2555 replies to this topic

[Dymlos2003]

To the people calling everyone is some what positive a {Noble MechWarrior} or pdf is just well sad. Meta you should go outside and get some fresh air

[Gregory Owen]

dymlos2003, on 28 September 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

To the people calling everyone is some what positive a {Noble MechWarrior} or pdf is just well sad. Meta you should go outside and get some fresh air

I think he's about 2 posts from blowing a blood vessel and stroking out on us.

[Tarzilman]

Quote

Love watching the tanned knights in feeding frenzy mode, where they start taking bites out of each other.

Fixed it for you. :-P
@Meta Back: Great show, I'm really enjoying! I'm curious abou, what happens next. Hopefully me and my half-baked english will be part of it!

Edited by Tarzilman, 28 September 2013 - 01:23 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pihoqahiak, on 27 September 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

Because it has worked for them, people still give them money. They haven't been forced to produce anything close to what they initially advertised for this game.

or because they actually USED to listne and communicate back in Closed Beta, before the forums became 100% toxic 10% of the time, usually from rabble rousing disgruntled people who didn't get their way, so would stir up crapstorms with half truths.

Oddly enough, catching Russ, Bryan, Garth or Paul at the Launch in person, they were more than happy to talk details and shop and such. Amazing things can be learned if you aren't being a whining Dbag.

[Jorin Blutfang]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 September 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Oddly enough, catching Russ, Bryan, Garth or Paul at the Launch in person, they were more than happy to talk details and shop and such. Amazing things can be learned if you aren't being a whining Dbag.

Can you give details?

[MonkeyCheese]

All I have to say is wow to the last few pages it seems the last of the islands survivors have ran out of food and the cannibalism has begun.

[Lysander Voidrunner]

If being a so-called PDF for not letting people berate something without any constructive input and a total lack or comprehension of what a business model this develloper and publisher have opted into, then I have no qualms with it. Being called an appeasing pig by communist agitators wasn't such a bad thing in the 1920's so I won't be bothered by made-up monnikers here by rabble rousers here.

As for Consumer Driven Fraud, it's illegal in Canada despite the very broad consumer protection website that's been provided. Buying something, using it for an amount of time and once it's use for them has expired wanting a refund is expressly forbidden, not covered under consumer law because it doesn't affect consumers. It is called Return Fraud. That is why you have a certain amount of time to return the product, it is normally time alotted for you to make normal use and determine if the item is defective or not. A year, however, is far longer than anyone needs to assertain weather the item(s) in question are representative of the sale's initial contractual obligations and if it is defective in any way. After the time passes, and there are no hidden flaws that were hithero undiscovered, there is no reasonable grounds for a refund as it could reasonably constitute return fraud because the consumer implicity agrees to the services and acknowledges that he sees no flaws with the product. Again, to reiterate, the founder's package was sold under the idea of backing the idea of an IP, not the mechanics behind it. There is NO grounds for any kind of refund whatsoever and to want to debate that is akin to throwing a childish temper tantrum. So is calling someone a {definition} with the hopes of humiliating and winning your argument with a quick and oh so witty comment.

You're mad that they included 3PV? You're mad that they didn't spend that time doing something else that would futher your enjoyment? Again, time to grow up. This is a business, the only reason for it to function and to exist is to make money. If they start catering to your ilk, we'll have a great game that too few people would play for it to be viable, with directly translates to . Learn to live with necessary evils. If you want to play a game that satisfies your every craving, I suggest you make one yourself. Right now, I get the feeling that the disgruntled founders were under the impression that since they bought into the founders package it gives them some kind of special priviledges where they can dictate to the devs what is required of the game and how to make it better.

I'm not defending PGI because I'm whatever you chose to call me, I'm not defending their business practice. If I was studio head, heads would have rolled for lack of maps and lack of game modes. What I'm defending them against is unjustified claims under Canadian Law. I don't justify their business decisions, I however, understand them.

3PV is meant to increase the pool of players. It's that simple, if you were head of the project, no matter how much you would hate the mode (as almost everyone does) you would include it because you don't want to close doors to potential consumers. This business model relies on retention, they don't have the luxury of up-front payments. They have to appeal to as many players as possible. And they aren't going to apologize to you or anyone for not making the game of YOUR dreams. I can respect that. It's your choice to play their game, not their responsability to make yours. Again, learn to live with it.

[DeaconW]

Gregory Owen, on 28 September 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

by doing a charge back on items they have received and used IN TESTING A GAME IN BETA for almost a year AND REALIZING THE GAME AND ITEMS ARE NOT WHAT WAS PROMISED UPON GAME LAUNCH is NOT fraud.

