25 replies to this topic

[Gremlich Johns]

According to the grammar in the win conditions/rules seen during the load screens, The implementaion of WIN in Assault is incorrect:

When the game is loading up, on the first screen is displayed "conditions"

followed by:

Capture the enemy base
Destroy all enemy players

it does not say:

Win Options:
Capture the enemy base, or
Destroy all enemy players

again, the "to win" requirements are stated as

conditions:
Capture the enemy Base,
Destroy all enemy players

the next load screen (before the drop) is similar, but uses "rules" instead of "conditions"

Knowing what I do of English Grammar, this leads me to read the requirements as both conditions are needed to win. All of us know that currently, one or the other is a win condition for Assault.

Soooo, to be in line with the way the Assault mode is currently implemented, should these requirements instead be written as "either of two options are necessary in order to win" and not, as indicated, currently and grammatically, both options needing to be met in order to win?

the win requirements do not state (which would be correct if the King's English is being used)

win options:
Either capture the enemy base,
Or, destroy all enemy players.

Frankly, I think both conditions should be met, as they are currently stated in the loading screens, for a win on any Assault map. That would make that mode more palpable to those that also want a team Death match. Frankly, I'm getting tired of trudging around a map only to have our base get capped. Sure, valid tactic you say, but not as the conditions/rules are currently written.

What do you do about that lone mech that hides and shuts down you say?

At 10 secs after shutdown (longer than it takes to come back online after an overheat shutdown), the game ends in a loss for that pilot's team. No tie, the other team wins by default and gets all the points. That or the "losing team" forfeits points, say 25-30 %

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 22 September 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[CrashieJ]

actually they just need to drop the timer from 15 min to 10 that's it.

most battles in Mechwarrior are only 5-6 min at most, the rest of the time is running round either in Preparation or Defeat

the current game meta of 24 Dogpile doesn't really give much in tactics to take the full 15 min.

[Gremlich Johns]

bump


hey you TDM guys, this is the easiest answer since they will never make that mode.

[Livewyr]

Gremlich Johns, on 23 September 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

bump


hey you TDM guys, this is the easiest answer since they will never make that mode.

I volunteer to be that ***hole spider that shuts down in an obscure place to spite the enemy team.

(You're just taking their idea and making it take longer regardless???)

[Amsro]

The lack of game modes is mind numbing. We have Conquest A and Conquest B.

Its all a relentless C-Bill grind until some real modes are implemented.

[SmithMPBT]

Amsro, on 24 September 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

The lack of game modes is mind numbing. We have Conquest A and Conquest B.

Its all a relentless C-Bill grind until some real modes are implemented.

Unfortunately the last Ask the Devs states they aren't in development of any new game modes, but there definitely thinking about "maybe" doing them one day.

[LauLiao]

There can be multiple conditions which can be fulfilled separately. For example: The patent will leave the hospital when he gets better or when he dies. They are both conditions for leaving the hospital, but it's an either/or situation. Options for leaving the hospital would be either walk or ride in a wheel chair.

[Xmith]

Gremlich Johns, on 22 September 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

According to the grammar in the win conditions/rules seen during the load screens, The implementaion of WIN in Assault is incorrect:

When the game is loading up, on the first screen is displayed "conditions"

followed by:

Capture the enemy base
Destroy all enemy players

it does not say:

Win Options:
Capture the enemy base, or
Destroy all enemy players

again, the "to win" requirements are stated as

conditions:
Capture the enemy Base,
Destroy all enemy players

the next load screen (before the drop) is similar, but uses "rules" instead of "conditions"

Knowing what I do of English Grammar, this leads me to read the requirements as both conditions are needed to win. All of us know that currently, one or the other is a win condition for Assault.

Soooo, to be in line with the way the Assault mode is currently implemented, should these requirements instead be written as "either of two options are necessary in order to win" and not, as indicated, currently and grammatically, both options needing to be met in order to win?

the win requirements do not state (which would be correct if the King's English is being used)

win options:
Either capture the enemy base,
Or, destroy all enemy players.

