183 replies to this topic

[bloodnor]

TAKE AWAY THE ARMOUR ON ASSAULTS AND HEAVIES AND THERE BIG WEAPONS ITS NOT FAIR. just stick in an LBX and sweep the legs with you lazors and get on with it...

[Clit Beastwood]

Aphoticus, on 20 September 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

I do not agree with some of this; I have over 900 games in a Lyr Muromet with a 200 std engine; with efficiencies, that is 50kph, and can you imagine the torso twist?!?

I can bear down on a light, even when they engage me in the open all by my little lonesome.

It is about anticipating their movement characteristics, maintaining fire discipline, and not getting caught up in the circle race (you have to twist, turn the other direction, and mix it up).

Yes, it is difficult, and when spectating others, it looks to me to be their mouse sensativity is too high causing them to eratically try to aim.

Also, I notices that people never lead their shots, it always looks like they are on the trailing end of the light when firing, and at best, especially with lasers, they merely get touches by the weapons.

and Spider hit boxes are not the problem, they are just small slivers in comparison to everything else (aim small).

Net code is prevalent for ALL mechs, it affects everything on the battle field. The only reason that it appears worse with the spider is because of the size of the stupid thing.

I am not sure what the piloting issue is, that most people are not observing the interaction between the lights and their aiming and utilizing proper alignment, before firing.

What would really help it is, in game training that forces you to "qualify" with various mech chassis. 1. You HAVE to start in a light. 2. You *graduate* to a medium, etc.

I've met a lot of players that started, saved up money by running whatever assault mech is available as a trial mech... and buying an atlas as a first mech. These same people are often the ones that complain about nerfing light mechs, as they've never driven one. If you drive one, and use a sensible loadout (aka, don't load up for one click kills, you need at least a few lasers or a shotgun for lights).. and remember DONT BE ALONE, you shouldn't have too much trouble. Sure, a Jenner F can still core you out in maybe one alpha to your rear torso... but you should have a teammate nearby... right? A spider can zip around or circle you... but you made sure you have a teammate nearby, right? For overlapping fields of fire? Anybody?

[TychoTheItinerant]

The problem is NOT with light mechs' celerity, it is with complete and total lack of team coordination and defined roles. Every dumb ************ on the battlefield plays like a lone-wolf or like this is single-player MechWarrior where you had your slavishly loyal AI lancemates to run interference for you. We need far, far better coordination and specialization of player/mech roles, and a greater focus on "PLAY TEAM-SMART" instead of individualists off to rack up damage and killcounts. Too many people play this game like they're playing single-player MWO.

Also, the way teams are organized for dropping does not help at all.

Edited by TychoTheItinerant, 20 September 2013 - 12:22 PM.

[Clit Beastwood]

DI3T3R, on 20 September 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

You sure? A Mech is about 10m high, now compare that to the mental image you have of a Spider running around. Make it 20m.

There are reasons, why no walking creature or machine can get that fast: They will eventually loose grip in a curve and start skidding.

If they want to offer a Mech-simulator, they better take the size of the Mechs into account.

SPIDER DONUTS ARE OP!

[Victor Morson]

ssm, on 20 September 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

Sadly, "issues" you mention (speed & agility) are only things keeping lights viable.

And the only thing keeping pulse lasers and streaks in business, too.

[Vodrin Thales]

Kyone Akashi, on 20 September 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

The problem is that the "fair" version will, and I am rather convinced of this due to prior experiences, make Light-piloting extremely frustrating because a number of players will just rush and immobilize you rather than committing to a fight.

With the "one-sided" version of only 'Mechs of heavier weight classes being able to do so, the pilot has at least a good chance of evading them - something that is not nearly as possible if your opponent pilots a Light too. Blind spots and turning speed will see you knocked down, shortly followed by the "Incoming Missiles" warning, shortly followed by destroyed components.

I'm not sure if you played when the knockdown feature was still in game, but it was getting really bad in the 1-2 weeks before it was taken out. It simply turned out to be the easiest way to destroy the other team's Lights - send your own Lights to topple them, commence missile barrage, "gg"

As I said, I'd rather have Light gameplay remain focused on actual fighting.

Look, knockdowns in general are bad because they are a form of "CC". That is, a way of preventing someone from moving or controlling their "unit" in game, in this case a mech. As I said previously, one of the best things about MWO is that it does not have this sort of thing in the game.

[Mcgral18]

Going 150 isn't really the problem, it's the hit detection on the spider thats the biggest problem, and second is the lack of penalties for running hot. If jenners couldn't keep going 151 when at 60-80% heat, they couldn't keep running after a fleeing light. A proper heatscale with movement penalties would help with that.

I think rethinked pilot efficiencies would be nice, instead of increasing the speed 10%, why not increase the maximum engine capacity by X amount. You can still go faster, you you'll need to drop ammo, armor or weapons in order to get that speed. A fair trade off. Or removed speedtweak entirely, but I'm not sure if PGI will do that.

[John Buford]

DI3T3R, on 20 September 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

It's not the speed. It's the tight curves they can run.

151 kph = 42 m/s

If a Spider runs a curve with a 10 meter radius at that speed, the pilot is subjected to a = v²/r = 176 m/s² = 17.6g

Congratulations! Your pilot is dead (because anything above 10g is lethal to the human body) and the centrifugal force has the Mech skidding and crashing uncontrollably through the landscape. (Unless it's in MWO...)

Actualy not even close. Lights take much more than 10m or even the 20m you say later on to turn around. Range doesn't look quite right because we are in giant robots so what you percive as 10-20m is probly close to 100m. When a light does doe that turn on a dime they have either jump turned or kill the throttle to turn tighter.

