183 replies to this topic

[Why Run]

Sounds like not a single one of you played MW1-4 (I still have the damn PC game boxes for those suckers). I don't recall a single light mech that could down an assault class mech as easily as in this game. Lights played their role as scouts. Long vision, target assist, enemy movement. Not every class is a fighter. As it stands now, there is next to no penalty for slamming a light mech, mostly the spider, into a group of ANYTHING. A 30 ton, lightly armored mech should fall apart from a few blasts. Period. Thats why there are classes. This isn't everyone's a 50 ton mech, mechwarrior.

Light's should focus on avoiding contact and revealing where the enemy goes. It's almost like saying an armored car should have the same damage resistance as an M1 tank. Not quite. It's just silly to sit here and watch folks defend a mech 1/3 the size as if they should be equal brawlers on the battle field.

Edited by Why Run, 21 September 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[nehebkau]

Kunae, on 21 September 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

It's an accepted fact that this exists, and I'm not going to rehash the whole thing for your uninquisitive (sic) edification. Tons of threads about it, find em and read em.

yes, yes, yes, yes...tons of threads about people who can't hit things or who have a 200ms ping, not hitting a light moving fast and whose operator has a 40ms ping. It's the internet -- consistency is something you can't achieve. None the less here are some statistics: (all PUG matches btw and represent the BEST light mech statistics I have so you can see that i am an average pilot.)



Mech' Matches Wins Losses Ratio Kills Deaths Ratio Damage DXP EarneTime Pla
JENNER J 407 218 189 1.15 248 232 1.07 99,025 322,3461 day 17
RAVEN RV 96 56 40 1.4 57 54 1.06 22,404 88,382 9:36:37
SPIDER S 58 32 25 1.28 19 18 1.06 9,306 35,958 6:49:10
SPIDER S 112 57 55 1.04 48 43 1.12 20,786 81,10311:56:59
SPIDER S 106 50 54 0.93 46 55 0.84 14,955 53,68610:22:15
KINTARO 247 126 120 1.05 215 160 1.34 93,789 155,28323:43:54


As you will see a lot of kills and being killed on those light mechs. Looks like the light mechs are getting hit and killed, for me, as often (best case) as I am being killed. One way I try to avoid damage is by moving randomly to try to spread out damage all over my mech. That means I am not going to let your UAC15 hit my chest over and over, rather hit a leg here, torso here, arm here..etc etc. So yes, I am soaking up a lot of damage (all over my mech). It means I have 200 armor to work with in spreading out damage so no, unless you are a lucky {republican} you aren't going to 1-shot me no matter how much you want it.

Second, the OP claims he can't get an SSRM lock cause they are so fast... well the last item in the list is the KTO-18 which is equiped with 5 SSRMs and a couple of lasers. Almost all of it's kills are against light mechs and I don't have a problem locking onto them at all.

So to sum up:
1. Light mechs can be killed easilly.
2. Light mechs can more easily spread out damage all over their body
3. Light mechs can be locked onto with SRMs by the right mech and/or a skilled pilot
4. Hitting something that is moving fast and chaotically is hard.
5. It takes pilot skill (and sometimes luck) to kill a light in a big, slow, clompy-clompy mech. Unlike other heavy mechs, lights wont stand there and let you shoot at them.
6. Its the internet, bad connections happen and are not the mech, other player or PGI's fault. If you have ISP issues you need to deal with it. If you want perfect connectivity -- host a LAN party.
7. Anecdotal 'evidence' does not make things the truth.
8. If you don't like lights, suit up a light-killer medium and make them pay.

Frankly, I am tired of the QQing atlas' saying (stand still! stop shooting me in the back!) <-- probably unnecessary.
So, if there is no way that a light should be able to kill an assault then it falls to reason:

There is no way a submarine should be able to kill an aircraft carrier.
There is no way a PT boat should be able to kill a battleship
There is no way a fighter should be able to kill a bomber.
There is no way an infantry should be able to kill a tank.

