88 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Kinda ironic, since NOW that people feel they are broken is when they finally "realize" that Mechwarrior has enough weapons. Yet apparently, when they are the ONLY weapon being used they are OK.

Fortunately, still see plenty enough of them. The Gauss isn't dead. It's just not the ezmode solution anymore.

You can't use it with a joystick. You need a drag and click interface now.

Also, my meaning was that working Gauss Rifles would counter what I am doing now as well as other tactics so the gameplay is diminished. And why is a weapon that is used alot broken? That seems like reverse logic.

On the surface it might have seemed like the Gauss was an all-purpose weapon, but it never was. It never had the ability to out DPS AC20's or AC5's. It was the favored weapon because MWO does not allow players to Mechlab after they are told what the Map will be. The Gauss can adapt best, but it's certainly not the weapon you want for every map, which is what the Gauss-nerfers wanted us to believe.

So I guess you could say the Gauss Rifle could adapt best to MWO's lack of interfacing mission parameters, but it is and was MWO's interface that needs the fixing, never the Gauss Rifle.




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Edited by Lightfoot, 22 September 2013 - 04:42 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lightfoot, on 22 September 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

You can't use it with a joystick. You need a drag and click interface now.

Also, my meaning was that working Gauss Rifles would counter what I am doing now as well as other tactics so the gameplay is diminished. And why is a weapon that is used alot broken? That seems like reverse logic.

On the surface it might have seemed like the Gauss was an all-purpose weapon, but it never was. It never had the ability to out DPS AC20's or AC5's. It was the favored weapon because MWO does not allow players to Mechlab after they are told what the Map will be. The Gauss can adapt best, but it's certainly not the weapon you want for every map, which is what the Gauss-nerfers wanted us to believe.

So I guess you could say the Gauss Rifle could adapt best to MWO's lack of interfacing mission parameters, but it is and was MWO's interface that needs the fixing, never the Gauss Rifle.




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Why would I say a weapon that gets overused is broken?

Simple, that implies that it is significantly better than the other weapons available. It's a simple fact, that in gaming, especially competitive gaming, people follow the path of least resistance, not highest skill. And once the "Comp" crowd identifies what is the best risk/reward scenario, it trickles down into all play arenas.

The Gaussapult did not get huge in Closed Beta due to the inherent skill needed to master it, but becaus with SHS, the Gauss was a HUGE advantage. Why was the sky full of LRMs during LRMaggedon? Again, because it was easy mode, and if you didn't conform to it, you probably died. Ditto the SplatCat Crisis. And then we had the 6 months of the PPC/Gauss Poptart then Peektart snipe meta. Why? Because being able to do 35-60 pts of pinpoint damage across the screen, even if one shutdown from it, had a higher overall reward than higher "DPS" weapons because by the time those AC40 JAgers, and such got into range, they were toasted from PPC/Gauss. Heck the Triple UAC was inplace with it's 15% Jam rate BEFORE The PPC/Gauss Meta was culled. But as devastating as the build COULD be, it didn't get used becaus those mechs dies to PPC/Gauss fire before having a chance to unleash the kraken.

When a weapons advantages are so glaring they become the go to weapon for all scenarios, they are broken. Yes, they could be out-DPS'd. Are you really naive enough to try to argue that DPS means almost ANYTHING in this game? IT's about highest alpha output. Because the mech that can pop up, fire, and score 35 pts instant damage to one area and then be in cover .5 seconds later is ALWAYS better than a Mech that can lay out 100 damage but needs to stay exposed 5 full seconds to do it.

And the Gauss? Yeah, it did 5 pts less damage than the AC20. and it also did 6 pts less heat, and had no ghost heat penalty. And more ammo per ton 2.5 times the range, while still being totally usable at PBR. In any FPS, there needs to be balance in the weapons. Not perfect balance, as that is boring, but "perfect" imbalance, actually. If something is clearly the best, it breaks the game balance, and as such, is broken.


