211 replies to this topic

[Infiltrationist]

Would each universe just ally with everyone in it to take the others down? Maybe Star Trek would ally with BT so they could have a good ground force... Or even make mechs with phasers and deflector shields! That would be something.

[Strum Wealh]

Lily from animove, on 20 October 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

you don't lock on, you just beam. The lock on is necessary to make a safe beaming to not make the beaming subject end as a pile of cooking meat, which in the case of beaming to get rid of opponents is nothing you would care about.

And we speak of at least classik Star Trek with kirk and spock

Trek-style transporters (including those actually used in Trek, as well as those used in Stargate) do require a lock in order to be used at all.

Quote

A typical transport sequence began with a lock to coordinates, during which the destination was verified and programmed, via the targeting scanners. Obtaining or maintaining a transporter lock enables the transporter operator to know the subject's location, even in motion, allowing the beaming process to start more quickly. This is an essential safety precaution when a starship away team enters a potentially dangerous situation that would require an emergency beam-out.

A transporter lock was usually maintained by tracing the homing signal of a communicator or combadge. When there was a risk that such devices would be lost in the field or are otherwise unavailable, personnel could be implanted with a subcutaneous transponder before an away mission, to still provide a means to maintain a transporter lock. Alternatively, sensors could be used to scan for the bio-sign or energy signature of a subject, which could then be fed into the transporter's targeting scanner for a lock.

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Chief Engineer B'Elanna Torres invented an emergency measure of locking a transporter beam on to minerals in the target's skeletal system in order to allow transport when bio-signs could not be detected from transporting origins. This allowed personnel to be transported back to the ship, even if regular means of transporter lock failed. She came up with it after a conventional signal lock failed during an emergency beam-out from a Borg cube in 2373.

Quote

When the Asgard first allowed the Tau'ri access to their beaming technology, they placed a series of failsafes into the transporters to prevent the humans from using the technology offensively. Despite this, the Daedalus used its transporters to beam Nuclear warheads onto several Wraith Hive ships (with begrudging help from an Asgard), destroying them. The Wraith, however, were able to develop jamming codes that prevented the transporters from obtaining a lock, making the transporters all but useless against the Wraith.

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Jamming codes are a counter measure to Asgard transporters used by the Wraith. Developed quickly after the arrival of the Daedalus in the Pegasus galaxy, the jamming codes prevent a transporter lock, which effectively neutralizes the transporters as a weapons delivery system into Hive Ships.

[mad kat]

Lily from animove, on 20 October 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

@mad kat

lol, they can't even keep their sh*t together and get betrayed by their own corrupted kind. How would they ever rule over anything else? Star Trek would beam the Space mariens out of their armor and little tin cans.

Warp to earth, beam the emporer form the golden throne into the nexxt pile of poop. proit, all Empire warptravel and whole infrastucture dead with a single beaming action.

Lol It's been a VERY long time since i did games workshop only slightly more expensive than MWO but i actually have a job now so meh . My blood angels furioso dreadnought was rather cool looking but that was about it.

I Have no idea who was any good at what when it came to 40k but it was a progression from air fix models in air cadets lol .

Sorry for OT.

Edited by mad kat, 20 October 2014 - 06:40 AM.

[Infiltrationist]

Strum Wealh, on 20 October 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

Trek-style transporters (including those actually used in Trek, as well as those used in Stargate) do require a lock in order to be used at all.

Sssssoooooo they couldn't easily beam someone out of a moving mech? So I guess I was right.

[Lily from animove]

Mr Psycho, on 20 October 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

Sssssoooooo they couldn't easily beam someone out of a moving mech? So I guess I was right.

they can
the source tells even in motion:

A typical transport sequence began with a lock to coordinates, during which the destination was verified and programmed, via the targeting scanners. Obtaining or maintaining a transporter lock enables the transporter operator to know the subject's location, even in motion, allowing the beaming process to start more quickly. This is an essential safety precaution when a starship away team enters a potentially dangerous situation that would require an emergency beam-out.