Edited by nehebkau, 21 September 2013 - 11:44 AM.

[Mehlan]

Quote

Sounds like not a single one of you played MW1-4 (I still have the damn PC game boxes for those suckers). I don't recall a single light mech that could down an assault class mech as easily as in this game. Lights played their role as scouts. Long vision, target assist, enemy movement. Not every class is a fighter. As it stands now, there is next to no penalty for slamming a light mech, mostly the spider, into a group of ANYTHING. A 30 ton, lightly armored mech should fall apart from a few blasts. Period. Thats why there are classes. This isn't everyone's a 50 ton mech, mechwarrior.

Light's should focus on avoiding contact and revealing where the enemy goes. It's almost like saying an armored car should have the same damage resistance as an M1 tank. Not quite. It's just silly to sit here and watch folks defend a mech 1/3 the size as if they should be equal brawlers on the battle field.

GEnie mechjock, so yes... mw1-4, each game was different. How many of those didn't have auto-death when you lost both legs? Do you see that in MWO?
No one has said anything along the lines demonstrated by your ludicrous example... lights run into groups they get damaged and often die. (Now lets go with your out there style example style) You however seems to think that the M1 tank in your example should be as speedy and agile as a sport quad. Take that quad, load it with anti-tank weaponry and tell us it shouldn't be able to do anything to that M1. What happens then, it comes to pilot skill and accuracy and terrain.

[PEEFsmash]

Belphegore, on 21 September 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

Expect more of this, a LOT more.. now that the dumbing down of the game is bringing in the COD / console players. For the record i'm levelling spiders now and consider myself a pretty decent light pilot making use of terrain / jumpjets to strafe targets and avoid incoming fire, yet other players still have no issues damaging me if i screw up and leave myself open to return fire.

Lights are fine.

I agree with you, but I think you are right for the wrong reasons. "COD/Console players" are not the ones complaining. The people complaining are old (as in, borderline-elderly) battletech fans who simply aren't good at video games, hate serious competition, etc. I welcome console shooting players to come into this game, because typically they posess at least an adequate ability to aim and self-position because they have been playing shooting games since they were very young.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 21 September 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[Why Run]

Mehlan, on 21 September 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

GEnie mechjock, so yes... mw1-4, each game was different. How many of those didn't have auto-death when you lost both legs? Do you see that in MWO?
No one has said anything along the lines demonstrated by your ludicrous example... lights run into groups they get damaged and often die. (Now lets go with your out there style example style) You however seems to think that the M1 tank in your example should be as speedy and agile as a sport quad. Take that quad, load it with anti-tank weaponry and tell us it shouldn't be able to do anything to that M1. What happens then, it comes to pilot skill and accuracy and terrain.

Load it with anti-tank weapons... Goodness, it's the Call of Duty generation. An RPG from the back of a quad-sport will not disable an M1. Try again. Which atlas is "speedy?". When did i say anything about speed? I said lights should be fast scouts. but not invincible fast scouts carrying tons of weapons. I guess it's just a realization that this game is a product of the call of duty gen, and the old games we had are long gone. Personally, I would bump all damage back up, and make running out into the open fatal, like it should be.

[Kunae]

nehebkau, on 21 September 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

yes, yes, yes, yes...tons of threads about people who can't hit things or who have a 200ms ping, not hitting a light moving fast and whose operator has a 40ms ping. It's the internet -- consistency is something you can't achieve. None the less here are some statistics: (all PUG matches btw and represent the BEST light mech statistics I have so you can see that i am an average pilot.)