Frankly, I think both conditions should be met, as they are currently stated in the loading screens, for a win on any Assault map. That would make that mode more palpable to those that also want a team Death match. Frankly, I'm getting tired of trudging around a map only to have our base get capped. Sure, valid tactic you say, but not as the conditions/rules are currently written.

What do you do about that lone mech that hides and shuts down you say?

At 10 secs after shutdown (longer than it takes to come back online after an overheat shutdown), the game ends in a loss for that pilot's team. No tie, the other team wins by default and gets all the points. That or the "losing team" forfeits points, say 25-30 %

I see where your coming from with this. In order for the match to end both conditions should be met based on the wording. The only problem is after the last enemy mech is killed, people will not want to sit and wait while the winning cap finishes.

[Gremlich Johns]

Xmith, on 24 September 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

I see where your coming from with this. In order for the match to end both conditions should be met based on the wording. The only problem is after the last enemy mech is killed, people will not want to sit and wait while the winning cap finishes.

Then the words "rules" and "conditions" should both be changed to "options", leaving us with the Assault/Conquest B game mode and no TDM.

LauLiao, on 24 September 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

There can be multiple conditions which can be fulfilled separately. For example: The patent will leave the hospital when he gets better or when he dies. They are both conditions for leaving the hospital, but it's an either/or situation. Options for leaving the hospital would be either walk or ride in a wheel chair.

You do not understand the grammar of the win "rules/conditions" grammar then. There are no conjunctions which would allow you to understand better what it is PGI messed up.

[Gremlich Johns]

bump

[Farix]

Absotutely not. Assault should remain as Capture the Flag. If you want a different game mode (such as Team Death Match), petition PGI for a new mode.

[Helican]

Farix, on 07 October 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Absotutely not. Assault should remain as Capture the Flag. If you want a different game mode (such as Team Death Match), petition PGI for a new mode.

Except its not capture that flag. Its a footrace, unless one team decides to forgo attacking and waits. Regardless, its still not capture the flag. Assault should be assault, but there should only be ONE base that both are wither trying to take or one is attacking and the other is defending.

[Training Instructor]

Farix, on 07 October 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Absotutely not. Assault should remain as Capture the Flag. If you want a different game mode (such as Team Death Match), petition PGI for a new mode.

Jesus man, have you not been reading these forums? Do you know how many times people have asked for a TDM mode? People have been asking since I started playing, which was pretty much right after open beta began. Almost a year now, and PGI just doesn't seem to care much about their absolute lack of content or variations in gameplay.

[Corralis]

King of the Hill would be the best game mode to implement right now as it would take almost no time to code (even for PGI), it makes far more sense, it makes both teams use actual tactics and it'll be damned fun. Just make sure that it takes a minimum of 3 minutes to fully cap the 'hill' to make it so the base can't be capped before the slower mechs can get into the fight and your laughing.

[Farix]

Helican, on 07 October 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Except its not capture that flag. Its a footrace, unless one team decides to forgo attacking and waits. Regardless, its still not capture the flag. Assault should be assault, but there should only be ONE base that both are wither trying to take or one is attacking and the other is defending.

That happens because one or both teams doesn't see the point of defending their base. That can be fixed by making some minor adjustments to the mechanics and redoing the rewards to emphasize achiveing the objective rather than just combat. But just because some players don't play the mode as Capture the Flag doesn't mean that the mode isn't set up as Capture the Flag.

Training Instructor, on 07 October 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

Jesus man, have you not been reading these forums? Do you know how many times people have asked for a TDM mode? People have been asking since I started playing, which was pretty much right after open beta began. Almost a year now, and PGI just doesn't seem to care much about their absolute lack of content or variations in gameplay.

I know some players have been calling for a Team Deathmatch. But Assault (CTF) shouldn't be sacrafied to get TDM. Nor should Assault be sacrafied for any other game mode, like KotH. The mechanics of Assault (CTF) should be improved upon and the rewards fixed. Then we have less complaining about those who play Assault as the CTF mode that it is.

