31 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

When there demonstrably IS?

That's testing an AC5 at approximately 1700 meters (it's max range) (rangefinder shows the ground behind the Cat, when place the pip on it, it was at 1693 meters)

The Catapult in the image stands 20 pixels tall (from toes to top of missile pods). From the center of the lower reticle, to the impact point is 22 pixels. A mere 1/4 inch in the image, which translates to a LOT more:

Since the Catapult is approximately 17 meters tall to the top of its pod:

We can say each pixel represents close to .85 meters, meaning at that range (1700 meters, or just over 1 mile) the ac5 had a bullet drop of approximately 18.7 meters (or 61.35 ft)!

If needed or desired, I can go and get approximate max range drops for the other ballistics. Just noted how often people on here lament how the ballistics need bullet drop drop to feel more realistic. I would say that a full mech height worth of drop at it's max range is pretty significant, myself.

[Wintersdark]

I've never heard anyone make that claim.

Bullet drop has always been in game and has always seemed very reasonable in its implementation. You don't want to see significant drop at optimal range (listed by the weapon) because that would make ballistics and energy weapons extremely difficult to use together, but beyond that absolutely.

Anyone who thinks thee is no bullet drop is clearly just bad at long range combat, and doesn't know it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 21 September 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

I've never heard anyone make that claim.

Bullet drop has always been in game and has always seemed very reasonable in its implementation. You don't want to see significant drop at optimal range (listed by the weapon) because that would make ballistics and energy weapons extremely difficult to use together, but beyond that absolutely.

Anyone who thinks thee is no bullet drop is clearly just bad at long range combat, and doesn't know it.

it actually pops up on most of the longer ballistic discussion posts, and I hear it all the time in TS. As a long time AC20 user, who has always been willing to snipe with it, I knew better. Seems a lot of people don't.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

it actually pops up on most of the longer ballistic discussion posts, and I hear it all the time in TS. As a long time AC20 user, who has always been willing to snipe with it, I knew better. Seems a lot of people don't.

Yeah, if you want to make long range shots with an AC20 in particular, you absolutely have to account for significant drop.

But even Gauss Rifles, if you want to headshot mechs at long range, you need to account for it too. It's why I was surprised that people thought there wasn't bullet drop; if you want to use ballistics effectively at long range, you need to account for the drop, or you'll be inexplicably missing or leggings mechs all the time.

Maybe this is why so many people find it hard to hit mechs at long range? I've always wondered, myself - it's pretty much "click the pixels" - but if they're not accounting for drop, that would explain a lot. I used to get all sorts of flack for headshotting motionless mechs at the start of River City matches with gauss rifles, and never understood why anyone felt that was much of an accomplishment.

[CDLord HHGD]

No doubt, I have always seen drop from ballistics at range..... And not even extreme ranges like in the example. Just an AC20 round at max full effect range (250m) has drop.

[NRP]

I clearly see bullet drop, especially with the AC10 and AC/20. PPCs don't seem to have bullet drop, but ACs certainly do.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

I'm quite sure only Autocannons have bullet drop.

The advantage Gauss always had despite traveling at a slower m/s (when they were 1200m/s at least under the AC5's 1300m/s) was that the Gauss round didn't have any ballistic drop. Same with PPCs.

Edited by mwhighlander, 21 September 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

mwhighlander, on 21 September 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

I'm quite sure only Autocannons have bullet drop.

The advantage Gauss always had despite traveling at a slower m/s (when they were 1200m/s at least under the AC5's 1300m/s) was that the Gauss round didn't have any ballistic drop. Same with PPCs.

PPCs SHOULDN'T have bullet drop, they are a bloody lightning bolt (aka charged particle stream).

Did just confirm the Gauss. ZERO drop at 1700+ meters. I do think that should be changed. It's still a single heavy projectile, and while 2000 m/s is fast it isn't immune to physics.

That said, it also does balls for damage at that range. I ran through 3 tons of ammo testing on the Catapult. 8 shots were intentional misses to confirm the lack of drop. ALL the rest either hit CT or Head. (Forgot to bring advanced zoom module or that would be all one location or the other) and neither even had their ammo turned orange, let alone breeched.

[Jman5]

If I'm reading the XML file right, Gauss, machine guns, and PPC do not have bullet drop, but the other ballistics do. It uses Earth Gravity of 9.8ms.

I'm not sure about the exact formula though.

Edited by Jman5, 21 September 2013 - 01:00 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Jman5, on 21 September 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

If I'm reading the XML file right, Gauss, machine guns, and PPC do not have bullet drop, but the other ballistics do. It uses Earth Gravity of 9.8ms.

I'm not sure about the exact formula though.

