211 replies to this topic

[Lagit6]

If it was truly a battle between the four, wouldn't Q (Star Trek) just use his godly powers to turn everyone into fluffy bunnies?




Just look at his face!

[990Dreams]

This is the one thing I will not allow: "Q". It just gets too unfair. So assume Q or any other omnipotents are out of the picture.

[CyclonerM]

DavidHurricane, on 17 December 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

This is the one thing I will not allow: "Q". It just gets too unfair. So assume Q or any other omnipotents are out of the picture.

So no Kerenskys? :'(

[990Dreams]

CyclonerM, on 17 December 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

So no Kerenskys? :'(

He isn't god-like like Q.

[Lagit6]

But seriously, fair enough with the no Q thing. But overall Star Trek all way, they just have superior tech in most ways; argued this so many times on factpile

Edited by lagit6, 17 December 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[990Dreams]

Star Wars has shields (at least the Death Star did). But idk if all of them do.

[Lagit6]

Yeah the picture was more of a joke as some don't have shields dependeing on the class of ship
But yeah Star Wars does also have shields on some ships.
Still think Star Trek has this one, but that's my opinion, what's yours David?

Edit: Another note, if Star Wars shields were useful, how come fighters can alsways fly through them? not very good deflector shields if you ask me.. If you want me to qoute points in the film where this happened just ask, but they always manage to fly through these "shields" and blow important stuff up. Also a lot of Star Wars weapons are point blank range, weapons only ususally fire when close up which they call "in range" with the exception of the Death Star. Don't get me wrong i love Star Wars, but it can be seen to be at a huge disadvantage, unless you can prove me otherwise.

One more thing, what about the Krenim Warship? It could easily warp straight to Coruscant and wipe everything from time itself.

Edited by lagit6, 18 December 2013 - 03:40 AM.

[Lagit6]

Also..

Kitane, on 26 September 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

The God Emperor Of Mankind is not impressed with your candidates, OP.

What, that filthy corpse on a chair rotting? DEATH TO THE FLASE EMPEROR!

MnDragon, on 04 October 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Lets see, we would have to make this a battle of attrition sooo... MechWarrior we have the inner sphere and periphery which amounts to about 1/8 of the galaxy explored. Star Trek, they are all over the A quadrant, and at best have about 3/4 of the galaxy explored. Halo, not sure about galaxy exploration, but since they are only encountering their first alien race, I would say less than in battletech. Star Wars on the other hand not only has the entire galaxy explored, but colonized, built advanced civilizations, mastered intergalactic travel ( they have a ship that can make the Kessel run in 12 Parsecs), and even have nonadvanced civilizations that can destroy mechs..( read ewoks) I'm going to have to say Star Wars for the win!

I disagree with this, you didn't take into account the exploration of other races in Star Trek such as the Dominion, Borg and even Species 8472 (as all factions are allies). Also i know you are not sure about Halo but thinking about it IMO the Covenant and Forerunners must have quite a bit of exploration done. But fair enough on the Star Wars point especailly Ewoks .

Edit: About that Kessel run in 12 Parsecs... Parsecs are a unit of distance not speed. The Star Wars hyperdrive is always the same speed plus you must plan the route beforehand to avoid large objects. So the "ship that can make the Kessel run in 12 Parsecs" actually found the shortest route

Edited by lagit6, 18 December 2013 - 03:38 AM.

[990Dreams]

lagit6, on 18 December 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:

Yeah the picture was more of a joke as some don't have shields dependeing on the class of ship
But yeah Star Wars does also have shields on some ships.
Still think Star Trek has this one, but that's my opinion, what's yours David?

Edit: Another note, if Star Wars shields were useful, how come fighters can alsways fly through them? not very good deflector shields if you ask me.. If you want me to qoute points in the film where this happened just ask, but they always manage to fly through these "shields" and blow important stuff up. Also a lot of Star Wars weapons are point blank range, weapons only ususally fire when close up which they call "in range" with the exception of the Death Star. Don't get me wrong i love Star Wars, but it can be seen to be at a huge disadvantage, unless you can prove me otherwise.

One more thing, what about the Krenim Warship? It could easily warp straight to Coruscant and wipe everything from time itself.

Star Trek and Mechwarrior are the contenders for me. Halo and Star Wars simply cannot stack against the weapons and technology of these guys. As for whether it'd be MW or star Trek, I can't decide ATM.