Fixed it for you.

Edited by DeaconW, 28 September 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[Lysander Voidrunner]

But they didn't pay for game, that's the crux of the argument. People need to realize that the game is Free-to-play. People don't pay to play the game. In no way-shape-or-form did they pay for the game engine. What they did was more akin to a donation and as a gesture of good will, the devs have given them access to the closed beta and some mechs. This is exactly what they got. This I gave them money therefore I am entitled attitude just doesn't fly. This is the beauty of Kickstarter. You donate, you get a few perks but you don't buy the game, you don't get a licence. Backing a project and buying a game a whole world appart.

[Gregory Owen]

DeaconW, on 28 September 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Fixed it for you.

no you didn't. the fact that it was called "beta" is irrelevent and changes nothing. you're probably not even good enough for it to make a difference anyway.

[DeaconW]

Gregory Owen, on 28 September 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

no you didn't. the fact that it was called "beta" is irrelevent and changes nothing. you're probably not even good enough for it to make a difference anyway.

"Good enough"? To what are you referring?

[Mystere]

MonkeyCheese, on 28 September 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

All I have to say is wow to the last few pages it seems the last of the islands survivors have ran out of food and the cannibalism has begun.

Dang it! What did I miss?

I just took a nap after a great meal of Callos a la Madrileña only to wake up and discover that Edward Scissorhands had a run of the place.

Well, I guess it's time to start preparing Kashkaval fondue and chill the cava. Yum! Yum! I love weekends. Food, wine, gaming, and the thee-letter-word I am not allowed to mention here.

Edited by Mystere, 28 September 2013 - 03:58 PM.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

This is meant to be a piece of advice for Russ and PGI, not a bashing. The next time you're going to have an event, be it business to business, business to employee, business to public you should probably hire some professionals to handle the things you have no understanding about. My wife and I have an event planning business handling hundreds of thousands of dollars for our clients to put on great events and after reading about, listening to people talking about the Launch Event I can safely say that you really needed to hire professionals. Professionals to handle the Event Planning which means hiring the vendors (caterers, security, ushers, etc), doing the timeline, coordinating and to have that event planner leading it. You may shrug it off, but those are the people who make events happen with what seems like no hitches, when in reality it was lots of planning (usually starting a year out) and the Event Planner running around putting out fires in such a manner the public generally has no idea.

If your event looks and runs poorly then that's the impression people are left with. Hire the right people to do the right jobs and you will come out smelling like roses. DON'T call an event planner with 2 weeks to go, the more time you give them to do their jobs the better the event will be. Usually a year in advance you should pick the right event planner and start having meetings to plan the event, then let the planner go out and get the right vendors for the job. After that it's a matter of the Planner keeping things on track and making sure everyone is on the same page leading up to the event. Planners are indispensable assets, and a good one can make your event the one everyone is talking about for the right reasons.

[Stevie Ray Kerensky]

New here, but that Bombadil guy, was he wearing a large Hanna Barberra costume from H. R. Puffinstuff?

Edited by Stevie Ray Kerensky, 28 September 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[Lysander Voidrunner]

Werewolf486, on 28 September 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

This is meant to be a piece of advice for Russ and PGI, not a bashing. The next time you're going to have an event, be it business to business, business to employee, business to public you should probably hire some professionals to handle the things you have no understanding about. My wife and I have an event planning business handling hundreds of thousands of dollars for our clients to put on great events and after reading about, listening to people talking about the Launch Event I can safely say that you really needed to hire professionals. Professionals to handle the Event Planning which means hiring the vendors (caterers, security, ushers, etc), doing the timeline, coordinating and to have that event planner leading it. You may shrug it off, but those are the people who make events happen with what seems like no hitches, when in reality it was lots of planning (usually starting a year out) and the Event Planner running around putting out fires in such a manner the public generally has no idea.

If your event looks and runs poorly then that's the impression people are left with. Hire the right people to do the right jobs and you will come out smelling like roses. DON'T call an event planner with 2 weeks to go, the more time you give them to do their jobs the better the event will be. Usually a year in advance you should pick the right event planner and start having meetings to plan the event, then let the planner go out and get the right vendors for the job. After that it's a matter of the Planner keeping things on track and making sure everyone is on the same page leading up to the event. Planners are indispensable assets, and a good one can make your event the one everyone is talking about for the right reasons.

Having watched the majoirty of the feed, I can only agree with your statement. It did look like a baddly organized and mediocre frat party.