Machine guns count as ballistics, but they are actually lasers. The bullets are just a particle effect, not objects.

This incidentally means that whether or not the bullets connect with your target has no bearing on how much damage you do.

[Antagonist]

17m tall Catapult?

Isn't the Atlas one of the, if not the tallest mech at 13 meters?

Also, it's actually not the Catapult that's too large, it's the Jenner and the accompanying human silhouette that are too small.

Fun fact: The MG3 has a bullet drop of 13m at 1200 meters out.

Edited by Antagonist, 21 September 2013 - 03:28 PM.

[Ozasuke]

While we're at it, let's talk about the Coriolis effect...
http://en.wikipedia....Coriolis_effect

Oz

[Ozasuke]

Antagonist, on 21 September 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Isn't the Atlas one of the, if not the tallest mech at 13 meters?

Actually, the Atlas is 18m tall.
http://mwomercs.com/...post__p__135743

Oz

[Blade Pride]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

If needed or desired, I can go and get approximate max range drops for the other ballistics. Just noted how often people on here lament how the ballistics need bullet drop drop to feel more realistic.

If your going to do the work, it would be better to get data that would be useful while in game. Like, at 800 meters the drop on the AC20 is the bottom of the crosshair line when in Adv. Zoom. The AC2 is still in the target circle at 1200m, at 1800m its the top of the bottom line when in Adv. Zoom. Note this is still in the circle when in normal zoom.

Edited by Blade Pride, 21 September 2013 - 06:02 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

I find knowing the drop at the maximum range to be eminently useful. As a lifelong hunter and marksman, I can easily compensate for the ranges in between when I know that.

[Utilyan]

Why Do People Keep Saying There Is No Bullet Drop In Mw:o?

I think max range plays to the illusion.

I think they should remove max range to ballistics....and keep a tiny fart of a minimum damage with the cannons.....

So like if your 2000m......you should still get hit with a ac/20.

Even with no damage, if its just a shell that bounces off a mech......that would be alot cooler then nothing at all happening.

[Bishop Steiner]

Antagonist, on 21 September 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

17m tall Catapult?

Isn't the Atlas one of the, if not the tallest mech at 13 meters?

Also, it's actually not the Catapult that's too large, it's the Jenner and the accompanying human silhouette that are too small.

Fun fact: The MG3 has a bullet drop of 13m at 1200 meters out.

the correct TT Atlas is about 12-13 meters. According to CGL the tallest mech is 14 meters, and the Atlas is NOT, the tallest mech. Never has been. The MW:O Atlas is about 19.5 meters, 20 to the top o it's ariels. (or 18 according to Dennis, so apparently their past scales are off too)

Antagonist, on 21 September 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

17m tall Catapult?

Isn't the Atlas one of the, if not the tallest mech at 13 meters?

Also, it's actually not the Catapult that's too large, it's the Jenner and the accompanying human silhouette that are too small.

Fun fact: The MG3 has a bullet drop of 13m at 1200 meters out.

And totally incorrect on the Catapult. Unless it was hollow, a military/industrial machine that size would be over 100 tons. Also, that cockpit could seat a family of 5 and a jacuzzi. The Jenner is actually almost spot on for something weighing 35 tons. Military machines are almost never larger than absolutely needed. I work with heavy machines.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 September 2013 - 08:14 PM.

[Bagheera]

Utilyan, on 21 September 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

Why Do People Keep Saying There Is No Bullet Drop In Mw:o?

I think max range plays to the illusion.

I think they should remove max range to ballistics....and keep a tiny fart of a minimum damage with the cannons.....

So like if your 2000m......you should still get hit with a ac/20.

Even with no damage, if its just a shell that bounces off a mech......that would be alot cooler then nothing at all happening.

Wait, don't they do this already? Sniping with the ac20 is one of my favorite things, I'm sure I've fired more than a few rounds at things farther away than the zero damage point. Usually just to try backing someone down a ridgeline or whatever they are popping over. I could swear the projectile keeps going, though I could be imagining it.

Edited by Bagheera, 21 September 2013 - 08:15 PM.

[Utilyan]

Bagheera, on 21 September 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

Wait, don't they do this already? Sniping with the ac20 is one of my favorite things, I'm sure I've fired more than a few rounds at things farther away than the zero damage point. Usually just to try backing someone down a ridgeline or whatever they are popping over. I could swear the projectile keeps going, though I could be imagining it.

your right it does keep going.......explodes when hits.

[Shadey99]

PPCs and even lasers actually keep going as well, which is kind of funny in a way, but past their max range they do no damage. The PPC though will still rock you just like ballistic projectiles. I find it totally ironic that the only weapons that will not and cannot exceed their range are missiles.