[Infiltrationist]

Idk who is right so let's go back to alliances

[Lily from animove]

Marack Drock, on 20 October 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

But to do that for hundreds (if not thousands) of mechs would drain their power levels severely wouldn't it?

I heard mechs are rare aren't they? and when you have space domination, who cares about the time. further, you could rather easily just build some "death beam stations" filled with transporters beaming people into space. scanner could even automatically feed the transporters. I am quite sure cscotty or geordi could pull sich a programm off in a few hours or less. I mean in one of the Star trek movies, where poeple tried to fled those one guys had soem trones marking and kinda instant beaming people off that planet (or somewhere else on the planet).

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 October 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[Infiltrationist]

Mechs aren't rare they fight with them all the time.

Well in certain areas of space they are.

So it depends

[Infiltrationist]

But there are definetly thousands of mechs.

[Infiltrationist]

Ha! I knew mechs weren't rare!

[Strum Wealh]

Marack Drock, on 20 October 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Prime Directive. They wouldn't even touch BT because of it (except Janeway she broke the directive at least once an episode).

You keep saying that, about the Prime Directive... and you're wrong every time you do so.

Quote

There were many exceptions to the applicability of the Prime Directive that were accepted by the Federation... These exceptions generally fell into the following categories...

• Compliance with specific (and valid) orders that could not be followed if the Prime Directive fully applied (e.g., ancillary to a war with the Federation; first contact missions; diplomatic missions; trade negotiations)
  
• The society hails or attacks a Federation vessel

There were, however, two circumstances where the Prime Directive was suspended in its entirety... The second circumstance was General Order 24. That order permitted a starship captain, in certain circumstances, to destroy the entire surface of an inhabited planet and thereby eradicate any societies living there.

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General Order 24: An order to destroy all life on an entire planet. This order has been given by Captain Garth (Antos IV) and Captain Kirk (Eminiar VII). On neither occasion was the order actually fulfilled.

Garth may have explained the spirit of the order when he suggested he gave the order because, "I could say they were actively hostile towards the Federation".

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Starfleet captains themselves had very different personal tolerances for the degree of flexibility to be applied to the Prime Directive. Captain James T. Kirk, noted that the Prime Directive was intended to apply only to living, growing civilizations and felt it was appropriate to interfere where societies had been enslaved or were in a state of total stagnation (also known as an arrested culture). Captain Kirk also at least once attempted to interfere in the internal affairs of a civilization when he believed that higher ethics compelled or justified such actions. On the other hand, both Captains Picard and Janeway were prepared to watch whole societies perish from natural causes rather than interfere – even when others were seeking to prevail upon them that Starfleet's role should permit actively saving societies rather than passively watching them die. This range of conduct could even be found within a single individual: Captain Kathryn Janeway once noted that 23rd century Starfleet officers such as Kirk were "a little too slow to invoke the Prime Directive," but she herself admitted to having "bent it on occasion" during her travels in the Delta Quadrant.

[Nebfer]

Marack Drock, on 20 October 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

There are millions upon millions of mechs. When you consider a single Clan Star is like 3 mechs and a galaxy is a Star times like 30, and there are about 6 galaxies a Clan you are looking at 10s of thousands of active mechs not including the Solahmna units of a half a million which are armed with Elementals and Second Line mechs in each Clan (and there are 17 in the Current universe). So we are looking at nearly 1 million mechs per Clan. Now the Inner Sphere is over 100x as populated with mechs and people than the Clans (not including the periphery factions), with at least 30 million active mechs (not including the caches of ComStar's). There are probably (including all factions by this timeline and the rate mechs are created) about 1 billion to 1.5 billion mechs by my reckoning.

Prime Directive. They wouldn't even touch BT because of it (except Janeway she broke the directive at least once an episode).

Might I ask where did you get the total mech numbers from? Your math is horrendously bad, a Star is 5 mechs, a Cluster at most has 15 Stars, a Galaxy would have 75 Stars in total, in short a Galaxy has at most 375 Mechs, At most theirs 20 Galaxys per clan (I do not know of any clan that actually has 20), yeah no clan has more than 7500 battlemechs.

