32 replies to this topic

[SmurfOff]

daemur, on 24 September 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Dear Chronojam:

I'm glad to see you too. You wouldn't have noticed, but this thread has degraded a bit since I made it. Some people have been trolling, (See link here for definition), and have unfortunately made it too difficult to explain the AC2 math and mechanics to people who would like to talk more about them. Maybe we'll get together again in another thread some time and talk more about the game.

Always yours,
daemur

In the AtD#47,:

miSs, on 23 September 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Hello MechWarriors! Here are the answers from the dev team, they answered 9 questions this time:

...

Question form van Uber: Could you please stop spreading detailed information about the game across the internet without posting the relevant information on mwomercs.com?

...

Answer from Bryan: Different messages require different forms of communication. A podcast is a great way to communicate emotion, or complex ideas that require the intonation of verbal speech. Often written words lack this context and can be misconstrued, and the messaging around those recent podcasts was far too delicate and tricky to be expressed in a written form.

We do continue to post regular, detailed information via these ATDs, and Command Chair posts, more than could be conveyed in a podcast for example. And we plan to release all of the glorious details touched on in the podcasts via posts here on the forums when we are done writing them up. I like to use our UI 2.0 threads as a great example of how forums should be used to communicate information.

This is a disturbing trend of publicly declaring that the only voice you give the community is relatively ignored, or considered the wrong method of communication. I understand that the level of trolling is pretty high, but that is part of being an architect / product manager. The technology is the easy part, it is the "evangelism" part of the job that will drive you to an early grave.

The reality is that this game does have core fundamental issues, and some of us are trying to figure out how to best communicate these back. Some of us tried with the recent AC/2 + ghost heat situation.

As you see in Daemur's post, there is no point in continuing the discussion. So now, the only thing the community can rely on is rampant speculation, and tonal analysis of a podcast to determine where this game is heading. This basically is setting up a troll feedback loop / echo chamber to fill the vacuum that should be filled with PGI information.

I'm not posting because I hate PGI. I am posting because I have 25+ years invested in the BT universe, and still cling to the hope of a MMO style MW:O. Unfortunately, I have no evidence that the company feels the same way I do. And if your model is truly F2P, having your "base" confused and emotional will not garner the longevity of previous titles.

[Threat Doc]

Thank you, SmurfOff. You have managed to put into properly written words what I have not been able to; I have an attitude problem brought on by PTSD, so it's difficult for me to communicate properly, anymore. You, on the other hand, have managed to state eloquently what many others shout and hammer their fists on the table about.

Thank you.

[AlexEss]

The people who know how to get the info does not need to have it served on a platter. It is the people who do not know how to find the info that need help.

Simply we who hang here find the info one way or the oyher, the people who do not come here have no use what so ever of info posted here. It might sound cruel and hurt some egos but that is the truth of it. In fact on a grander scale a subject specific forum like this is one of the least effective ways of spreading info (oh it is good for brownie points with the vocal minority but ***** as a mass communications tool)

Social media and podcasts are actually a lot more effective.

[FactorlanP]

AlexEss, on 25 September 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Social media and podcasts are actually a lot more effective.

BS... A podcast with an audience in the low hundreds is not more effective than Command Chair posts (if they ever make any) that are seen by thousands... And if PGI was smart, would be linked to in the game UI for even broader exposure.

PGI's reliance on a third party podcast and twitter is nothing short of lazy.

[Ghogiel]

SmurfOff, on 25 September 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

So now, the only thing the community can rely on is rampant speculation, and tonal analysis of a podcast to determine where this game is heading. This basically is setting up a troll feedback loop / echo chamber to fill the vacuum that should be filled with PGI information.

So no change since closed beta then.

[Threat Doc]

AlexEss, on 25 September 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

The people who know how to get the info does not need to have it served on a platter. It is the people who do not know how to find the info that need help. <SNIP>

Social media and podcasts are actually a lot more effective.

Yeah, you're wrong here, AlexEss. Besides, it's not so much about what sources are used as much as, if other sources are being used, whatever information is put out there MUST be echo'd, here, because this is the HOME for this game. Anything less is a travesty.

That being said, it doesn't hurt to look around a bit.

[Tezcatli]

I don't know why the community feels that every little thing needs to be justified and communicated. It's going in the game either way. Largely the way they want it.

Though I like Homelessbill's idea. Where they have like a bi-weekly showcase of stuff they're working on. It'd be especially cool if they did it via video.

[SmurfOff]

daemur, on 25 September 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

If that's what you took from that thread Smurfoff, you have missed the boat. You were in the thread and chose to quote my response to a user who was trolling me directly and having some fun.

That said I am not trying to challenge your post just adding a little context as I think its odd you chose to quote me.

Sorry, you were in collateral damage area. But your point is that there is the opinion that the forum is a waste of PGI time, which is disenfranchising the player base. The problem is that the forums are perceived as "not an appropriate" location, but there is no alternative offered.

Some of us have been here a LONG time, through LRM/SRM/knockdown/etc... and yet the consensus is we feel completely disconnected, and in some instance completely ignored. So when the "non-trolls" want to discuss game mechanics, what is the outlet?

The AC/2 Issue is still not resolved. There is still quite a significant amount of work that you could use your founders to work out. Give us the tools, and we will do our best.

Edited by SmurfOff, 25 September 2013 - 03:57 PM.

[Anastasius]

1st world problems man they are tough.

[Sandpit]

Anastasius, on 25 September 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

1st world problems man they are tough.

