178 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

DocBach, on 24 September 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Except that its stock engine restriction would make it much slower than any of the other light 'mechs used and like Peef said would be largely ineffective against anything other than lights and effected heavily by ECM?

The Javelin's stock engine is 180. Lights in MWO use the formula of stock engine rating * 1.4 to determine their maximum engine restriction (and can't go over 152 kph or whatever). 180 * 1.4 = 252. This basically puts it at Spider speed.

Edited by FupDup, 24 September 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[Orkhepaj]

nice qq
lights needs a nerf thats for sure

[DocBach]

Puts it at stock spider speed with the largest engine it can take, and the engine cap is only suppose to be in effect until they can figure out how to make it not break the netcode, so when that is fixed/MASC gets added the Spider and other lights are going to be able to fly right by it. They could also balance it with hit boxes - those big missile packs could soak up all the damage to make XL a risk to take to limit the payload to engine ratio.

Edited by DocBach, 24 September 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[Deathlike]

DocBach, on 24 September 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Except that its stock engine restriction would make it much slower than any of the other light 'mechs used and like Peef said would be largely ineffective against anything other than lights and effected heavily by ECM?

I'm reading the Sarna article of the Javelin... and it's not really a SRM/Streak boat and more of an slow light energy boat.

The variant with 7 meds puts the Jenner-F to shame, but it'll probably be played like a medium (think BJ-1X)

[Gaan Cathal]

DocBach, on 24 September 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Except that its stock engine restriction would make it much slower than any of the other light 'mechs used and like Peef said would be largely ineffective against anything other than lights and effected heavily by ECM?

It has the same stock speed as the Commando and Raven, and would be completely unaffected by ECM because every SSRM user with a braincell runs a BAP.

[Mehlan]

Quote

I find it hilarious that you gripe about light mechs not taking damage, but then insist that the speed cap should be removed, which would make the problem even worse.

Uhm... It's his last line that you quored, which I removed one sentence to make it easier for you to read....

Quote

15: Speed has been capped for what, a full year? Where is the work/news on netcode improvements so Lights can play without an artificial restriction?

[FupDup]

DocBach, on 24 September 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Puts it at stock spider speed with the largest engine it can take. How many spiders keep the stock engine? They could also balance it with hit boxes - those big missile packs could soak up all the damage to make XL a risk to take to limit the payload to engine ratio.

A 30 ton mech using an XL 250 will go 148.5 kph after using speed tweak. Spider stock speed with a 240 engine is 142.6 if you count speed tweek.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 24 September 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

The Javelin's stock engine is 180. Lights in MWO use the formula of stock engine rating * 1.4 to determine their maximum engine restriction (and can't go over 152 kph or whatever). 180 * 1.4 = 252. This basically puts it at current Spider speed.

Fixed for you.

7 med ~150kph 30 tonner (ok, that probably won't be fielded, maybe more like 4 med, 3 SL/SPL). That is kinda scary.

Edited by Deathlike, 24 September 2013 - 12:45 PM.

[DocBach]

Deathlike, on 24 September 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

I'm reading the Sarna article of the Javelin... and it's not really a SRM/Streak boat and more of an slow light energy boat.

The variant with 7 meds puts the Jenner-F to shame, but it'll probably be played like a medium (think BJ-1X)

The stock variants for this timeline are the 10N, 10F, and 10P.

The 10N is the low tech level version from 3025 which has 2 SRM-6's as its only weapons, with 4 tons of armor. Sort of like a jumping Commando. The 10F is like a mini-Jenner F, replacing the missiles with two medium lasers per torso. The 10P is the 3050 version, which drops a SRM-6 pack for two SSRM-2s.

The 11 series Jav's don't come out until the 3060's.

Edited by DocBach, 24 September 2013 - 12:46 PM.

[Chemie]

hmmmm...spider is bugged. I can only image the flea is even worse.....