Mech' Matches Wins Losses Ratio Kills Deaths Ratio Damage DXP EarneTime Pla
JENNER J 407 218 189 1.15 248 232 1.07 99,025 322,3461 day 17
RAVEN RV 96 56 40 1.4 57 54 1.06 22,404 88,382 9:36:37
SPIDER S 58 32 25 1.28 19 18 1.06 9,306 35,958 6:49:10
SPIDER S 112 57 55 1.04 48 43 1.12 20,786 81,10311:56:59
SPIDER S 106 50 54 0.93 46 55 0.84 14,955 53,68610:22:15
KINTARO 247 126 120 1.05 215 160 1.34 93,789 155,28323:43:54


As you will see a lot of kills and being killed on those light mechs. Looks like the light mechs are getting hit and killed, for me, as often (best case) as I am being killed. One way I try to avoid damage is by moving randomly to try to spread out damage all over my mech. That means I am not going to let your UAC15 hit my chest over and over, rather hit a leg here, torso here, arm here..etc etc. So yes, I am soaking up a lot of damage (all over my mech). It means I have 200 armor to work with in spreading out damage so no, unless you are a lucky {republican} you aren't going to 1-shot me no matter how much you want it.

Second, the OP claims he can't get an SSRM lock cause they are so fast... well the last item in the list is the KTO-18 which is equiped with 5 SSRMs and a couple of lasers. Almost all of it's kills are against light mechs and I don't have a problem locking onto them at all.

So to sum up:
1. Light mechs can be killed easilly.
2. Light mechs can more easily spread out damage all over their body
3. Light mechs can be locked onto with SRMs by the right mech and/or a skilled pilot
4. Hitting something that is moving fast and chaotically is hard.
5. It takes pilot skill (and sometimes luck) to kill a light in a big, slow, clompy-clompy mech. Unlike other heavy mechs, lights wont stand there and let you shoot at them.
6. Its the internet, bad connections happen and are not the mech, other player or PGI's fault. If you have ISP issues you need to deal with it. If you want perfect connectivity -- host a LAN party.
7. Anecdotal 'evidence' does not make things the truth.
8. If you don't like lights, suit up a light-killer medium and make them pay.

Frankly, I am tired of the QQing atlas' saying (stand still! stop shooting me in the back!) <-- probably unnecessary.
So, if there is no way that a light should be able to kill an assault then it falls to reason:

There is no way a submarine should be able to kill an aircraft carrier.
There is no way a PT boat should be able to kill a battleship
There is no way a fighter should be able to kill a bomber.
There is no way an infantry should be able to kill a tank.

Why are you responding to my post as if you're disagreeing with me? You're agreeing with me.

[Dreamslave]

gavilatius, on 20 September 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

i think they need to clean up the netcode so that 30 point laser alpha to the face does more than scratch the paint job.

I also think that we need a training area to teach people how to kill lights effectively
also to teach players team discipline
fire discipline

and not all go after that spider with you assault mech, there is a reason light and medium mechs exist

to kill light mechs

That's hardly true. The Jenner is the more feared out of the two since it can sport a tremendously damaging loadout while still keepings it's JJ's which give it the crazy lag-shield-crappy-hitbox thing.

[PEEFsmash]

Dreamslave, on 21 September 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

That's hardly true. The Jenner is the more feared out of the two since it can sport a tremendously damaging loadout while still keepings it's JJ's which give it the crazy lag-shield-crappy-hitbox thing.

You mean that thing you have no evidence for? Show me a video.

[Dreamslave]

PEEFsmash, on 21 September 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

You mean that thing you have no evidence for? Show me a video.

Maybe if you actually played the game on a higher level of skill you'd see how Jenner's have been dominating top tier for many months now. Try your best to get up there!

[Mehlan]

Quote

Load it with anti-tank weapons... Goodness, it's the Call of Duty generation. An RPG from the back of a quad-sport will not disable an M1. Try again. Which atlas is "speedy?". When did i say anything about speed? I said lights should be fast scouts. but not invincible fast scouts carrying tons of weapons. I guess it's just a realization that this game is a product of the call of duty gen, and the old games we had are long gone. Personally, I would bump all damage back up, and make running out into the open fatal, like it should be.

