27 replies to this topic

[The Boz]

I'm sticking with the group of mechs. I'm the Atlas, that means I'm in front. As we turn a corner, I spot a Cat half a click out. I start sniping it out and running back into cover while it's launching LRMs at me. After I kill it, I move back and turn towards the group, who have not engaged in combat with the Cat with me. I wonder why. I then see that there are seven enemy mechs right behind me. Not a single one of them was targetted. Not a single one of them appeared on my radar. Not a single comment about there being mechs behind us in team chat.
So yeah. PUGs. The C3 system. We kinda need it.
It is impossible to make random people use the Target key, let alone actually write information into the team or lance chat. What we need is the true C3 Master computer in EVERY MECH, installed as a free and unlocked Module. It appears on your radar? It also appears on EVERY radar of EVERY friendly mech with a C3 Master installed.
This will alleviate the PUG vs Premade communication and organization difference, and would lessen the "you start with no modules, but that's totally not a disadvantage" effect.

[Shadey99]

Err... every mech in this game gets a C3 master system for free... C3 allowed you to share sensor information among units in a lance. All mechs in MWO do this if you just target a mech. The only thing of (questionable) value a C3 unit could add is the ability to target all mechs in sensor range of 1 mech. Several people have suggested this as a module for 'scouts' to use.

[WarGruf]

I believe Shadey99, The Boz is referring to Vivox's C3 voip system... Its supposed to be part of the game, like in Arma2-3 you have inbuilt Voip. And for all the Naysayers out there C3 is actually pretty decent since the new version came out

[Pyrrho]

The Boz, on 24 September 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

So yeah. PUGs. The C3 system. We kinda need it.

It is impossible to make random people use the Target key, let alone actually write information into the team or lance chat.

Impossible? The targeting thing people just need to understand how to do, maybe via a tutorial (which could be available soon!); impossible to write in chat? Does your keyboard not work? I know in a firefight trying to chat can be tough, but calling it impossible seems to imply you just aren't good at it yet. A built-in voice chat system would be great as well, but I have coped with the need to use the chat system. I rarely have problems typing what I see in the most general terms possible ("D line clear"; "6 heading thru tunnel!", "F6! F6! F6!".

The problem I have is that people have a lot to pay attention to in-game, and often times do not see (or know to look for) chat messages.

WarGuff: I think he is referring to Master C3 computer tech. C3 VOIP integration would be nice, though

[Doomstryke]

The c3 voip system seems to be decent according to a buddy of mine that uses it. If you have the check box in the options on for c3 and running the app it automatically drops you in the same room as anyone else on your team if they are also running c3. Wish it was built in to the game but that isn't a bad option. He says he gets randomly dropped into a room with one or 2 others running it but its really not that often and only probably once or twice a day when he plays

Edited by Doomstryke, 24 September 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[The Boz]

Shadey99, on 24 September 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Err... every mech in this game gets a C3 master system for free... C3 allowed you to share sensor information among units in a lance. All mechs in MWO do this if you just target a mech. The only thing of (questionable) value a C3 unit could add is the ability to target all mechs in sensor range of 1 mech. Several people have suggested this as a module for 'scouts' to use.

But we don't get to share sensor information, do we? We only share information about a mech that we select as a target. This allows mechs to move freely if untargeted, and remain unnoticed by players that don't have direct sensors or line of sight to them; something that is trivially avoided by an organized premade on VOIP.
Additionally, the target information we DO share is shoddy. We have no way of knowing WHO or HOW MANY friendlies targeted a particular mech. No focus fire bonus or encouragement comes from it.

WarGruf, on 24 September 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

I believe Shadey99, The Boz is referring to Vivox's C3 voip system... Its supposed to be part of the game, like in Arma2-3 you have inbuilt Voip. And for all the Naysayers out there C3 is actually pretty decent since the new version came out

I was talking about the C3 system from lore. VOIP with randoms would be insufferable. It has always been insufferable, in every single game that has it. Taking time off in the middle of a fight to mute mourawns in order to hear my teammate's useful information is not my idea of fun. And the screams and cries of a noob jenner yelling "I charged them, why didn't anyone follow, waah waah!" isn't entertaining either.