[CyclonerM]

DavidHurricane, on 17 December 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

He isn't god-like like Q.

Most Clanners believe he is

[Rigger]

Now this is saying that its you must destroy them or your whole universe is gone.

Has everyone forgotten about the Naval ships of Battletech? Yes drop ships and jump ships.. but umm Hello.. There are battlehsips, destroyers, etc also. http://www.sarna.net...WarShip_classes

Now yeah StarTrek shields woudl/could probably hold off against alot of the weapons, not quite sure how ST shields hold against ballistics. and just the sheer mass of ordinance those ships and put out also.

StarWars - People keep forgetting about the Sith and the Jedi. There is the strongest power of them-all. I do remember a humanoid rabbit type race. They had a Jedi master that was so strong ,while they were fighting in space against multiple Imperial destroyers, He was able to move the destoryers and crush them by use of the force.
Jedi vs Battlemechs? pfft.. -Force crush- now what? and you really think that a jedi couldnt get onto one of the battlemechs itself? yeah lightsabers vs mech pilot not a good ending there.
Halo? Startrek and starwars universes would wipe that out quick enough.

In the end Starwars would prevail.

[990Dreams]

The Jedi are small and frail. And a Lightsaber cannot deflect a laser (blasters are not lasers they are bursts of plasma). Jedi cannot violate special relativity (lazers or any other light-speed weapon can beat them). Hyper-light-speed travel is different though, so they can sense incoming vessels.

[Steven Dixon]

MnDragon, on 04 October 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Lets see, we would have to make this a battle of attrition sooo... MechWarrior we have the inner sphere and periphery which amounts to about 1/8 of the galaxy explored. Star Trek, they are all over the A quadrant, and at best have about 3/4 of the galaxy explored. Halo, not sure about galaxy exploration, but since they are only encountering their first alien race, I would say less than in battletech. Star Wars on the other hand not only has the entire galaxy explored, but colonized, built advanced civilizations, mastered intergalactic travel ( they have a ship that can make the Kessel run in 12 Parsecs), and even have nonadvanced civilizations that can destroy mechs..( read ewoks) I'm going to have to say Star Wars for the win!

I have to say that this is evidence to the contrary. After all how scary are SW mechs if teddy bears can break them with sticks and teenagers can defeat them by looping rope around their legs and their big bad space station was destroyed by the same kid in a fighter. How are they going to defeat a Locust when their tactics of using sticks and stones and string magically don't work .

Of course I don't think I can give it to Mechwarrior unfortunately because they haven't even mastered guided missiles. ST hasn't even discovered body armor or tanks and Q is routinely thwarted by a bald elderly captain. PIcard would be a major asset to them but if its TV Picard he would just want to talk and if it was Movie Picard he would just get his crew all killed and engage a Jedi in hand to hand fighting. Halo can't win because all of their soldiers would be spending the entire battle tea-bagging the enemy and 40K wouldn't win because they are basically what would have happened to the Inner Sphere if the Word of Blake took over. So I guess that leaves...Babylon 5?

Actually I have to give it to Robotech, their genetically engineered super large lawyers are OP.

Edited by Steven Dixon, 19 December 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

Anything you can do:



can do better.

[CyclonerM]

Steven Dixon, on 19 December 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

Actually I have to give it to Robotech, their genetically engineered super large lawyers are OP.

This! Bred for Law!
However, this is going to be very complex. I will try to divide the discussion focusing a bit on different aspects. I played very little Halo and never watched Star Trek so please fill out my post if you can

-Exploration: now i have almost no idea of what ST and Halo star ships are capable to do but i assume they can both travel faster than light.
BT: Inner Sphere, with a radius of only 450-550 light years. A very small portion of the galaxy.
SW: A whole galaxy! They could hide everywhere and strike everywhere! Also i do not remember of any recharging time for FTL travel systems.
Halo:
ST:

-Soldiers:
BT: The Inner Sphere has common infantry who could potentially fare well enough against droids or clone troopers (with their very good aim... ). Later in the timeline both Clans and spheroids have Battle Armor, quite an improvement over said troopers, but Elementals and friends would be for sure at a heavvy numerical disadvantage.
SW: regular troops, clone troopers with horrible aim, stupid droids and strange aliens, plus Jedi and Sith warriors. Ok, they can use the Force, but could EVERY Jedi destroy a BattleMech with the Force? Could a light saber deflect a PPC?
ST:
HALO:
-Vehicles:
BT: BattleMechs. Even a Locust could easily but slowly take apart an AT-AT! They are faster, more mobile, and with heavier firepower than any SW vehicle. Aerospace assets is harder:probably BT fighters have a greater range but they might be less manouverable. BT warships should be bigger than regular SW big starships and have roughly a similar firepower. Darth Vader's ship would be a far tougher opponent.
Tanks and hovercraft may be similar to those you can see in SW but BattleMechs would probably have the edge.
ST:
Halo:

Edited by CyclonerM, 19 December 2013 - 12:54 PM.