[Deathlike]

Why hasn't this discussion referenced the Goons <3 Paul vid?

That's reason #1 for not wanting a terribad knockdown system in place.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 20 September 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

Why hasn't this discussion referenced the Goons <3 Paul vid?

That's reason #1 for not wanting a terribad knockdown system in place.

Also, the video of that Dragon chain-knocking a Hunchback in the Frozen City cave for about 5 minutes straight until it finally dies.

[Deathlike]

A reminder of MWO's past:

[OneEyed Jack]

Orkhepaj, on 20 September 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

yup maybe they would need teamplay/medium mechs to eliminate light mechs, that would totally ruin mwo

btw a soloing assault shouldnt have much chance vs 2+ lights

First of all, yes, it should have a chance. No, it shouldn't be an automatic win, but a front-line combat unit should definitely always have at least a reasonable chance against 2 support/scout units.

Second, if you can't read well enough to keep up with the discussion, then don't try to argue with it. He suggested that an Assault should be able to turn fast enough to shoot at a single Light, which would make it an automatic victory for the Light.

Third, how many times to you have to be dropped on your head as a baby to actually think that Lights/Meds should require team play to kill, but Heavies and Assaults should be solo-able by them?

[Vassago Rain]

FupDup, on 20 September 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Also, the video of that Dragon chain-knocking a Hunchback in the Frozen City cave for about 5 minutes straight until it finally dies.

Things were so much easier back then.

[Mehlan]

Quote

Third, how many times to you have to be dropped on your head as a baby to actually think that Lights/Meds should require team play to kill, but Heavies and Assaults should be solo-able by them?

A light can kill a light,SOLO med's can kill a light... SOLO... Heck a heavy or an assault with a decent pilot can kill a light solo. There's no 'team' requirement to kill one, just some brain usage and skill. Much like it takes some brain usage and skill for a light to solo an assault and/or heavy... However it's going to take that light a lot longer to solo that heavy or assault than it would that heavy or assault to solo that light. The H or A pilot makes a mistake, they've got time...the light pilot makes a mistake, they're dead... Heck 2 lights vs a 'front line' unit that FL still has a 'chance'.... and a lot better odds than a light vs two FLs.

OP's complaint seems to come from lack of skill not any valid issue with game mechanics.

Edited by Mehlan, 20 September 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[Clit Beastwood]

OneEyed Jack, on 20 September 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

First of all, yes, it should have a chance. No, it shouldn't be an automatic win, but a front-line combat unit should definitely always have at least a reasonable chance against 2 support/scout units.

Second, if you can't read well enough to keep up with the discussion, then don't try to argue with it. He suggested that an Assault should be able to turn fast enough to shoot at a single Light, which would make it an automatic victory for the Light.

Third, how many times to you have to be dropped on your head as a baby to actually think that Lights/Meds should require team play to kill, but Heavies and Assaults should be solo-able by them?

Give 2 marines pistols, dress a toddler up in armor and give him a pair of shotguns. Who's gonna win? Marines or the toddler?

[GMAK]

Orkhepaj, on 20 September 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Nerf speed on light mechs, or make them behave more realistically.

They accelerate way too quickly and due to their insane speed and if the terrain is not 100% flat then mech jumping around like randomly and pretty much impossible to aim them. If they are closer you cant even keep them in target enough to get a lock for ssrm ,that just says all , when the weapon which should counter these little mechs are just impossilbe to fire.
This is clearly a physics problem , they just move irrealistically, handle turns what a sport car couldnt do,and the vertical movement is just completly broken.

And you can clearly see the problem when these light mech just run off lrm-s ... why?

The game engine clearly cant handle those ultra fast mechs--> lower their speed to manageable lvl.

Yeah you want to make light mech viable , but they shouldnt have insane survivablity due to broken speed and support pretty good dps like 6 lasers at the same time...
Make them scouts ,what they should be not fighters.

Disagree, ligh mech are balanced.

[Ghost_19Hz]

So... I don't care either way about lights, just the spider really but basically saying, "its not OP you just need to 2on1 it?" are you guys listening to yourselves?

Also, having dragons erroneously calculated as 100 ton mechs in past patches is "reason #1 for not wanting knockdown back"?
Knockdown being taken out of gameplay only makes for dumbed down gameplay.

[Foxfire]

Orkhepaj, on 20 September 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Nerf speed on light mechs, or make them behave more realistically.

They accelerate way too quickly and due to their insane speed and if the terrain is not 100% flat then mech jumping around like randomly and pretty much impossible to aim them. If they are closer you cant even keep them in target enough to get a lock for ssrm ,that just says all , when the weapon which should counter these little mechs are just impossilbe to fire.
This is clearly a physics problem , they just move irrealistically, handle turns what a sport car couldnt do,and the vertical movement is just completly broken.

And you can clearly see the problem when these light mech just run off lrm-s ... why?

The game engine clearly cant handle those ultra fast mechs--> lower their speed to manageable lvl.

Yeah you want to make light mech viable , but they shouldnt have insane survivablity due to broken speed and support pretty good dps like 6 lasers at the same time...
Make them scouts ,what they should be not fighters.

Light mechs are already nerfed by a speed cap. What more do you want?

[RandomLurker]

Their speed is fine. Their size (spider, commando) needs to be increased. Seriously, a Quickdraw (60 tons) is 4 times the size of a spider (30 tons).

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

RandomLurker, on 20 September 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Their speed is fine. Their size (spider, commando) needs to be increased. Seriously, a Quickdraw (60 tons) is 4 times the size of a spider (30 tons).

Eh, sorry mate, but you're wrong. It's Quickdraw that needs a slight decrease in size.