[Xtrekker]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 28 September 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

But they didn't pay for game, that's the crux of the argument. People need to realize that the game is Free-to-play. People don't pay to play the game. In no way-shape-or-form did they pay for the game engine. What they did was more akin to a donation and as a gesture of good will, the devs have given them access to the closed beta and some mechs. This is exactly what they got. This I gave them money therefore I am entitled attitude just doesn't fly. This is the beauty of Kickstarter. You donate, you get a few perks but you don't buy the game, you don't get a licence. Backing a project and buying a game a whole world appart.

No, Russ Bullock himself has been quoted as completely discounting the idea that there was any kickstarter-type funding involved. It was apparently never intended as such, although the community was very apt to justify the ridiculous amount of money spent as something "in support of" PGI's effort. Even with thank you emails stating MWO could not have reached the levels it has without that "support", they later clearly state it was not "support".

In other words, it was goods sold. Consumers have every right to question its value.

...e.g.....

Let's say you decide buy a car. You're interested in a new brand of car, and you really like the designs, at least what's on paper. At the dealership, they offer you an absolutely unique one of a kind, only available one time for our most incredible, faithful customers, "Awesome Red" color and charge through the nose for it. "Seriously kid, you're going to get so much _____ in this Awesome Red car. You really cannot comprehend the value you are getting here, in fact, I can't believe we're even offering it." (True story.) You, being a complete dupe, decide hey, I want to be unique and sure, I really want to support your new car company, and I'd love some _____. You buy the Awesome Red car. A month later they offer a better car, paint it an almost identical color (but a little better) called "Radical Red", and give it some new options that you didn't even know were available. Additionally, the car company decides all these cars they are selling are really just prototypes, and wait a full year before even deciding that in fact it's really a car they are selling in the first place. Now, being an early responder and promised a unique place in history with this amazing car company, you suddenly find that your car is not unique, all prototypes are better than yours, and the honored relationship with the company that you were promised is completely moot, as they decided they didn't really like your type anyway. Oh, and that _____ was less than satisfactory, I tell you.

[Pihoqahiak]

Xie Belvoule, on 28 September 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

http://www.metacriti...hwarrior-online
A 66....wow....
Well were done here....You white knights can pack it up and go home now, the whole world knows how mediocre this game is now. Your work here is done brave paladins of PGI....

I was surprised the rating was even as high as that after reading through the publication reviews. They have very little positive to say in any of the reviews. I think Gaming Trend was being extremely generous to rate it as high as 77 when they write "It’s a bit of a shame that there’s so little reason to keep at MechWarrior Online." in their review of it.

[NocturnalBeast]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 28 September 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

But they didn't pay for game, that's the crux of the argument. People need to realize that the game is Free-to-play. People don't pay to play the game. In no way-shape-or-form did they pay for the game engine. What they did was more akin to a donation and as a gesture of good will, the devs have given them access to the closed beta and some mechs. This is exactly what they got. This I gave them money therefore I am entitled attitude just doesn't fly. This is the beauty of Kickstarter. You donate, you get a few perks but you don't buy the game, you don't get a licence. Backing a project and buying a game a whole world appart.

Although no one is forced to spend money on this game, it is still "fraudulent" to ask for donations for something and then not use the donations for what you want them for. Now don't get me wrong, I am not implying that I was defrauded, I have my founders mechs, I have spent the MC and I still play MWO regularly, even though PGI has made some changes that I am not completely happy with.

[soarra]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 September 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

or because they actually USED to listne and communicate back in Closed Beta, before the forums became 100% toxic 10% of the time, usually from rabble rousing disgruntled people who didn't get their way, so would stir up crapstorms with half truths.

Oddly enough, catching Russ, Bryan, Garth or Paul at the Launch in person, they were more than happy to talk details and shop and such. Amazing things can be learned if you aren't being a whining Dbag.

so we have to travel across the country to get an answer from them?

[Bishop Steiner]

soarra, on 28 September 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

so we have to travel across the country to get an answer from them?

or maybe, try asking nicely?

I recall quite well back in the day, when Paul would host little open houses in the Comstar server. Before the thankless douchery got so deep they gave up.

I give it less than a year for Chris and his Star Citizen crew to start backing off the open communication too, once they miss a few hurdles and the forum turns full toxic. Not saying I agree with PGI's communication stance, and in fact I believe that was one thing that both Garth and Bryan acknowledged they pooched. Just saying as a human being, I can kinda get where getting ratf***** for everything you say gets kinda old.