Reading comprehension, work on it... but then i believe you were the one that stated the spider is 'broken' and 'unhittable' but because you know how to 'aim' you were able to kill it. :-). Explain the LOGIC behind that... Precisely how was it then that the 'unhittable', 'broken' spider lasted mere seconds on that pass through? What was the damage? Left Torso destroyed, No armor on front or rear center torso, no armor on the right leg. Right arm, torso and left leg armor were all orange....and the spider did... oooh, 44pts damage.


p.s. I predate D&D, so you can figure out what to do with your 'Call of Duty generation' bs.

[PEEFsmash]

Dreamslave, on 21 September 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Maybe if you actually played the game on a higher level of skill you'd see how Jenner's have been dominating top tier for many months now. Try your best to get up there!

.....Do you know who you're talking to? You really want to tell me something about Jenners and top-level competition? You really want to compare competitive success?

I respect the best players in The Templars and have high respect for them, but you are giving them a bad name here. Talk to your good pilots and they will tell you you're barking up the wrong tree acting like you know something about "domination of top-tier" or "higher skill level" that DV8 doesn't.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 21 September 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[Why Run]

I can aim, that's how I hit you. Shocker I know, and yet, I too will admit they are broken. I have 11 mechs, I will not buy a spider, and I will not use a spider, because they are broken. Keep pretending they aren't. Lets just do away with classes, and ignore the entire point of different tiers of mechs so the "run and gun" (lag abusers) can have their fun.

If you're from the pre-COD generation, you should hate what these games have become. Mechwarrior was slow, careful plodding across a map, using scouts to pick the right path. The team that chose wrong, or didn't have scouts, generally lost as it would get flanked and torched. Instead, we have light mechs slamming into everything in the game, over and over and over, without much damage. It takes extreme luck or skill to down them, even if you make contact.

[Gaan Cathal]

Why Run, on 21 September 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

Load it with anti-tank weapons... Goodness, it's the Call of Duty generation. An RPG from the back of a quad-sport will not disable an M1. Try again. Which atlas is "speedy?". When did i say anything about speed? I said lights should be fast scouts. but not invincible fast scouts carrying tons of weapons. I guess it's just a realization that this game is a product of the call of duty gen, and the old games we had are long gone. Personally, I would bump all damage back up, and make running out into the open fatal, like it should be.

Then the RPG isn't an anti-tank weapon is it you muppet? It's not like it would suddenly be more able to damage an M1 if you mounted it on a halftrack, or a tank. The point being made is that the weapons light mechs carry are capable of damaging assault mechs, by virtue of being the same weapons, and all mechs having ablative armour. Ergo, the only difference is payload and speed.

And if you think lights right now are invincible super-speedy death-laden monsters, you need to not say things like this:

Dreamslave, on 21 September 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Maybe if you actually played the game on a higher level of skill you'd see how Jenner's have been dominating top tier for many months now. Try your best to get up there!

To people who top the tourneys in the Light Mech categories, it just makes you look foolish.

[Mehlan]

Quote

I can aim, that's how I hit you. Shocker I know, and yet, I too will admit they are broken. I have 11 mechs, I will not buy a spider, and I will not use a spider, because they are broken. Keep pretending they aren't. Lets just do away with classes, and ignore the entire point of different tiers of mechs so the "run and gun" (lag abusers) can have their fun.

If you're from the pre-COD generation, you should hate what these games have become. Mechwarrior was slow, careful plodding across a map, using scouts to pick the right path. The team that chose wrong, or didn't have scouts, generally lost as it would get flanked and torched. Instead, we have light mechs slamming into everything in the game, over and over and over, without much damage. It takes extreme luck or skill to down them, even if you make contact.

I don't claim I love it, I have yet to state that PGI has done a good/excellent job.... but what i've also done and have been doing is trying to figure out what is causing the issues, because it does not appear to be the mech itself. Let me repeat that, there is not evidence that the SPIDER is broken. IF the spider was 'broken' as you claim...regardless of your 'aim' it would not have died as quick and easily as it did.... and the same thing would happen in EACH AND EVERY MATCH. Look at post #150, at the damage report again... where exactly did 'unhittable' come into play?


