73 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

Victor Morson, on 19 September 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

It looks like somebody forgot the whole part about "ER PPCs are now much hotter and 4 would be entirely non-viable now" that's centric to this thread. You can barely get away with running 2 at the moment.

speak for yourself. 4ERPPC stalker works great for me.

[Victor Morson]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 19 September 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

speak for yourself. 4ERPPC stalker works great for me.

You can pug with machine guns and get "good numbers." Doesn't mean it's not trash and holy {Scrap} is that ever. 1 Gauss + 2 PPC is better every single day of the week, or 2 Ultra+2 PPC.

Anyway if you're running that fine, then you basically admit Ghost Heat fails as it's job, other than to over-complicate and screw up the game / murder weapons that weren't OP to begin with.

"The Maths" is a monument to failure.

[Corvus Antaka]

Victor Morson, on 19 September 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

You can pug with machine guns and get "good numbers." Doesn't mean it's not trash and holy {Scrap} is that ever. 1 Gauss + 2 PPC is better every single day of the week, or 2 Ultra+2 PPC.

Anyway if you're running that fine, then you basically admit Ghost Heat fails as it's job, other than to over-complicate and screw up the game / murder weapons that weren't OP to begin with.

"The Maths" is a monument to failure.

ok so now ghost heat fails because 4 ERPPC is even possible?

[New Day]

General Taskeen, on 19 September 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

That heat scale that you see, the one from "TT" is how they modeled it in MW3/4/LL, for the most part (minus ammo explosions from heat), so how would that "not work" for MWO? Or am I reading your wording incorrectly.

MWO is the only Mech Warrior game in existence that tried to re-invent the "heat wheel," and its completely stupid.

- Heatsinks that are completely illogical (low disappation, and also raise thresholds, something with 10-12SHS is close to unuseable on any hot map)
- "Ghost Heat"

Well you know MWLL stopped being dveloped because no was playing it.
/sarcasm

And yeah I mostly meant ammo explosions. Although I don't know how would + to fire work for example. And the movement penalties would mostly hurt hit and run mechs (lights, mediums, heavies) more than assaults who stand and fight.

[New Day]

Dimento Graven, on 19 September 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

I'm not saying we need the exact same table from TT brought into the game, but we DO need something other than 0-99% heat capacity, NO RISK, and 100+ finally some risk.

Creating a heat affects table specific to MWO would be a good thing, heck the weapons table while extremely similar to TT DOES have it's differences, so I'd be willing to accept some differences between MWO and the original heat affects table, just as long as there's something there that doesn't allow every pilot to disregard heat.

If you want to fire 4 to 6 PPC's all at the same time, fine, BUT, the punishment shouldn't be phantom heat from no where, it should be that while you're at that high heat, your 'mech is slower, you can't aim, you risk ammo explosions, and/or red/gray/black outs, et al.

The fact that you could fire so many PPC's so many times as fast they could refresh, with little to no risk to yourself was what the problems were. Think about it this way, if that 4 to 6 PPC stalker, or 2ER PPC/Gauss pop-tart had to worry that after they shot, they couldn't see, aim the next shot or be able to move out of the open to avoid retaliation, you darn well know they'd have been shooting a lot less often, thus a natural balance could have been achieved WITHOUT inventing heat from nowhere...

I liked the MW4 system. Sometimes you didn't even have to look at the scale to know your heat (not that the penalties were debilitating or anything).

[Gaan Cathal]

NamesAreStupid, on 19 September 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

Well you know MWLL stopped being dveloped because no was playing it.
/sarcasm

And yeah I mostly meant ammo explosions. Although I don't know how would + to fire work for example. And the movement penalties would mostly hurt hit and run mechs (lights, mediums, heavies) more than assaults who stand and fight.

For the record, most of those who want a direct-from-tabletop translation of the heat scale also want a direct translation of an Atlas being ten times better than a Spider because because. Whilst some level of mech capability degradation with heat is not necessarily a terrible idea, a direct cut-and-paste of the heat scale won't work any better than a direct cut-and-paste of the Battle Value system (inb4 "it's worked for 30 years!").


For what it's worth, heat-wise, the massive increase in capacity and reduction in relative dissipation is far, far more responsible for the alpha-centric nature of the game, and a lot of it's problems, than a fuzzy hud when you warm up. Halved, or even static, capacity and proportionally increased dissipation would solve a huge amount of the issues with MW:O (although yes, it would require a fair amount of rebalancing after introduction, I'm aware).

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 19 September 2013 - 10:32 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 19 September 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

ok so now ghost heat fails because 4 ERPPC is even possible?

It fails because it does nothing to curtail Alphas, and everything to screw up non-problem weapons in the most illogical way ever.

[Karl Streiger]

Have no problem if Ghost Heat is removed - with a system in place that does the same - reduce the ammount of fire power a Mech can throw in an instant at a target.
Just removing Ghost Heat - will simple return the Splash Cats or Boom Jaegers - that are still viable builds if you are able to track your target for more than 0.6sec.

[Orkhepaj]

what is exactly ghost heat do?

[Strayed]

Hmm then we'll see a poll in another month demanding we bring it back due to Jagerbombs and 6 PPC Stalkers running rampant? No thanks, could be tweaked however. Convergence is one thing that probably needs looked at next, maybe just so weapons like pulse lasers are very convergent to make them more viable.

[Oppi]

Balance is better than ever before in this game, I see no reason to remove Ghost Heat. It does what it's supposed to do.

[Regionsepia]

Remove ghost heat and
(i) start stacking increasing damage if you repeatedly overheat to shutdown. ie. first time you overheat = 10% chance of ammo cooking off. 10th time you overheat = 50% chance of engine just exploding

or

(ii) have the same mechanic, but based on how much excess heat you've produced. ie, overheat cos you fired one more ML shot = 10% chance of ammo cooking off. Overheat from firing a 5 PPC alpha = you blow up.

[Hythos]

Regionsepia, on 20 September 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Remove ghost heat and
(i) start stacking increasing damage if you repeatedly overheat to shutdown. ie. first time you overheat = 10% chance of ammo cooking off. 10th time you overheat = 50% chance of engine just exploding

or

(ii) have the same mechanic, but based on how much excess heat you've produced. ie, overheat cos you fired one more ML shot = 10% chance of ammo cooking off. Overheat from firing a 5 PPC alpha = you blow up.

I would love to see things like critical hits to actuators, engines, gyros, life support and sensors...
Extreme heat should still cause damage to the pilot, but likely won't, because the low-IQ FPS players won't understand it.

[TychoTheItinerant]

Ghost heat should be removed, but PGI won't listen. Someone should take the Mechwarrior franchise away from them.