[Corralis]

Farix, on 08 October 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

That happens because one or both teams doesn't see the point of defending their base. That can be fixed by making some minor adjustments to the mechanics and redoing the rewards to emphasize achiveing the objective rather than just combat. But just because some players don't play the mode as Capture the Flag doesn't mean that the mode isn't set up as Capture the Flag.


I know some players have been calling for a Team Deathmatch. But Assault (CTF) shouldn't be sacrafied to get TDM. Nor should Assault be sacrafied for any other game mode, like KotH. The mechanics of Assault (CTF) should be improved upon and the rewards fixed. Then we have less complaining about those who play Assault as the CTF mode that it is.

I don't get why you call assault Capture the Flag because it is nothing like CTF. CTF is where you go and pick up the 'flag' and carry it back to your base to score a point. Assault is Team Deathmatch with a capture mechanic, the same as conquest is Team Deathmatch with several capture mechanics, that's it, nothing else.

[stjobe]

Xmith, on 24 September 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

I see where your coming from with this. In order for the match to end both conditions should be met based on the wording. The only problem is after the last enemy mech is killed, people will not want to sit and wait while the winning cap finishes.

"Capture the enemy base" gets fulfilled automatically once "Destroy all enemy 'mechs" is met. No need to actually do it in-game.

The question is whether "Capture the enemy base" should end the match as it does now, or if "Destroy all enemy 'mechs" would still need to be met to end the match.

One might argue that if this was the case, the goal "Capture the enemy base" is completely superfluous and could be removed.

Hence, the calls to the "TDM crowd".

Edit: Personally I find it more interesting that one screen says "Destroy all enemy players" and the other "Destroy all enemy 'mechs"; I find that first one a mite hard to accomplish - and possibly illegal

Edited by stjobe, 08 October 2013 - 03:10 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

While the "or" in conditio is a "xor" because you hardly can do both - i think a victory condition could be a nice addition:

Instead of complete destruction you add a kind of ticket system.
Capturing the base count as 5 or 6 tickets
Every killed Mech count as one ticket- every Mech you lost cost a ticket

Team that got more than 10 ticketswin - with additional income when you got more as 10 tickets (for example - killing 9 Mechs and capturing the base)

When both teams are equal - and it is not longer possible to get 10 tickets - the battle counts as draw. The number of tickets your team have is a factor of income - salvage bonus will not be sold.

[Farix]

Corralis, on 08 October 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:

I don't get why you call assault Capture the Flag because it is nothing like CTF. CTF is where you go and pick up the 'flag' and carry it back to your base to score a point. Assault is Team Deathmatch with a capture mechanic, the same as conquest is Team Deathmatch with several capture mechanics, that's it, nothing else.

Since mechs cannot actually carry anything, the base capture mechanic takes its place. So long as the basic prinicples remains the same, deviations from specific mechanics doesn't make it into something else. If it was Team Deathmatch, capturing the enemy base would NOT be a victory condition.

P.S. Conquest is a form of the Domination scenario but with the home bases acting as resource ponts along with the three other points on the field. Just because you can also kill off the other team to win doesn't make it it into a Team Deathmatch either.

Edited by Farix, 08 October 2013 - 12:31 PM.

[Corralis]

Farix, on 08 October 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Since mechs cannot actually carry anything, the base capture mechanic takes its place. So long as the basic prinicples remains the same, deviations from specific mechanics doesn't make it into something else. If it was Team Deathmatch, capturing the enemy base would NOT be a victory condition.

P.S. Conquest is a form of the Domination scenario but with the home bases acting as resource ponts along with the three other points on the field. Just because you can also kill off the other team to win doesn't make it it into a Team Deathmatch either.

I get what your saying but Capture the Flag and Domination modes exist in games where you can respawn. Obviously you can't respawn in MWO so calling the game modes the same thing is wrong. I think the game modes we have now are basically just TDM with capture mechanics and because I don't think there is another multi-player shooter around that doesn't have respawn (or not many in any case), I don't think you should try to compare MWO to other shooters. In any case, the game modes we have are boring and need changing.