129 replies to this topic

[RiotHero]

I think one problem is some people seem to think that they need and or deserve every single mech the game has to offer. I only have 2 mechs right now but, I also have around 40million cbills (haven't even checked lately) because I haven't yet found a mech that I think would be as fun. I just keep playing different load-outs with my two mechs that I have and working on filling the module slots of the one I have mastered.

I'm willing to buy in game items now and then but, it has to be reasonable. I used to play a game all the time and every now and then I'd spend 5 or 10 bucks to get a big enough boost of in game euros to buy a new gun. Well, they went and raised prices. I stopped buying and just used old stuff that worked fine. Then they went and made all the new strong guns 30 day issue only and each cost like 13 dollars. I basically stopped playing, on top of buying. They now have a very small player base that buys a ton of stuff each month. Instead of a ton of players that all buy a few things.

TL:DR

I will buy in game items but, I will never spend more than the value of the game itself. Most new games are $40-$60 and that is all I would ever spend. At that price point it must be good also. That said, I just got 10 complete PC games and two soundtracks from humble bundle for 7 bucks.

[CypherHalo]

Couldn't agree more. I've already ranted myself about this issue on other forum topics, so I'll just leave it at that. Prices are insane and need to take a massive drop.

[Sandpit]

CypherHalo, on 16 October 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Couldn't agree more. I've already ranted myself about this issue on other forum topics, so I'll just leave it at that. Prices are insane and need to take a massive drop.

this

[War Council]

I agree. This game has gotten way out of hand with cost. I'm going to exercise my capitalistic vote by NOT buying anything until prices come down to something much more reasonable. I believe programmers should be paid for their work but PGI has gotten very greedy as of late and are trying to exploit players. I can purchase entire other games for the price of one mech in this one.

[Sandpit]

War Council, on 16 October 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

I agree. This game has gotten way out of hand with cost. I'm going to exercise my capitalistic vote by NOT buying anything until prices come down to something much more reasonable. I believe programmers should be paid for their work but PGI has gotten very greedy as of late and are trying to exploit players. I can purchase entire other games for the price of one mech in this one.

to be honest I think the PP package is going to hurt them in the long run. The breakdown of prices you paid for what you got were great. Plus the number of mechs you get, it's going to be a while before many feel the need to buy anything at all because the pricing model is so high

[Koniving]

LauLiao, on 25 September 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

ALL "Free to Play" games are really just a gimmick to get you to spend money. Do you think that these game companies are just some kind of charity providing entertainment out of the goodness of their hearts? They have overhead to cover and profits to make. Every single F2P game out there is ultimately trying to get you to spend money. The free part is just to lure you in and get you hooked. It sounds more like you're more upset with the Model rather than the game. To be fair, the monetization in this game is a little on the heavy side compared to some other games, but the bottom line is still that you don't HAVE to spend ANY money in this game to be competitive. You complain about the grind, but that's the very thing they use to drive players to spend. The other option is to make the top tier equipment pay only which would make this game P2W.

Sandpit, on 25 September 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

I don't think anyone is complaining that there is a money system in the game. They have to have a way to make income. Nobody stated (that I saw) they should do away with ways to make money. That's not even what this thread is about. It's about how much they charge for how little you get and how they're idea of a micro-transaction isn't very micro.

I agree with both of these points. We are getting more 'game' eventually...

But many of the things we were promised aren't really heading our way. Mediums as the work horse? Not with the way the heat system works, you need to have maximum size to have maximum heat threshold to have maximum alpha strike. Hardset, it wouldn't matter what you ran. Non-alpha strike meta? Back to the heat system combined with the aiming system. Once armlock got kicked in and repair and rearm lost, the alpha meta became rampant.

With the mention of weapon variants, I thought we'd be getting a lot more DPS style weapons like multi-shot ACs (example 1) and different types of medium lasers such as charge-up-but-instant-damage-after and classic star trek style constant-never-ending beams.

(Example 1) A Crusher Super Heavy Autocannon 20 is an AC/20 that fires 10 shots at 2 damage each in either an MG style [0.4 second cooldown time between each shot but basically a glorified 14 ton AC/2 with limited range due mainly to high recoil and 70 shots per ton) or a burst style [all 10 shots fired in no more than a second and a half]. Note, I said recoil, a skill based mechanic where you resist the recoil by pulling back onto target rather than a cone of accuracy. Of course...this means all weapons would need recoil or the multi-shot ACs would simply need some other way to explain why what's essentially AC/2 rounds can't reach AC/2 range. Either way the DPS is 5. Identical to MWO's AC/20.