[Rogue Jedi]

[

Marack Drock, on 20 October 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

Well the Federation would not pose any threat because the Prime Directive keeps them from interfering.

no, it prevents them from interfering with civilizations who have yet to develope warp or FTL capability unless they specifically request help from a more advanced civalisation or the interferiance of a more advance civalisation is what got them into trouble in the first place.

After a race has developed the ability to travel faster than the speed of light the Fedoration will happily accept them as a member and provide technological advances. So the federation would have no problem dealing with the Battletech factions

Marack Drock, on 20 October 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

But to do that for hundreds (if not thousands) of mechs would drain their power levels severely wouldn't it?

eventually, after many thousands of transports, however it was rare for a planet to be defended with as many as 100 Mechs and the Enterpride D was capable of transporting about 10,000 people aboard without power being an issue

Mr Psycho, on 20 October 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Idk who is right so let's go back to alliances

the United Federation of Planets (Starfleet) would be willing to ally with anyone who wanted to be friends, was not evil and had developed FTL travel, so most of the Battletech factions, the Rebel Aliance/New Republic of Star Wars, the Jedi order, not sure about Halo factions, not sure if the Empire would ally with anyone, possibly the Clans, Romulans ect

Mr Psycho, on 20 October 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

But there are definetly thousands of mechs.

yes, split across thousands of planets, many worlds do not have a single Battlemech or Omnimech to defend them

[Rogue Jedi]

Marack Drock, on 20 October 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

There are millions upon millions of mechs. When you consider a single Clan Star is like 3 mechs and a galaxy is a Star times like 30, and there are about 6 galaxies a Clan you are looking at 10s of thousands of active mechs not including the Solahmna units of a half a million which are armed with Elementals and Second Line mechs in each Clan (and there are 17 in the Current universe). So we are looking at nearly 1 million mechs per Clan. Now the Inner Sphere is over 100x as populated with mechs and people than the Clans (not including the periphery factions), with at least 30 million active mechs (not including the caches of ComStar's). There are probably (including all factions by this timeline and the rate mechs are created) about 1 billion to 1.5 billion mechs by my reckoning.

I have been unable to find solid numbers of mechs, but going by clues found on Sarna it looks like Kerinsky took no more than 28,000 Mechs with the exodus, and that was the majority of Mechs in existence at the time.

Now trying to reverse engineer figures for a total number of Clan Mechs from Sarna, I did some maths
A star is 5 Mechs
A cluster is 6-10 stars (30-50 Mechs)
A galaxy is 3-5 clusters (90-250 Mechs)
A torman is more than 4 galaxies, so minimum of 360 mechs, no upper limit, the touman includes Solahmna and reserve forces
It looks like the Wolves had 9 galaxies at one time or another so if we figure based on the maximums at most the Wolves had 2250 (minimum 810) Mechs total.
Wolf was one of the most powerful Clans so it is unlikely that there were as many as 40,000 Clan Mechs in total

Now as the IS had lost much Mech production and had the majority of their military forces leave with the exodus it seems unlikely they would have had more mechs than the Clans do, but again lets be generous and suggest the IS has double the total number of Mechs the Clans do, so total number of Mechs isprobably not more than 120,000, possibly as few as 50,000 total

So I am curious, how did you conclude there are more than a billion Mechs?

[Infiltrationist]

How much of the galaxy have everyone as a whole in BT colonized?

[Nebfer]

Mr Psycho, on 20 October 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

How much of the galaxy have everyone as a whole in BT colonized?

Not even 1% Heres a image, see that small circle around where the Sun is? that is about as much as B-tech has colonized. The clans are a bit beyond that but their just a small cluster of worlds, their closer to the galaxys core by the way.
The inner sphere is about 600 light years across, the Clans about 1500 light years past that in the direction of the galactic core.