I guess Locust is the next one we see.

[Deathlike]

DocBach, on 24 September 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

The stock variants for this timeline are the 10N, 10F, and 10P.

The 10N is the low tech level version from 3025 which has 2 SRM-6's as its only weapons, with 4 tons of armor. Sort of like a jumping Commando. The 10F is like a mini-Jenner F, replacing the missiles with two medium lasers per torso. The 10P is the 3050 version, which drops a SRM-6 pack for two SSRM-2s.

Well, now you've downplayed it to "meh" from "could be awesome". I'm sure some hardpoints would have to be added though.

[El Death Smurf]

some might argue that the broken hit-box-spider needs to be removed... I mean, it has a damage filtration system on it ro something because I have seen some wonky **** this last month. ive seen a team mate shoot a SHUT DOWN spider in the leg with 2large lasers and 5 smalls at 30m, get a component destruction notice, and then when the spider started up, it ran off missing only ONE ARM. lights need work. lets not muddle the water with more broken mechs.

[DocBach]

Deathlike, on 24 September 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

Well, now you've downplayed it to "meh" from "could be awesome". I'm sure some hardpoints would have to be added though.

If its anything like PGI has done in the past they'll probably double the missile HP's for each torso, so instead of 2 for the 10N it'd get 2 per side torso, maybe 5 or 6 for the 10P. You know, just enough hardpoints for them to be crippled by ghost heat.

The point is, though, that Peef wants more variety in lights. The Javelin is the only light in the timeline left that would have any sort of utility that would provide a unique role. The Firestarter is a flamer boat that would just have its weapons pulled for lasers, the Urbanmech runs 32kph, the Panther doesn't go much faster, and the Wolfhound does nothing the JR7-F doesn't do much better with the ability to jump.

[Blaze32]

PEEFsmash, on 24 September 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

And with no MASC and no speed-cap increase, Locusts will be by far the worst mech in the game, and will be strictly inferior to already released lights.

anyone think 360 torso twist...

PEEFsmash, on 24 September 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

You say they can't pump out a mech overnight, but they have pumped out something like 35 mech variants since the last release of a light mech. 35 variants, and 7 Hero Mechs.

Also, the reason that light mechs don't have any variation is because of my points 11-14. There is no variety of light weaponry. The only viable light weapons for serious play are medium lasers and streaks, and streaks are only good against other lights, and are most effective as filler-weapons on Heavies and Assaults to braindead-easy kill lights.

If we had ER Smalls, ER Mediums, useful Smalls, Small Pulses and Medium Pulses, as well as SRMs that did 2.5 damage, useful NARC, Heavy Machineguns and Light Autocannons, then you would see a wealth of variety in the Light class.

with SRMs that do 2.0 damage i can consistently get 600 + damage with my jenner

EDIT: Proof! http://i.imgur.com/u4XTh4L.jpg http://i.imgur.com/7DOE8ac.jpg?1 (one is old because i dont take that many pics...

Edited by Blaze32, 24 September 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[stjobe]

El Death Smurf, on 24 September 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

some might argue that the broken hit-box-spider needs to be removed... I mean, it has a damage filtration system on it ro something because I have seen some wonky **** this last month. ive seen a team mate shoot a SHUT DOWN spider in the leg with 2large lasers and 5 smalls at 30m, get a component destruction notice, and then when the spider started up, it ran off missing only ONE ARM. lights need work. lets not muddle the water with more broken mechs.

No. Bugs need to be fixed, that's a given. But we need more lights, not less.

Since you seem unaware, there's currently only four light chassis in-game, compared to six mediums, six heavies, and five assaults.

For those of us as crazy as me (read: light pilots), that's an imbalance that can't be allowed to stand.

Edit: After Project Phoenix there will be five light chassis, seven nine medium, seven heavy, and six assaults. We're still short at least one light, possibly two.

Edit 2: Forgot the Saber pack. Nine mediums it is.

