possible they can make a company give you a refund on something you bought last november. I'm pretty positive that even your bank will not do one at this point seeing as it has been a year. the point is you guys need to realize this money is gone and it is petty and shady of you to try to convince your credit card company you didn't receive what you purchased when you did. you bought those 4 mechs. you didn't buy a copy/license for the game, you didn't invest in the company. you paid for 4 hero mechs which were delivered complete and on time. the reason i keep using the word fraud is because that is exactly what it is. you are defrauding a company of the money you gave them on an item you have been using for a year just because they've changed things a bit and other things have been delayed. which everytime you've signed the EULA you've given approval to.

Again, I haven't said anything about calling your bank and telling to redact the payment. Most certainly would not do that myself, nor have I told anyone else to do that. And as far as I know it isn't even possible after this time here where I live.
And why are you telling me what is included to Founders and so on? Still I haven't said a word here about my possible desires for a refund or not wanting a one.
BBB may be just a complaint department. I do not live in Canada or US so I know only the information they provide to me from their website and the same goes for CPBC.

[Gregory Owen]

Myssi, on 28 September 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

Again, I haven't said anything about calling your bank and telling to redact the payment. Most certainly would not do that myself, nor have I told anyone else to do that. And as far as I know it isn't even possible after this time here where I live.
And why are you telling me what is included to Founders and so on? Still I haven't said a word here about my possible desires for a refund or not wanting a one.
BBB may be just a complaint department. I do not live in Canada or US so I know only the information they provide to me from their website and the same goes for CPBC.

I'm informing you, because you are trying to inform or help others and have no clue on what the process is it seems or how it works.

i used the founders mechs as an example because what people payed for is those mechs and they were delivered and by doing a charge back on items they have received and used for almost a year is fraud.

[The Echo Inside]

People may want to look up the definition of "fraud", especially under Canadian law, before falsely accussing others of conducting or participating in it.

Which is here:
http://yourlaws.ca/c...ada/380-fraud-0

It's not possible for players to commit fraud in this exchange. And as much as I'm feeling low about the game/uncertain about it's future, PGI certainly hasn't committed it either.

[Myssi]

Gregory Owen, on 28 September 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

I'm informing you, because you are trying to inform or help others and have no clue on what the process is it seems or how it works.

i used the founders mechs as an example because what people payed for is those mechs and they were delivered and by doing a charge back on items they have received and used for almost a year is fraud.

Very well, I thank you for informing me about the nature of BBB, but I don't see how that changes anything. It is still one way to pursue further your possible issues with companies in US or Canada.
Most certainly I do not encourage chargebacks after all this time, but to pursue the issue through proper channels and accept the outcome from that, for better or worse.

[Gregory Owen]

after alittle research it looks like you can do chargebacks as far back as 1 year old according to california law

http://oag.ca.gov/co...argeback_rights

but it's been over a year since founders sale ended

http://mwomercs.com/...age-on-sale-now

but really if you are hurting so bad that you need that money, you have other issues. Why not do a chargeback on every game you've bought this last year that hasn't lived up to your expectations??

[The Echo Inside]

Gregory Owen, on 28 September 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

after alittle research it looks like you can do chargebacks as far back as 1 year old according to california law

http://oag.ca.gov/co...argeback_rights

but it's been over a year since founders sale ended

http://mwomercs.com/...age-on-sale-now

but really if you are hurting so bad that you need that money, you have other issues. Why not do a chargeback on every game you've bought this last year that hasn't lived up to your expectations??

Californian law has no relation to a Canadian company, or anyone who has the desire to do so, outside of California. Chargebacks are often dictated under the policy agreements of cardholders within the limits (if they exist) for the country and state of that person's residence. Meaning that if it is possible for an individual to do so, it is legal.

However, chargebacks are based on the timeframe as measured by the transfer of funds. There are also additional legal routes, such as the courts or consumer protection agencies, or unofficial agencies such as the BBB, which generally measure the timeframe based on the delivery of the service or goods. In this case, that would be the launch date (effectively considered the "final product" for those purposes).

Things get a bit fuzzy with games and there's still developing case law, because of early access/beta, etc, but it still generally applies. The founders pack included some mutually beneficial early perks/delivery, but that doesn't mean it was considered "delivered" until the launch date.

You can argue about the morality on both sides (as everyone here seems to be doing). But, no player is commiting fraud by pursuing perfectly legal means of dispute. And I don't believe PGI has committed it either.

Edited by The Echo Inside, 28 September 2013 - 12:33 PM.