[990Dreams]

^ that helps a lot. I don't know much about Halo. But Star Trek has some destructive weapons (i.e antimatter cannons, gravity torpedos, etc.)

[Nebfer]

Rise from the dead.
Found this from a Google search, looking for a halo bashing...

Theirs a bit of a lack of evidence being used...

Lets brake it down a bit

I would rank them as such
Space
Starwars
Star Trek
Halo
Battletech

Ground
Battletech
Star Wars
Star Trek
Halo

Heres a more detailed rankings, and some explanations

FTL speeds
Starwars: Starwars ships can cross their own Galaxy in days to months depending on where your traveling I.e. on the well traveled super highways or trail blazing off less well traveled paths. Said galaxy is roughly the size of our own.
Star Trek: the Techmanuals (not necessarily cannon IIRC but where used when writing the show, so I'll use them) indicate that it will take them years to cross their own galaxy, indeed Voyager has them at a cruising speed of around 1,000 light years per year, this speed is mentioned in a early DS9 episode as well, though short term more local speeds they can go quite a bit faster, though not necessarily faster than Wars speeds (though "off roading" for wars can be slower at times than trek). So while Wars is faster over all their average speeds can be a bit situational.

Both Halo and Battletech have the slowest FTL speeds, Though post War UNSC is notably faster than battletech perhaps on par with a typical speed Trek, on the other hand UNSC speeds during the war has some indications of under 1,000 light years per year is a typical speed, which is notably slower than battletechs 1,500 to 3,000 light years (3,000 Ly ironically is roughly Warp 9.6 in trek).

Territory
Starwars has the largest territory, controlling the better part of a galaxy, all the other factions only control a tiny fraction of one. Starwars has more worlds than the next one on the list by more than a factor of 100, and that faction has roughly an equal number of worlds as the other two put together (said faction happens to be battletech).

Military capacity
Star wars has the largest navy, The Empire supposedly has tens of thousands of Stardestroyers, with larger numbers of smaller ships...
Trek the Federation only has a few thousand ships, upwards of 10,000 by some calculations IIRC.
Halo the UNSC had at most around 1,000 capital ships AFAIK
Battletech well depending on the time frame, ranges from a few thousand capital ships to only a hand full of capital ships, augmented by numbers of smaller ships (combat dropships).

Sub light speed mobility
Agility wise I would give this to Star Trek
Acceleration wise, theirs some evidence for 1,000+ G acceleration rates for Wars but that's possibly pushing it a bit, I would say Trek and Wars are roughly equal. Battletech is the loser here, average rates of 1G to at best 12Gs on some fighters, is significantly slower than wars and trek. Halo is a bit harder to pin down, post war it's faster (but not as fast as the others), during the war the UNSC is more comparable to B-techs rates... on the all it's roughly comparable to battletech.

Fire power
Ah probably the most controversial argument to deal with
Per some Starwars books Starwars wins down right hard, though theirs not much support for said figures in the rest of the universe, though you can find some here and their. Even with out said figures Star wars is I would say roughly on par with Trek in terms of firepower. Both can find comparable feats in their works (that being in the double to triple digit megaton range).
As for Halo and Battletech, well Halo is a bit of an odd duck, like star wars it has some off the wall numbers that have little support with the rest of the series, but regardless Halo capital weapons can get a respectable mid kiloton to low megaton range fairly easily.
Battletech on the other hand is sadly the loser in all of this getting at best low level kilotons for it's capital weapons.

Military Industry:
Starwars has multiple worlds that are ringed by orbital ship yards, none of the other factions have close to that level of ship production.

Due to it's vastly better FTL speeds, much larger military and not to say controlled territory, Starwars will be at best difficult to beat.

But how do they match up on the ground?

