42 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

Now that the matchmaker is closing the gap in terms of skill (not perfectly and still quite broken), it'd be nice for PGI to implement tonnage limits to allow the games to be far more diverse. We currently see matches full of 4 - 7 assaults, the rest being heavies and maybe a light. Medium mechs are non-existent again.

Sadly, mediums are super fun to play. However, if you're the only medium on a team... well, that usually doesn't end well.

So tonnage limits/class limits/something would be nice to end the assault/heavy weighting and smooth things out to more "classical" BT levels. For PUG drops, at least. 12-mans should remain anything goes.

[Grym]

Putting specific tonnage limits on a melting pot of mech weights will just put burden on the match-maker system. Launch searches would take longer. Noobs in atlai would be a huge hindrance (that happens even now).

Even though i would like to see tonnage limits on PUG matches, there isnt a logical way i can see for it to be implemented without detriment to the PUG experience.

12 mans should already have tonnage limiits. Dropping vs teams with 5 D-DCs 2 missle boats and 3 random assault mechs rounded out with 2 spiders who only Que for assault is not my idea of competitive play.

Tonnage limits, or even forcing 12 mans to Que as "any" would go a long way to making 12 mans more diverse.

Also, sync dropping. The matchmaker should be changed to NEVER allow 3 groups of 4 to be match on the same team in PUGs. The practice is very near to explotation of mechanics even if its rare for it to be successful.

Edited by Grym, 21 September 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[jakucha]

They're adding tonnage limits of some form

[RandomLurker]

Tonnage is too vague an indicator of the power of a mech. Some version of Battle Value would be better.

[The Boz]

Whatever system implemented (be it tonnage or damage or battle value or whatever), I hope they make it flexible, and not write it down in stone. Meaning, the teams themselves must be balanced within a match, but two matches don't have to be. One match could be eight lights, two mediums and two heavies vs seven lights, four mediums, one heavy; another game could be nine assaults and three heavies vs seven assaults, three heavies, a medium and a light.
That way the time to find a match is global, not per mech.

[Why Run]

Like these balances?

Edited by Why Run, 21 September 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[Biglead]

Why Run, on 21 September 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

Like these balances?

That's probably the most balanced match I've ever seen. Team Assault vs Team Ballistic Boat.

[WarZ]

Mister Blastman, on 21 September 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Now that the matchmaker is closing the gap in terms of skill (not perfectly and still quite broken), it'd be nice for PGI to implement tonnage limits to allow the games to be far more diverse. We currently see matches full of 4 - 7 assaults, the rest being heavies and maybe a light. Medium mechs are non-existent again.

Sadly, mediums are super fun to play. However, if you're the only medium on a team... well, that usually doesn't end well.

So tonnage limits/class limits/something would be nice to end the assault/heavy weighting and smooth things out to more "classical" BT levels. For PUG drops, at least. 12-mans should remain anything goes.

I whole heartedly endorse this sentiment ! Teams should be within 10-20 tons of each other. I think the best option is "class" matching with tonnage limits. Every team should have "x" number of lights, mediums, heavies, and assaults.

A more class balanced team will lead to far far more variability in match dynamics.

As it stands right now, the lighter you go, the more you penalize your team. Especially if you are a high elo player. It is strongly discouraging the option to explore the lighter weight classes. Theres a few mechs in the light and mediums Ive been meaning to try, however going lighter is extremely dicey if MM balances the team around your higher elo.

Edited by WarZ, 21 September 2013 - 03:50 PM.

[FupDup]

I'm not opposed to tonnage limits per se, but TL alone aren't going to solve the issue. People take heavies and assaults more often than lights and mediums because they're more useful in combat. TL does not improve the effectiveness of mediums or lights, it simply reduces the number of enemy heavies and assaults shooting at them. Mechs under 60 tons would be still cannon fodder, all that changes is that there's a lot more fodder and fewer cannons.

The ultimate fix would be to implement the thing PGI typed as ROLE WARFARE, but they somehow forgot about that concept somewhere along the road of developing this game. The point is, all mechs should be "asymmetrically equal," meaning that they all are desirable to have on your team for whatever individual (different) role they fulfill, and that lacking mechs of that role would put your team at a significant disadvantage. This is unlikely to be implemented, however, because hero mechs of the heavy and assault classes are gobbled up like candy by this game's MC whales and because PGI believes assault mechs to be "top tier avatars."

Edited by FupDup, 21 September 2013 - 06:10 PM.

[Caspian111]

Hello,

I totally agree with you that we need a tonnage balance, or at least a better matchmaking. I tried to developp some ideas on this post http://mwomercs.com/...ed-matchmaking/
Feel free to post also yours.

Edited by Caspian111, 22 September 2013 - 02:57 AM.

[operator0]

RandomLurker, on 21 September 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Tonnage is too vague an indicator of the power of a mech. Some version of Battle Value would be better.

Hey, this is PGI we are talking about. Lets start off with tonnage limits and work our way up from there.

[Wispsy]

Please no

[Ghogiel]

Wasn't there something about tonnage limits on premades in the pug queue ..?

[Screech]

Ghogiel, on 22 September 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Wasn't there something about tonnage limits on premades in the pug queue ..?

There was, but then they changed their minds. Not sure what the plan is now. Maybe they will say something at their party, maybe not.

[HammerSwarm]

as a medium/lightheavy pilot I can't see tonage limits come soon enough. It will open up roles to lighter mechs in 12 mans and at every other level of play.

[OznerpaG]

considering that it often takes me 1+min to find a match (and i have 30 ping), tonnage limits would just make that wait longer. i think we might need more players playing MWO before starting to impose limits

[Ghogiel]

Screech, on 22 September 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

There was, but then they changed their minds. Not sure what the plan is now. Maybe they will say something at their party, maybe not.

It wasn't long back they posted that table of experimental tonnage limits as an example, where was it said they changed their minds on that. In fact where was that post with that table anyhow....?

[Screech]

Ghogiel, on 22 September 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

It wasn't long back they posted that table of experimental tonnage limits as an example, where was it said they changed their minds on that. In fact where was that post with that table anyhow....?

That table was based off bring in all size groups back into the general queue(including 12mans). Since then they decided to make 12mans 1PV only and therefore no longer going back into the general queue. They didn't state how this change affects the plans but since they never answered I assume they are re-thinking things.

The table in question was from ask the devs, not sure number maybe 45.

[Nehkrosis]

Could it be possible to implement a system that

A) took into consideration your mech weight, assigning a BV to that.

B ) then taking into account your Weapons and Equipment, and adding BV to them

C) Then, adding your K/D Ratio, then your Specific K/D ratio with that Mech, adding them.

D) Finally, then taking into account your accuracy with the weapons you have

the total result would be an accurate determination of your worth to the team.

give a maximum BV for each team, and sally forth. keep in mind this data is readily available and is already stored
by PGi, so thats there..

Thoughts?

Edited by Nehkrosis, 22 September 2013 - 07:38 AM.

[Kitane]

Devs already described what they are planning to do:

- it will support weight limits for groups from 2 to 12
- it will enable teams larger than 4 to enter the queue.
- every size of a group will have a minimum and maximum allowed weight (something like 40-60t average). So every assault will have to be paired with a light mech to stay in the weight range.