Also, the Gauss is NOT Joystick unplayable now. It's rigid thinking unplayable. I simply switched it out from my main trigger, which is now assigned to twitch fire weapons, and reassigned it the thumb trigger next to the hat on my Sidewinder. Which is easy to simply maintain thumb pressure on until the shot is lined up, then release, even while staying clinched on my primary trigger for my other weapons. Yes, I would prefer the "double tap" method for use, where a single tap charges, and the second fires. IT's more intuitive. But it's not unusable.

[BaluMKO]

I found Gauss to be an elegant weapon.
As it has a remarkable damage, I think it should have a weakness - which is operating it accurately. ( as also no heat generated basicly)
I have been using a gauss pult for a week now and I had to get used to it ( after a 6 medlaser jenner 7F!) but I enjoy it very much.
I read some threads about support and sniper roles with gauss, get to know the maps for nice spots, and it is really fun. Although ultra zoom module is a must!
Concerning the shooting mechanism I found it the most exciting, like shooting with a bow, the shot is done by releasing the projectile ( arrow) or in gauss case the small metal gift it is just so elegant. Just get used to it you can enjoy it eventually. For timing I am relying on the sound of the weaopon charge not always the green light on the aiming cockpit.
So dont give up on gauss, it is the biggest fun weapon in the game in my opinion, just keep practicing and enjoy it!

Cheers,

Bali

[Pariah Devalis]

As CYBRN4CR put it, I picture it like a big ol' bow and arrow. I learned real quick that to be effective with it, personally, I had to make it a secondary primary weapon. That is to say, make it a primary weapon system but have an equally (or near equally) effective weapon system paired with it. Do not rely 100% on the gauss damage because sometimes you do need to snapshoot. For example, a Gauss with 2 or 3 ERLLas or a Gauss with an ERPPC works well, HSR permitting.

Nothing is more satisfying, however, then targeting a light behind cover, charging, and unloading the slug right into its chest as it clears the terrain obstruction. Even if it does not kill the target, the fact that you were able to think ahead of your mech, your gun, and your target is its own reward.

I do feel like the discharge time limit is a bit steep (I also feel like it should only explode if damaged while charging or holding a charge since empty capacitors won't discharge given they have nothing to lose), but I find them satisfying and effective weapons. They are also a good counter to the AC spam meta going on. At extreme ranges, the ability to precisely land one frontloaded high damage slug where you want it, consistently, is better than spraying AC shells in the general area you want them to hit. I say spraying, knowing full well they are being aimed, but if you move erratically or go forward and backward laterally to your enemy constantly the AC shells will either miss or scatter their hits all across your mech, while you can take that deep breath, charge the capacitor, and calmly plant that gauss slug exactly where they do not want it.

[CDLord HHGD]

I have re-tweaked all my Gauss builds to remove them. Swapped for an AC10 in most cases. Still does pretty good and is an example to PGI to actually fix the problem instead of band-aiding it with a silly charge mechanic.

Here's my fix:
PPCs do their damage by electrical discharge and EMP. PPC is termed as man-made lighting bolt. When fired in sync with any other weapon, the electrical discharge should bleed off as it damages the sync'd projectile (AC/Gauss round, SRM) or the EMP effect should effect a sync'd laser or PPC blast. The net result would be the weapons hitting and damaging the target but at a significantly reduced (50%) damage due to the PPC beam damaging the sync'd weapon's projectile/beam.

[Lightfoot]

Well, I use a joystick and the mechanic doesn't work with it because you can't aim and fire with a joystick in the one second window allowed. I have been piloting mechs since 1998 with a joystick so if the learning curve is that great it should be changed to something more functional.

Most MWO players will never learn to use Gauss Rifle as is so it's just poison to MWO in general. You don't want a massive low DPS weapon to have an unusable factor that large. If players invest all that payload to a weapon it should always be usable by any player.