Battletech dose surprisingly well here. It's only real competitor is Star wars, though Star trek can be a problem if they use their cards right. Though to be fair i'm not as well versed with the other series than I am with battletech.

First off Halo
While Halo seems like it can do well, on examination it seems the UNSC could have difficulty's dealing with a real life modern military. The Scorpion Tank has a gun we stopped using on front line tanks more than 50 years ago, and is massively bigger than any real world tank. Their Basic Assault rifle cartridge is supposedly the real life 7.62 NATO (seriously? In 500 years they did not invent something better?)... And one can go on...

Star Trek
Well they do not have much in the way of ground equipment, most of the time they send guys down in Pajamas with dustbusters often with the ships command staff... Though Said dustbuster can be an effective tool if used right, though Teloporters are probably their biggest ace up their sleeve (though often down due to various techno babble), though if available portable shields are also a boon. However for the most part they seem to be used as light infantry and info on heavier weapons is lacking.

Star Wars:
Star wars has a fairly fleshed out military force, with a wide range of capability's, it's infantry are equipped with a wide range of weapons ranging from small arms, squad automatic weapons and anti armor weapons (until recently Halo did not even have a true squad automatic weapon). While it's Walkers are the best known it dose have a range of Highly capable Tanks, though it dose have a few head scratchers. Over all Starwars ground wise should be capable of giving battletech a run for it's money, though it's possible that it could be stronger.

Battletech
The verse I am most familiar with
The biggest issue for battletech, is in raw numbers, batteltech militarys are smaller than one would expect, most worlds seem to have under 30 regiments, and that's being a bit optimistic.

At the lest if their is one area that battletech dose well is with it's battle armored troops, and post 3067 era battletech has legions of them.
Lets compare the iconic Elemental Suit to the other Iconic powered suited trooper here Halos Spartans (Starwars has the Darktroopers and the Zero G Stormtroopers though, and thoughs can be scary in their own right).

Mass
MJOLNIR: ~450 kg
Elemental: 1,000 kg

Power Plant
MJOLNIR: Micro Fusion reactor
Elemental: High capacity Battery (24 hour combat use duration)

Ground Mobility
MJOLNIR: 40+ kph
Elemental: ~11kph ground, 90m Jump capability

Life Support
MJOLNIR: Supposedly 90 minutes
Elemental: 12 hours

Electronics
MJOLNIR: AFAIK, Helmet HUD, Motion Tracking, IR, Radio and a optional AI
Elemental: HUD, IR, Radar, Night Vision, Radio, and possibly a few others

Armor protection
MJOLNIR: unknown mass, Titanium alloy, most models incorporate a shield generator, highly resilient to most infantry and light vehicle weapons
Elemental: 250kg of B-tech Standard armor (super hard steel alloy & boron nitride composite), resilient to small arms and most vehicle grade weapons, capable of withstanding a burst of 100mm shells (AC-10), a pair of standard Medium lasers or a Particle Projection Cannon hit.

Weapons
MJOLNIR: None, armored gloves allow it to use any regular infantry weapons, commonly an assault rifle
Elemental: Built in detachable missile launcher with four Short Range missiles, a configurable arm mounted weapons station allows for a wide range of weapons to be installed for a range of missions, common weapons are a rotary 13mm MG (1,500 rounds), a small laser cannon, a flame thrower and so on, these weapons are comparable to their vehicular based counter parts. Lastly an arm mounted anti personnel weapons mount allows for a wide range of infantry weapons for light dutys.

And to say little of the other battletech units

[990Dreams]

Swapped Halo for Pacific Rim.

[StompingOnTanks]

Pacific Rim mechs would just crush everything. Anything that can withstand being punched by a Kaiju probably isn't going to go down with a few dozen Gauss Rifle hits. You'd need an orbital strike to kill those things.

[Bagheera]

Actually, a battle between a fleet of ships of one's choosing from the Star Trek canon and a fleet of ships from the Battletech "Naval" rules might be pretty interesting. Some of the weaponry they bring to bear is impressive to say the least. Of course I'm on Team Defiant, but I'm in that extra nerdy "No, DS9 was the best series of all the ST series!" camp as well.

Pretty sure there are extra-dimensional forces in the ST canon (The "Prophets" that exist in all time simultaneously come to mind) that could give the Emperor a run for his money as well. But maybe he was able to manipulate the past and future at his whim in some book I never read.