Edited by stjobe, 24 September 2013 - 01:20 PM.

[DEMAX51]

Personally, I don't think they want to release any Light 'Mechs until they've resolved issues with HSR, so until that happens I think the Locust is pretty much all we're going to get.

PropagandaWar, on 24 September 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Once they fix the spider issue they can come out with lights galore. I don't care. I still don't understand why the Jenner, Raven, and Commando seem to get hit more often then not but the spider... well it just needs to be fixed. If I see 2 jenners rush my hunchback I say bring it. I have a good chance of being stomped but still I know they "tend" to take damage. If I see a single spider half the time its like why bother (This after you see two shots not register).

One thing I wish they would fis and this is in regards to all mechs they shouldnt be able to turn on a dime going at high speeds. Turning a street corner at 100kph is not even close to realistic 136kph even more so.

The reason you hit Jenners, Commandos and Ravens so easily is because they made their hitboxes much larger than the actual 'Mech models to compensate for shoddy hit detection. Once HSR gets worked out, I would not be surprised if they revisited those 'Mechs to reduce the size of their hitboxes. I'm assuming that they have intentionally left the Spider's hitboxes the way they are to see what sort of effect their HSR fixes have had.

Realism aside, nerfing Light 'Mechs maneuverability is no bueno (and they've actually said they plan on BUFFING Light's maneuverability along the same lines as they did with Mediums).

Here's a few things I'd like to see to make Lights better, by the way:

- Faster acceleration/deceleration

- *Less* of a hit to speed when landing after jump jetting (at least, if the pilot manages a "soft" landing using the JJs to slow the descent of the 'Mech prior to impact)

I think slight buffs in those two areas would make Lights a lot better.

[Deathlike]

DocBach, on 24 September 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

If its anything like PGI has done in the past they'll probably double the missile HP's for each torso, so instead of 2 for the 10N it'd get 2 per side torso, maybe 5 or 6 for the 10P. You know, just enough hardpoints for them to be crippled by ghost heat.

The point is, though, that Peef wants more variety in lights. The Javelin is the only light in the timeline left that would have any sort of utility that would provide a unique role. The Firestarter is a flamer boat that would just have its weapons pulled for lasers, the Urbanmech runs 32kph, the Panther doesn't go much faster, and the Wolfhound does nothing the JR7-F doesn't do much better with the ability to jump.

I admittedly haven't done the research, but it does seem depressing when you are laying it out like that. Maybe they should just release the Urbie if only to find out how 32kph will crush your soul.

stjobe, on 24 September 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

No. Bugs need to be fixed, that's a given. But we need more lights, not less.

Since you seem unaware, there's currently only four light chassis in-game, compared to six mediums, six heavies, and five assaults.

For those of us as crazy as me (read: light pilots), that's an imbalance that can't be allowed to stand.

Edit: After Project Phoenix there will be five light chassis, seven medium, seven heavy, and six assaults. We're still short at least one light, possibly two.

You are forgetting the Saber reinforcement pack... increasing that medium # by 2 to 9.

Edited by Deathlike, 24 September 2013 - 01:01 PM.

[Mystere]

I can't wait for the Clans to arrive with their Piranhas.

[Vodrin Thales]

PEEFsmash, on 24 September 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

This is not a reason that another 150kph light couldn't be released.

I think the primary reason we haven't seen one is that PGI is very aware of the current hit detection issues and is afraid to introduce another mech that would cause people to rage over more over it. They get enough flak for the spider and jenners right now.

[Blaze32]

DocBach, on 24 September 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

MWO's own Sommer Strauss did a nice rendition of the Javelin. This 'Mech would be an awesome addition to the light 'mechs stable, and as a Streak boat would be an awesome solution to whatever bug problem -- be it Locust, Spider or Cicada -- your team might be having.

I use my commando with 2 srm6s it is ALOT of fun and i wreck those assaults up!