Pyrrho, on 24 September 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

Impossible? The targeting thing people just need to understand how to do, maybe via a tutorial (which could be available soon!); impossible to write in chat? Does your keyboard not work? I know in a firefight trying to chat can be tough, but calling it impossible seems to imply you just aren't good at it yet. A built-in voice chat system would be great as well, but I have coped with the need to use the chat system. I rarely have problems typing what I see in the most general terms possible ("D line clear"; "6 heading thru tunnel!", "F6! F6! F6!".

The sentence reads "It is impossible to make random people use the Target key, let alone actually write information into the team or lance chat."
That means that it is both "impossible to make random people use the Target key" and "impossible to make random people write information into the team or lance chat".
So yeah, reading with understanding. It's real important. I have no problems using the chat to relay important information to my team, but in 9 out of 10 matches, I'm the only one doing it. In 1 out of 100 matches, a teammate shoots me for being "boring".

Edited by The Boz, 24 September 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[Shadey99]

WarGruf, on 24 September 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

I believe Shadey99, The Boz is referring to Vivox's C3 voip system... Its supposed to be part of the game, like in Arma2-3 you have inbuilt Voip. And for all the Naysayers out there C3 is actually pretty decent since the new version came out

"What we need is the true C3 Master computer in EVERY MECH, installed as a free and unlocked Module. It appears on your radar? It also appears on EVERY radar of EVERY friendly mech with a C3 Master installed." ... I'm pretty sure he meant the C3 in TT.

[Shadey99]

The Boz, on 24 September 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

But we don't get to share sensor information, do we? We only share information about a mech that we select as a target. This allows mechs to move freely if untargeted, and remain unnoticed by players that don't have direct sensors or line of sight to them; something that is trivially avoided by an organized premade on VOIP.

Additionally, the target information we DO share is shoddy. We have no way of knowing WHO or HOW MANY friendlies targeted a particular mech. No focus fire bonus or encouragement comes from it.

As I pointed out the ability to share all sensor information has been brought up. I personally would like to see targeting info more limited without a real TT c3 module, but with much better communication options (quick commands/voice commands/VOIP) as default.

A 'scout' with Tag or BAP and C3 would have a real purpose to rely details on enemy movement and act as a spotter.

[Pyrrho]

The Boz, on 24 September 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

The sentence reads "It is impossible to make random people use the Target key, let alone actually write information into the team or lance chat."
That means that it is both "impossible to make random people use the Target key" and "impossible to make random people write information into the team or lance chat".
So yeah, reading with understanding. It's real important.

Understood. The misunderstanding comes from minor ambiguity. Writing without ambiguity. it is real important, too. Though, I do concede my comprehension could have been better.

[aniviron]

Pyrrho, on 24 September 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

Impossible? The targeting thing people just need to understand how to do, maybe via a tutorial (which could be available soon!); impossible to write in chat? Does your keyboard not work? I know in a firefight trying to chat can be tough, but calling it impossible seems to imply you just aren't good at it yet. A built-in voice chat system would be great as well, but I have coped with the need to use the chat system. I rarely have problems typing what I see in the most general terms possible ("D line clear"; "6 heading thru tunnel!", "F6! F6! F6!".

The problem I have is that people have a lot to pay attention to in-game, and often times do not see (or know to look for) chat messages.

The problem is not that he doesn't know how to hit r or to type in grid coordinates, it's that trying to teach your teammates to do this in the 30 seconds before battle engages is essentially impossible, and in the not-at-all-uncommon situation where the matchmaker drops you into games where six of your teammates are so new they can't break 100 damage, trying to teach team tactics and coordination is just not going to happen.

What he wants is a system that helps people perform effective recon tasks without having an in-depth understanding of the game (example: saying f6 is great, but new teammates may not immediately know where that is or where it means the enemy will go, whereas veterans know just about where the enemy team is and where they will go from there) so at the very least they are helping out by being able to relay target data and positioning to friendlies, and in turn get more information themselves.

And yes, as you yourself point out, even good players will miss chat messages when they are concentrating intensely on the task at hand. The most recent online first person game I played that did not have a built-in voice feature was Unreal Tournament; you know, the one that was released in 1999. If almost every major first person multiplayer shooter released since then has built in voip, I'm not sure why it's such a struggle for MWO to do the same. At the very least, if the devs continue to insist that built in voip is a horrible demon invention foisted onto us by the elder gods in some nefarious scheme, they could give us in-game abilities that let people mark and share targets more easily, which would go a long way towards alleviating the need for voip.