Yawn, feel bad because we have it better than some? I work hard for what I have. With that said, grateful that I do have a spot in a good life that I can have time and tools to watch tools argue and tooling a little myself. Life is good. It is quite apparent that the dev team, for whatever reason, wrote off the forums quite a while back. They have little care for the posters, readers, ideas, thoughts about the game development, or anything else that gets posted here. Unfortunately I think that's leading to some very poor decisions being made about the direction of the game

[Plonky]

daemur, on 25 September 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

If that's what you took from that thread Smurfoff, you have missed the boat. You were in the thread and chose to quote my response to a user who was trolling me directly and having some fun.

That said I am not trying to challenge your post just adding a little context as I think its odd you chose to quote me.

See this is the type of thing that just ****** people off. It sucks if you feel you've been misrepresented, but there's an overwhelmingly negative vibe coming from almost every PGI post. We don't get enough information - everyone on our side of the discussion seems to agree on that. Then we get condescending posts like this. How about you'd written something like this instead:

I'm sorry that it came across that I didn't value discussing issues with you guys. I was just a bit frustrated at the time that while I was trying to communicate what I believed to be important information, there were members of the thread who were trolling and generally attempting to derail the discussion. I realize that trolling is part and parcel of online communication, and that I probably should have just ignored it, but in that instance I instead decided to simply cease communication.

I do realize however, that just as there are members of any community who just want to cause trouble, there are also a large majority of people who want to discuss things constructively, and it is for the sake of these people that I need to be patient and understanding. Obviously we're making MWO for you, and as such I would love to not only give you information about what I'm working on, but receive your feedback. Your feedback is invaluable to the production process, because you are the ones playing the game every day, and will undoubtedly see things that we don't.

In future I will do my best to ignore the trolls and I hope that I will be able to fix any perceived flaws in my communication as time goes on, and I look forward to interacting with you all in the future.

[Sandpit]

Except our feedback isn't important. We aren't a target demographic anymore. We go from the vocal minority to single-handedly destroying the game and are also going to be the single reason it dies. It has become more than apparent that they are either completely writing off the forums and just don't care or they're going to release some awesome features at the launch party and we will all be eating crow.

[Plonky]

Sandpit, on 25 September 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

Except our feedback isn't important. We aren't a target demographic anymore. We go from the vocal minority to single-handedly destroying the game and are also going to be the single reason it dies. It has become more than apparent that they are either completely writing off the forums and just don't care or they're going to release some awesome features at the launch party and we will all be eating crow.

This may or may not be true, but it's not a constructive position to take. I mean while we expect more from the developers, we must also do the right thing ourselves. I mean, we choose to be a part of this community or not. If you do, then you should try to make it better, or at least try not to make it worse.

But I understand the sentiment. It certainly feels like our feedback isn't important, which is ridiculous because it is VERY IMPORTANT. There will come a time, if things don't change, when people just stop caring and stop playing.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Hey I would kill for a built in podcast radio in MWO, especially if I could tune the damn thing to NGNGtv, listen to relevant news while tweaking mechs in the mechbay at the push of a button? Oh yeah.

(Sure I can do this thing with twitch , sorta, but thats not the point.)

[Sandpit]

All it would take are a few pixels representing the inner sphere and letting is team up and drop inside that glorious sphere and do some stompy shooty pew pew pew for imaginary acreage and I guarantee you that a good majority of the ill-will would dissipate almost immediately. I'm also tired of {Noble MechWarrior} getting censored into something cool while the opponents of the game in it's current state get nothing. I think we should be the black knights and get a cool censor too, like ip ninja!

[OmniJackal]

I just want to point out that I don't even know wtf a podcast or command chair general thing is. If they don't release news on the website and nobody talks about it on reddit, I never see it.

[Sandpit]

OmniJackal, on 25 September 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

I just want to point out that I don't even know wtf a podcast or command chair general thing is. If they don't release news on the website and nobody talks about it on reddit, I never see it.

You and I'm sure a lot more if you factor in old school type players and the casual gamer who doesn't even bother to come to the forums. Forums are usually the central place for info and player congregation especially when said game has no lobbies in game

[OmniJackal]

The lack of an ingame lobby is indeed the only reason I come around here to keep up to date with news. That an apparently they are now releasing news on escape pods? I don't use the facebook or ******* (the word t w u n t e r is censored...it's not even a word....) and I'm tired of everyone using pound signs. Just give me my news in one accessible place.

Edited by OmniJackal, 25 September 2013 - 08:19 PM.

[Plonky]

OmniJackal, on 25 September 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

The lack of an ingame lobby is indeed the only reason I come around here to keep up to date with news. That an apparently they are now releasing news on escape pods? I don't use the facebook or ******* (the word t w u n t e r is censored...it's not even a word....) and I'm tired of everyone using pound signs. Just give me my news in one accessible place.

You silly *******

[Rushin Roulette]

AlexEss, on 25 September 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

The people who know how to get the info does not need to have it served on a platter. It is the people who do not know how to find the info that need help.

Simply we who hang here find the info one way or the oyher, the people who do not come here have no use what so ever of info posted here. It might sound cruel and hurt some egos but that is the truth of it. In fact on a grander scale a subject specific forum like this is one of the least effective ways of spreading info (oh it is good for brownie points with the vocal minority but ***** as a mass communications tool)

Social media and podcasts are actually a lot more effective.

What is so difficult in making the podcast, social media blog/post and just pressing CTRL+C... going to their own official site and making a new commandchair post and pressing CTRL+V?

People are not complaining that PGI are releasing information elsewhere... they are compaining that this information is not being publicised on their own official site.

Its always fun to see users linking to something someone in PGI posted or spoke about elsewhere with the background idea of look what PGI have said this time... SURPRIZE!!!! That is when the mini-stoolstorms usually start up.

If PGI would just make a new forum "Developer tracker" or similar and just themselves link to any publications or messages to random media or approved news articles no one would be complaining (well... some people would complain no matter what just because they are able to complain, but there is no helping them).