41 replies to this topic

[Olrikus]

Since ELO system works like a broken toilet, I suggest to make ELO visible for everyone and make leagues like in Starcraft. Bronze playing with Bronze and so on. It will provide smooth progress experience for newbies and free experienced players from low level games.

[PEEFsmash]

Although I agree that Elo should be made public, and I agree that leagues would be nice perhaps as a replacement to having Elo # itself public, AND I agree that players would have a real motivation to progress in an otherwise "endless arena of repetitive matches", I don't think that good players are being stuck in low-level games. Since the new matchmaker came out, my matches have had quite good players in them overall, and only the rare total bad player (who might have been playing in a group of very good players).

Edited by PEEFsmash, 25 September 2013 - 10:28 AM.

[Olrikus]

PEEFsmash, on 25 September 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Since the new matchmaker came out, my matches have had quite good players in them overall, and only the rare total bad player (who might have been playing in a group of very good players).

Unfortunately, it doesn't always work this way. But, the idea in general offers more benefits as you mention.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

I agree on a general "league" placement system.


Just please, PLEASE give new guys with under 50 games their own league until the game can figure out if they know how to pilot out of a wet paper bag, first.

[PEEFsmash]

mwhighlander, on 25 September 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Just please, PLEASE give new guys with under 50 games their own league until the game can figure out if they know how to pilot out of a wet paper bag, first.

Honestly I have no idea how to pilot a wet paper bag.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Put in a "tutorial" with a course that needs to be run while shooting at targets. If you can't reach a certain score then you have to stay in the "learners" class until you graduate.
To keep it fair and simple everyone should have to run it.

[Almond Brown]

Easier to take the 48 "LEETS" and separate them from the Newbs who are trying to have fun playing a game. Then those 4 12 man teams could wail on each other over and over and nary have a complaint about a lose being the fault of others.

Imagine it! A "LEET" League that has no newbs whatsoever. Imagine having to be "accountable" for your own loses and not having anyone else to actually blame them on but your own "LEET" teammates. Priceless!

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Almond Brown, on 25 September 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Easier to take the 48 "LEETS" and separate them from the Newbs who are trying to have fun playing a game. Then those 4 12 man teams could wail on each other over and over and nary have a complaint about a lose being the fault of others.

Imagine it! A "LEET" League that has no newbs whatsoever. Imagine having to be "accountable" for your own loses and not having anyone else to actually blame them on but your own "LEET" teammates. Priceless!

[Wispsy]

It would give people a reason to play more

[Homeless Bill]

Some dude on reddit had an idea of competing for Bloodnames. That's something I feel like the competitive people could get behind. I still don't see any real benefit of making Elo public, though.

[Khobai]

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Although I agree that Elo should be made public

Why? What would that accomplish? All it would result in is bad players being tormented. Which is exactly why it should remain hidden.

[PEEFsmash]

Khobai, on 25 September 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Why? What would that accomplish? All it would result in is bad players being tormented. Which is exactly why it should remain hidden.

Search "Public Elo Grow Community" and click on my thread. It got like 50,000 views and 30 pages of comments AFTER 15 pages of insults were removed. Check it out.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 25 September 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[Olrikus]

Khobai, on 25 September 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

All it would result in is bad players being tormented.

They are tormented already. League system will ease their suffering by matching them with the players of the same level.

[Khobai]

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They are tormented already. League system will ease their suffering by matching them with the players of the same level.

Im not disagreeing with a league system. But even other games with league systems hide ELO values, like starcraft 2 for example. Its done for a reason.

Quote

Search "Public Elo Grow Community" and click on my thread. It got like 50,000 views and 30 pages of comments AFTER 15 pages of insults were removed. Check it out.

Yeah I disagreed with you in that topic too. Public ELO is in no way beneficial at this time.

[Olrikus]

Khobai, on 25 September 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

But even other games with league systems hide ELO values, like starcraft 2 for example.

It's not a big point anyway, but just to be accurate, Starcraft 2 ladders allow you to see your score and score of the others in your ladder.

[Khobai]

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It's not a big point anyway, but just to be accurate, Starcraft 2 ladders allow you to see your score and score of the others in your ladder.

You can see your current ranking but you cant actually see your ELO score. The genius of blizzards ladder system is that it completely hides the numbers that actually matter, like ELO, while giving players less meaningful stats to look at to cushion their egos and give them a sense of progression. It even divides everyone up into different leagues so nobody ever sees that theyre like 2,000,000th place or whatever... instead youre always in the top 100 of whatever league/ladder youre in. Its misinformation at its finest, lol.

But seeing as how SC2 is one of the biggest competitive games going at the moment (I think its second to DOTA2), we have to assume blizzard has done something right, and that keeping ranking information private and keeping ELO hidden results in a game being more successful than displaying that information publically. And honestly I see no benefit to displaying it publically.

Edited by Khobai, 25 September 2013 - 02:56 PM.

[Roland]

In many ways, knowing what your actual standing is compared to the overall community is beneficial, if perhaps not pleasant.

Knowing that someone who is objectively better than you, but who has differing opinions regarding things like weapon utility, can be useful in knowing when to re-evaluate your ideas.

For instance, if some guy is extremely high ranked in chess, and criticizes my strategy, I'll be much less likely to discard his criticism if I know that he's better than I am.

One thing about Elo, when it works, is that you (ideally) wouldn't play with people who are much better than you.. so you may not even know who they are.

Ultimately, this will all become moot if they ever actually make community warfare, because then you'll be able to actually see some sort of stats... minimally, you can see who owns the colored dots on the starmap to see who knows what they're doing.

[Olrikus]

Khobai, on 25 September 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

You can see your current ranking but you cant actually see your ELO score.

There is no such thing as ELO in SC2, only points.

[Khobai]

Quote

There is no such thing as ELO in SC2, only points.

That is completely false. SC2 uses MMR which is essentially an ELO system. And that information is kept hidden from players.

http://wiki.teamliqu...tle.net_Leagues

[Olrikus]

Khobai, on 25 September 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

SC2 uses MMR which is essentially an ELO system.

MMR is a system built on top of points system to save some information after season reset. It was built to use in league system and can't be compared with ELO.

Edited by Olrikus, 25 September 2013 - 01:10 PM.