The good fix for the Gauss Rifle is to just give it a longer recharge than the AC20. The mistake was giving both the AC20 and Gauss Rifle the same recharge rate. That's all it ever was.



.

Edited by Lightfoot, 05 November 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[Vodrin Thales]

mwhighlander, on 21 September 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Experienced players only?


No, just annoying to use.

The loss of the ability to snapfire the weapon really reduces effectiveness and limits how useful it is in competitive play. Dual AC5/UAC5 or AC20 are better alternatives when available, but I still enjoy running a gauss + 2PPC setups once in a while for the instakill cockpit shots.

[Vodrin Thales]

Lightfoot, on 22 September 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

You can't use it with a joystick. You need a drag and click interface now.

Also, my meaning was that working Gauss Rifles would counter what I am doing now as well as other tactics so the gameplay is diminished. And why is a weapon that is used alot broken? That seems like reverse logic.

On the surface it might have seemed like the Gauss was an all-purpose weapon, but it never was. It never had the ability to out DPS AC20's or AC5's. It was the favored weapon because MWO does not allow players to Mechlab after they are told what the Map will be. The Gauss can adapt best, but it's certainly not the weapon you want for every map, which is what the Gauss-nerfers wanted us to believe.

So I guess you could say the Gauss Rifle could adapt best to MWO's lack of interfacing mission parameters, but it is and was MWO's interface that needs the fixing, never the Gauss Rifle.

.

I assume you are referring to the status of the gauss just prior to the charge mechanic, not when it first started receiving nerfs. If you look back to this time last year it was indeed the best weapon for all occasions. In addition, the charge mechanic was added because of what the gauss could do when paired with 2 PPC's. The fact it could easily be used by some players to kill opponents before they could react at ranges beyond 500 meters was untenable for longterm game health. And the things that poptarts could do with that setup was what the dev's really did not like.

Personally I would have like to have just seen a longer cooldown by 0.75 seconds with a minimum range on the weapon, but I am ok with what they did.

[verybad]

The Gauss is an interesting weapon. I've seen it used exceptionally well by a commander in one of the games I've played, the guy was staying back enough to give commands, but also able to provide good support, and when somebody got in close to him, he smashed them.). I've also see it used exceptionally poorly by people that didn't know what they were doing. Saying it's an experienced players weapon is probably accurate

[Jonal]

I really like the idea of a double tap to fire instead of the hold and let go. Also, I would love 1 more second on it staying charged. I have uncanny timing of letting off the mouse button right after the charge is gone. Maybe the double tap would fix that for me though.

[VikingN1nja]

Anyone that thinks the mechanic is fair and fine is a non factor.

ac20 + ppc
ac5 x2 + ppc
ac10 + ppc

Should i go on?

Edited by omegaorgun, 06 November 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Anyone who thinks the mechanic isn't fair and is not fine is a non-factor.


Funny how that works.

What reality actually is? Seems like there is a polarized split between those who like it and those who do not. Voices about equal on either side. You know what that means?

Pssst! It means it is about where the devs want it!

[VikingN1nja]

Also the amount of premium mechs that had it as it's main ballistic now resorting to ac10 etc and weaker compared to ac20 counterparts becuase of it.

People that like it are the people who get killed by it or stupid trolls.
The ones that dislike the mechanic are actually the ones who used it.

As stated this has not stopped pop tarting.

Edited by omegaorgun, 06 November 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Again, omega. You are making a poor argument with words that can be flip flopped. Stop. Wanna watch me screw with it again? Ok.

"People that hate it are the people who cannot figure out how to use it or are stupid trolls. The ones that like the mechanic are actually the ones who used it."

Essentially, you are trying to negate an opposite view by trying to exclude them on no grounds whatsoever. You have an opinion. That is fine. Respect theirs even if you disagree with it.

Again, there seems to be a split down the middle of people who like it and people who hate it. People are lazy. If they made it so that most people liked it, it would be back to where it was before: too damned good.