Another example. The Chemjet Gun in a book is a 4 shot AC/20 that deals 5 damage per shot and is specifically described as a rapid burst weapon. Again the DPS is identical.

The Whirldwind AC/5 deals 3 shots that at the conclusion of which results in 5 damage. The DPS would be identical to a normal AC/5.

The advantages would be more ability to correct a miss, as well as slower heat build up. (An AC/20 generates 6 heat. Doesn't matter if it's a single shot or fires 100 shots to do that 20 damage, it still generates 6 heat. It could be instant or it could be gradually built up until the weapon reaches its potential. MG types are preferable for this as it'd take a whole 4 seconds for an MG style Crusher to completely generate 6 heat. Offsetting its terrible burst damage potential. The disadvantages of course means horrific damage spread.)

For the lasers mentioned earlier..

The charge up laser would give a warning. Smoke, loud noise, etc. But once charged (similar but shorter than the Gauss charge up mechanic), it'd fire an instant burst of damage. A medium laser with this mechanic would still fire at most once per 4 seconds just like a regular laser (regular ML, 1 second beam time, 3 second charge up = one trigger pull per 4 seconds. Charge up, 0.5 second charge up time, instant spartan laser style beam, 3.5 second wait time). DPS would be identical.

A constant beam (classic star trek phaser) laser variant would never stop firing unless released. In the case of an ML, it'd deal the 1.25 dps of a ML, at exactly 1.25 damage per second. Means lots more holding. But it'd generate the 4 heat per "ML shot slice" as 1 heat per second. Since there's an ability to abuse over time heat generation in MWO, a time delay is absolutely required otherwise chain firing 2 means 1 eternally cold laser.

But.. "It ain't gonna happen." Instead, we'll get purple large lasers, and yellow medium lasers. Likely with no real difference than beam times or range.

....Gee, thanks. I miss genuine content.

[Koniving]

Just a random note: In lore, there are over 44 different types of medium lasers. Every single one of them that has a description, works very differently from another one. And that's just regular medium lasers.

In lore, there's over 15 different "Mgs" for mechs, with various calibers, spread patterns, etc. Some are actually described as "pivoting left and right as part of its firing cycle" to better spray infantry and lightly armored vehicles. Others are specifically described as "highly concentrated to penetrate light mech armor."

Also in lore, there's 15 unique innersphere AC/20s, and 3 more variants of variants. Only one of them fires a single shot. And it "Can't be mounted on a mech." It is exclusively mounted on a 100 ton tank designed to "go toe to toe with an Atlas and have a real chance of winning."

There is exactly 1 single shot UAC/20 with a double tap function. It is exclusively mounted on the Ebon Jaguar (Cauldron Born), which can only support it due to the WIDE, LONG profile of the mech and its SHORT to the ground height. (Much more stable).

Hunchback II-C has twin 6 shot UAC/20s in an MG style, with the option to double the firing speed.

Edit: Just to be clear, a 6 shot weapon is the total damage per cycle divided by 6. 20 damage / 6 = 3.33 damage per shot. Once 6 is fired it's exactly 20 damage. At the double firing rate it'll do 40 damage in the same time period, but at the cost of a 20% jam risk (divided among the entire 6 shots, [3.33% chance per shot] though the risk escalates per cycle, so it'd be 30% /6, 40%/6, etc until it jams or it is stopped for a while, with a chance to jam on ANY shot produced while in "ultra firing mode") plus the significant damage spread of an MG-style weapon that takes 4 seconds to produce either slices of 6 shots or 12 shots.

That clan tech sounds like awesome fun, but in this form it isn't really that dangerous now is it? Terrifying, yes. Dangerous? Hardly compared to MWO's current weapons. That UAC/20 on the Hunchback II-C would be an AC/3.33 firing one shot every 0.67 seconds in single mode, and 1 shot every 0.33 seconds for ultra mode all at a range limited to 270 meters for full damage.

Just some lore-based comparisons.