[Infiltrationist]

Wow that's... Kinda pathetic. So they have the most powerful ground force but barely colonized even 1% of the galaxy. But I guess having giant mechs makes up for it.

[Nebfer]

Mr Psycho, on 20 October 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

Wow that's... Kinda pathetic. So they have the most powerful ground force but barely colonized even 1% of the galaxy. But I guess having giant mechs makes up for it.

Not really pathetic, Noting that B-tech is rather compact, also considering that Star wars has a vastly faster FTL drive (cross the galaxy in hours to months depending on location), Trek is notionally faster, though I believe their worlds are far more wildly spaced out than in battle tech, though less well traveled areas / longer trips it's slower than battle tech.
Halo I believe uses hibernation for longer trips, after the war with the covenant the UNSCs FTL drive jumps up in capability's.

[Nebfer]

Marack Drock, on 20 October 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

Because of 500 years of Mech Factories making over 300 different designs in the Inner Sphere, about 60 designs in the Clans being produced every year (that is not the number just the number of DESIGNS), and over 30 small factions making mechs of their own. For 500 years.

Therefore if each mech factory produced an optimal amount of 100 of each design it would be close to a couple thousand a month (including Clans) and probably close to 500,000 in a year.

When you consider almost every Canon merc unit, faction, etc has mechs there must be close to 1 billion just to supply each military of each of the 40ish factions. Think about it. There are at least 50 Canon Merc units with at least a few hundred in each then the factions with garrisons of mechs on each planet (a garrison is what 45 mechs) and Hood IV had 4 Garrisons during the Clan Wars (that is 200ish mechs). And there are thousands upon thousands of planets with garrisons and tons else.

In order for there to be enough to fill the role on each planet, each military, and at the rate they'd be produced there has to be close to 1 billion after 500 years of them being created.

Sigh, this is faulty logic, sure you could say they made tens of millions, but their is clear evidence that their are not tens of millions in operation at one time particularly post Star league era, its also making a rather large assumption on B-tech production rates. In the 3020s a good number of mech types where being built on the order of single digits per year (that's 1 to 9 per year). True it was likely higher pre 2800s, you also have a number of types no longer in production at that point or shortly their after. Not to mention some types where only starting their runs in the 2700s, most mechs where not introduced in 2450 you know.

In the 3060s theirs like 400 house Regiments (combined), most worlds probably only had a company or two (say 500 regiments), the clans have under 500 clusters combined, Mercs have around 200 or so regiments, the minor houses, Comstar and WoB could probably add another 2 or 300 regiments. And I AM likely being quite generous.

This totals up to about 1,000 regiments, at 132 per regiment thats only 132,000, the clans could add perhaps another 25,000 being generous.

A B-tech planetary Garrison is going to be lucky to have a even a Battalion of battlemechs in total, let alone a regiment worth. Even then a number likely are using armed industrial mechs, The Houses standing forces in total are likely around 700 to 1,500 regiments of all types, the majority being infantry. Most world garrisons are harder to put down but seem to have at lest 10ish regiments (again most infantry, some armor, very few mechs), perhaps only 2 or 3 being available at any one time.


Fact the US built some 1,200 F-15 fighters, but current operators indicate theirs under 400 in use, so where the other 800? According to you the US air force should have over 1,000 of the things in service. Many mechs have either been destroyed in combat, scraped for parts, decommissioned for what ever reason... or in some cases stored for later use. While it's not unheard of for a battlemech to last for a few hundred years, most are not likely to last more than 50 or so years, let alone a century.

If a House had 10 million battlemechs where are they? A house has around 80 regiments of battlemechs, each having a known size of around 132 mechs, that is under 11,000 mechs. Just 1 million mechs would allow a house to have over 7,000 regiments of battlemechs, which not even the Star league even had that many (It had around 2,000 or so).

Edited by Nebfer, 20 October 2014 - 10:19 PM.

[Infiltrationist]

Speaking of the U.S. Do you think they are designing mechs but are keeping it classified? Because I do.

Edited by Mr Psycho, 21 October 2014 - 05:21 AM.