88 replies to this topic

[NRP]

I guess I'm in the camp that didn't think the gauss itself was broken. I always prefer an AC/20 in a brawler. I only used a gauss when I couldn't use an AC/20. I no longer have that option.

I see the gauss as a casualty of the poptart meta. There are probably a number of ways PGI could have "de-synced" PPCs and gauss without screwing the gauss itself (or the PPC itself). But instead we now have a less effective gauss, a less effective (and often too hot) PPC, and a ghost heat mechanic that adversely affects a number of builds that weren't really part of original problem. Now here we are.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 07 November 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Not gonna argue this point at all. It is horrible at that. It requires an enemy to expose itself. Then again, I can usually clip a poptart by charging as it jumps up and unloading as it levels off or starts to drop. I then usually scream "PULL!" victoriously, but I digress. The flaw with the PPC mechs is that minimum range. I would easily wager 1/3 of them do not even remember it has a minimum range of 90 and does ziltch damage below that point. I wager that because no matter how many PPC, PPC, ERPPC, or PPC, PPC, AC10/20 mechs I charge, I still see far too many fire those cannons into me point blank.

It is a lot like when people took 6 PPC stalkers and I would walk up to their nose in my spider and cockpit them from 2 meters away as they blasted at me in confusion. Except far less hilarious and with far fewer cries of "HAX!"

with the reduced projectile speed and heat, the 90 meter mini is kinda overkill. Doable, but unnecessary, IMO.

[Pariah Devalis]

I do agree. But then I also think they over did it a touch with ERPPC heat, too. It is at 15 now, right? And people complained at 13? So, what, does 14 not exist? Wrong thread, I know, but that jump was more than a bit much and what bothers me the most out of the recent weapon tweaks. By comparison, with 18 DHS, 2 PPC puts you at around 30% heat while 2 ERPPC put you at ~50%. That... seems awfully steep. And that is with 18 DHS.

The slow projectile speed, I can deal with. But having a weapon system that you cannot fire 2 of them, let alone ghost heat 3, without incurring serious heat issues outside of dedicated poptarting? Dislike tremendously. I mean, poptarts do not need to worry about heat since they can take their time to cool off, so the extreme heat change there is a bit odd to me.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 07 November 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 07 November 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

I do agree. But then I also think they over did it a touch with ERPPC heat, too. It is at 15 now, right? And people complained at 13? So, what, does 14 not exist? Wrong thread, I know, but that jump was more than a bit much and what bothers me the most out of the recent weapon tweaks. By comparison, with 18 DHS, 2 PPC puts you at around 30% heat while 2 ERPPC put you at ~50%. That... seems awfully steep. And that is with 18 DHS.

The slow projectile speed, I can deal with. But having a weapon system that you cannot fire 2 of them, let alone ghost heat 3, without incurring serious heat issues outside of dedicated poptarting? Dislike tremendously. I mean, poptarts do not need to worry about heat since they can take their time to cool off, so the extreme heat change there is a bit odd to me.

conversely, with a faster projectile, it would be worth the heat, but when the projectile takes long enough it can be dodged, the extra long range is of minimal use. Conversely, with the Gauss, chances are, if I aimed right, I will hit, period.

[Anjian]

In my opinion, PPC should go back to the previous faster speed but retain the current heat and minimum range enforcement.

With Gauss the time window should be removed, which means you better fire this somehow once its charged. Although Gauss is not meant as a brawler weapon (sez who) there should be the option of charging then holding it as long as possible so you can smack this right at someone's face close range.

[Blackadder]

The changes to the GR at the time were bad, and are still bad in my opinion. While the GR can still be used, its use is counter intuitive to every other weapon in the game, and the mechanic is Unwieldy and annoying for many people. The mechanics rival that of the old UAC 5 minigame where you had to manually unjam the weapon. In an effort to desync the GR from energy builds, they basically destroyed its use, because while it can be used by any experienced player, its frankly not very much fun.

whats worse is it really did not solve or fix the energy+ballistics combo which is the dominant style in this game and has been for quite some time. All it did, was remove the GR, and replace it with AC10, dual AC5 or other auto cannon weapons, which provide the same function, for a little more heat, and slighlty less damage while still allowing pinpoint damage to portions of a mech.

[Bishop Steiner]

"for a little more heat, a little less damage"

I believe was entirely the point. Also, much slower projectiles, which have bullet drop, and because aside from the 10 and 20 we are talking DPS weapons, much less pinpoint and much more likely to spread across the mech. Whereas the range and projectile speed of the 10 and 20 are downright laughable in comparison.

[Shadey99]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 November 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

"for a little more heat, a little less damage"

I believe was entirely the point. Also, much slower projectiles, which have bullet drop, and because aside from the 10 and 20 we are talking DPS weapons, much less pinpoint and much more likely to spread across the mech. Whereas the range and projectile speed of the 10 and 20 are downright laughable in comparison.

I don't think it worked all that well... I see plenty of dual PPC + AC20 weapons grouped fired at short (150-200) to mid-range (400-500) lately. That hits at least as hard, if not harder and at the right range it hits at the same time or nearly so. It reduced the range of the tactics (no more alpha deaths at your starting spot on certain maps), but not the tactic itself. Personally I don't fire mixed weapons groups, but it has not become less popular.

[Pariah Devalis]

True, and that just comes back to a problem (pinpoint alpha) that has existed in all prior mechwarrior games. I do not think it is entirely solvable outside of that homeless bill computer load/limited COF concept. Even that would be negligible at the ranges that those weapons are being tooled to fire within on those builds. The flat COF idea is just rage inducing, however, so that extreme is not a great path to follow, either. I would be the first to admit I have no idea how that problem can be adequately solved.

But you know what? Despite it being a problem, I rather those massive pinpoint alphas be done at close range rather than at 600+ range. At least then you have the option to simply outrange them and it eliminates the scores of stupid games where people moved within 800 meters of one another and simply evaporated.