You're not 'admitting' anything... if your own words

Quote

I will not buy a spider, and I will not use a spider

How can you know anything about it if you don't have and refuse to pilot one? Your use of the word 'admitting' is nothing but an abuse of semantics in order to bolser a claim with no substance.

Edited by Mehlan, 21 September 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[Drehl]

well.. I've mastered spiders, ravens and jenners.. atm I'm leveling my commandos.

maybe the spider is not as "broken" as stated by many players.. but nevertheless it is much more forgiving (regarding postitioning and movement) than any other light... period.

I can do things and get out alive in this spider which I would not even dream of in any of the other lights...

Edited by Drehl, 21 September 2013 - 12:36 PM.

[Why Run]

Mehlan, on 21 September 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

I don't claim I love it, I have yet to state that PGI has done a good/excellent job.... but what i've also done and have been doing is trying to figure out what is causing the issues, because it does not appear to be the mech itself. Let me repeat that, there is not evidence that the SPIDER is broken. IF the spider was 'broken' as you claim...regardless of your 'aim' it would not have died as quick and easily as it did.... and the same thing would happen in EACH AND EVERY MATCH. Look at post #150, at the damage report again... where exactly did 'unhittable' come into play?

You cannot point to a single picture and suggest one game shows it's not broken. I've played literally hundreds, and it's damn laughable to see lights running around in a circle of med+ mechs, taking blast after blast. That was NEVER the intention! NEVER! If thats where this games going, perhaps, I simply wrong to hope this was a reboot of a classic franchise.

[DEMAX51]

Dreamslave, on 21 September 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Maybe if you actually played the game on a higher level of skill you'd see how Jenner's have been dominating top tier for many months now. Try your best to get up there!

LOL - you have no idea how ignorant this statement makes you sound.

[Gaan Cathal]

Why Run, on 21 September 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

You cannot point to a single picture and suggest one game shows it's not broken. I've played literally hundreds, and it's damn laughable to see lights running around in a circle of med+ mechs, taking blast after blast. That was NEVER the intention! NEVER! If thats where this games going, perhaps, I simply wrong to hope this was a reboot of a classic franchise.

Footage?

[PEEFsmash]

Why Run, on 21 September 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

You cannot point to a single picture and suggest one game shows it's not broken. I've played literally hundreds, and it's damn laughable to see lights running around in a circle of med+ mechs, taking blast after blast. That was NEVER the intention! NEVER! If thats where this games going, perhaps, I simply wrong to hope this was a reboot of a classic franchise.

Let me rephrase your argument.

"You can't simply point to a single picture and say that lights are balanced! Do what I'm doing! I'm pointing to 0 PICTURES, 0 VIDEOS and saying lights are broken! Don't try to bring weak evidence to the discussion! Bring NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER! Don't you even know how the forums work?"

Edited by PEEFsmash, 21 September 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[nehebkau]

Why Run, on 21 September 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

You cannot point to a single picture and suggest one game shows it's not broken. I've played literally hundreds, and it's damn laughable to see lights running around in a circle of med+ mechs, taking blast after blast. That was NEVER the intention! NEVER! If thats where this games going, perhaps, I simply wrong to hope this was a reboot of a classic franchise.

The truth in here that is obscured by your statement is that you really have no proof of said mech's dancing around mediums and taking no damage. Having been on BOTH sides of the battle, doing the dance and being danced on, I can say that I have personally taken LOTS of damage doing the dancing and, dished out LOTS of damage to mechs who were dancing. I have spectated lots of matches where the person I was spectating was ranting about impossible lights but what I saw was miss after miss after miss.

Should you wish to have real proof, I'd be happy to bring in a light to a test game and test it, even have some moderators observe.