[DocBach]

Shadey99, on 24 September 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Err... every mech in this game gets a C3 master system for free... C3 allowed you to share sensor information among units in a lance. All mechs in MWO do this if you just target a mech. The only thing of (questionable) value a C3 unit could add is the ability to target all mechs in sensor range of 1 mech. Several people have suggested this as a module for 'scouts' to use.

first, thats incorrect, we don't have any of the added benefits of C3.

C3 negates accuracy loss due to range by using the spotters range. A way to implement it would be almost like an advanced zoom module that uses the C3 spotters location to determine how much zoom you get on a target. It should also allow you to target any 'Mech on a spotting 'Mechs sensors, rather than just 'Mechs they have targeted.

'Mechs can share target information via standard sensors without C3, per the Tech Manual

Second, he's talking about the VOIP which I agree, we need some kind of integrated chat.

[Roland]

Quote

I wonder why. I then see that there are seven enemy mechs right behind me. Not a single one of them was targetted. Not a single one of them appeared on my radar. Not a single comment about there being mechs behind us in team chat.
So yeah. PUGs. The C3 system. We kinda need it.

Dude, no one on your whole team knew how to target mechs.
You lost that fight before it even started. Voice comms wasn't gonna fix it.

[Pyrrho]

Also, Terra Therma should have a dedicated button to press that scrolls "DON'T CLOG THE CHOKE!!!" across everyone's reticle.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Boz, on 24 September 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

I'm sticking with the group of mechs. I'm the Atlas, that means I'm in front.

Stopped reading right there. If you are in the front in the slowest Mech your team is boning you.

[RandomLurker]

I rarely/never have this problems in my matches, except where ECM is involved (Atlas grrrrr.....). I assume that means you're in a low ELO matchup and thus playing with completely new players. As others mentioned, that's to be expected from people that are still learning the game.

[Igchy]

Doomstryke, on 24 September 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

The c3 voip system seems to be decent according to a buddy of mine that uses it. If you have the check box in the options on for c3 and running the app it automatically drops you in the same room as anyone else on your team if they are also running c3. Wish it was built in to the game but that isn't a bad option. He says he gets randomly dropped into a room with one or 2 others running it but its really not that often and only probably once or twice a day when he plays

WOW i just know that and i've been using C3 for a long time.They should promote this function more to get everyone to use c3 ,It would solve pug VS premade problem (maybe).

Edited by Igchy, 25 September 2013 - 07:52 AM.

[StaIker]

C3 is only useful for team coordination and genuine multi-player where a group of people is expected to work together and not just walk together. While I would love C3 features and data sharing, I don't think PGI is interested in that sort of content, given they have all but ignored that entire side of the game.

[King Picollo]

I mash "R" on anything i see, i try and give out locations if i can too.

I don't understand why other people don't, maybe they don't know how?

[Joseph Mallan]

Pyrrho, on 24 September 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Also, Terra Therma should have a dedicated button to press that scrolls "DON'T CLOG THE CHOKE!!!" across everyone's reticle.

Pyrrho, on 24 September 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Also, Terra Therma should have a dedicated button to press that scrolls "DON'T CLOG THE CHOKE!!!" across everyone's reticle.

Pyrrho, on 24 September 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Also, Terra Therma should have a dedicated button to press that scrolls "DON'T CLOG THE CHOKE!!!" across everyone's reticle.

Pyrrho, on 24 September 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Also, Terra Therma should have a dedicated button to press that scrolls "DON'T CLOG THE CHOKE!!!" across everyone's reticle.

Pyrrho, on 24 September 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Also, Terra Therma should have a dedicated button to press that scrolls "DON'T CLOG THE CHOKE!!!" across everyone's reticle.

This CANNOT be said enough times!!!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 26 September 2013 - 03:17 AM.

[Komagn]

Yes, game needs VOIP to make communicating easier. Most shooters have it. It's either part of the game or part of the system that runs the game.

Borderlands has it but I believe it's part of GameSpy.
CoD has it
CS/TF2 has it as well as Steam having a built in voice option for any games that don't have anything.
BF has it