It is not a perfect system as it is now, but it is not a terrible one either. Could use some number tweaking as to its charge, hold, and cooldown periods, but the concept of it works and achieves its goal of making it a clunky weapon to use in close range. If poptarting was the singular goal of it, then they could have easily kept the changes at projectile speed differences between ppc and gauss. Instead, they made it an even BETTER sniper weapon that just requires more than the usual amount of situational awareness before starting your charge up.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 November 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[VikingN1nja]

I mean you have a 45t black jack bam bam having a better weapon than a 90t Highlander?

Why not an option for those who don't use it to PPC instakill to have old mechanic, like the heavy metal which used it for brawls.

Edited by omegaorgun, 06 November 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

45 ton blackjack with an AC20 vs a mech with a gauss rifle 600 meters away.

Who wins?

In a brawl? The BJ is at an advantage. At range? You bet your sweet sweet cherry red center torso the gauss mech has the advantage.

[VikingN1nja]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 November 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

45 ton blackjack with an AC20 vs a mech with a gauss rifle 600 meters away.

Who wins?

In a brawl? The BJ is at an advantage. At range? You bet your sweet sweet cherry red center torso the gauss mech has the advantage.

AC20 733C VS premium Heavymetal($30 dam dollars BUT now needs ac10)...I wonder who wins....733c and my wallet caught fire not to mention DS, STK-M etc.

Something needs adjusting on this mechanic.

Can i ask what Gauss mechs you used and still use?

Edited by omegaorgun, 06 November 2013 - 10:39 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

My Heavy Metal runs a Gauss and 3xERLLas just fine, thank you. You may be more comfortable shooting an AC10, but the gauss rifle was never, is not, and will never be a weapon system designed for close ranged work. It is not a brawling weapon. No ifs, ands, or buts. Just like an LB-10X is not a sniping weapon. So it makes perfect sense that in a brawl, the AC20 is better. The AC10 is arguably better in a brawl, too, due to rate of fire and no exploding if damaged. But that AC10 will still never match the range and damage of a Gauss Rifle. It also will never match the near non-existent heat generation of the Gauss Rifle, or the Gauss Rifle's projectile speed.

It is a different tool for a different role.

[VikingN1nja]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 November 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

My Heavy Metal runs a Gauss and 3xERLLas just fine, thank you.  You may be more comfortable shooting an AC10, but the gauss rifle was never, is not, and will never be a weapon system designed for close ranged work.  It is not a brawling weapon.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  Just like an LB-10X is not a sniping weapon.  So it makes perfect sense that in a brawl, the AC20 is better.  The AC10 is arguably better in a brawl, too, due to rate of fire and no exploding if damaged.  But that AC10 will still never match the range and damage of a Gauss Rifle.  It also will never match the near non-existent heat generation of the Gauss Rifle, or the Gauss Rifle's projectile speed.

It is a different tool for a different role.

So I am supposed to accept that my favourite weapon in the game is ruined and my favourite mech is now and $30 pixel paperweight.
I will not sit back and will continue to voice my dislike of it as i paid enough dam money for it.

Edited by omegaorgun, 06 November 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

You have not said why it is ruined. Why is it ruined? Because you want to brawl with a gauss rifle?


Good luck getting THAT issue past the serious faces committee.

Weapons are designed with purposes in mind. What do you expect, taking a long ranged, precision coil gun into a fast, brutal slugfest? Did you want the Gauss Rifle to be good at everything? Or have I missed the point you were trying to make about gauss rifles at some point between you making interchangeable arguments about words and claiming the HM is ruined?

In all honestly, I want you to construct a solid argument for Gauss Rifles as you see them existing. What do you want out of them. What is your vision for them. Then how do you intend to balance them? Then we can have a good conversation about why you feel the way you do, and you could very well make some good points.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 November 2013 - 10:55 AM.