I confess, these are extrapolations of books and fluff and artwork converted into MWO with a strong basis on certain lore facts from TT rules. Example, all AC/20 variants have a 270 range limitation due to "recoil, optimum stopping power, time to destination, accuracy and other reasons." Examples, the 100 shot AC/20 has 270 as its optimum range because the shots get too weak at a distance, due to being so small and underpowered. The 10 shot one has an issue with strong recoil. The Chemjet Gun is a slow burst AC/20, but even so it has a nasty "mech jerking kick" that makes it "unmountable on anything lighter than 65 tons" without risks of falling over while firing.

Do I expect them to be implemented as said? Definitely not. But I do expect to see them, recoil-less, with silly things like 270 being the optimum range despite the Crusher's rounds essentially being AC/2 rounds. Here's to wishful thinking.

For comparison here... We have another MW game that tried what I mentioned above to a limited degree. Despite pinpoint issues, notice the huge difference in mech survival times?

Spoiler

The fast AC/5 you hear in this video is doing 1 damage per shot, one shot every 0.4 seconds, for a total of 5 damage every 2 seconds. So it shoots faster, but deals damage slower than MWO's AC/5. The insanely fast small lasers? 3 damage per 3 seconds despite the firing rate, so identical to MWO's small lasers. Yet these mechs are surviving incredible lengths of time? And what's this, 6 seconds between Gauss Rifle shots? 7 seconds between PPCs?

Edited by Koniving, 16 October 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[Syllogy]

Mech Stamps! The Comstar-sponsored MC Assistance Program... but since you can also buy Paint and Camo with them, I guess you could also call them "Paint Chips."

[WarWrecker]

Koniving, on 16 October 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

Just a random note: In lore, there are over 44 different types of medium lasers. Every single one of them that has a description, works very differently from another one. And that's just regular medium lasers.

In lore, there's over 15 different "Mgs" for mechs, with various calibers, spread patterns, etc. Some are actually described as "pivoting left and right as part of its firing cycle" to better spray infantry and lightly armored vehicles. Others are specifically described as "highly concentrated to penetrate light mech armor."

Also in lore, there's 15 unique innersphere AC/20s, and 3 more variants of variants. Only one of them fires a single shot. And it "Can't be mounted on a mech." It is exclusively mounted on a 100 ton tank designed to "go toe to toe with an Atlas and have a real chance of winning."

There is exactly 1 single shot UAC/20 with a double tap function. It is exclusively mounted on the Ebon Jaguar (Cauldron Born), which can only support it due to the WIDE, LONG profile of the mech and its SHORT to the ground height. (Much more stable).

Hunchback II-C has twin 6 shot UAC/20s in an MG style, with the option to double the firing speed.

Edit: Just to be clear, a 6 shot weapon is the total damage per cycle divided by 6. 20 damage / 6 = 3.33 damage per shot. Once 6 is fired it's exactly 20 damage. At the double firing rate it'll do 40 damage in the same time period, but at the cost of a 20% jam risk (divided among the entire 6 shots, [3.33% chance per shot] though the risk escalates per cycle, so it'd be 30% /6, 40%/6, etc until it jams or it is stopped for a while, with a chance to jam on ANY shot produced while in "ultra firing mode") plus the significant damage spread of an MG-style weapon that takes 4 seconds to produce either slices of 6 shots or 12 shots.

That clan tech sounds like awesome fun, but in this form it isn't really that dangerous now is it? Terrifying, yes. Dangerous? Hardly compared to MWO's current weapons. That UAC/20 on the Hunchback II-C would be an AC/3.33 firing one shot every 0.67 seconds in single mode, and 1 shot every 0.33 seconds for ultra mode all at a range limited to 270 meters for full damage.

Just some lore-based comparisons.

I confess, these are extrapolations of books and fluff and artwork converted into MWO with a strong basis on certain lore facts from TT rules. Example, all AC/20 variants have a 270 range limitation due to "recoil, optimum stopping power, time to destination, accuracy and other reasons." Examples, the 100 shot AC/20 has 270 as its optimum range because the shots get too weak at a distance, due to being so small and underpowered. The 10 shot one has an issue with strong recoil. The Chemjet Gun is a slow burst AC/20, but even so it has a nasty "mech jerking kick" that makes it "unmountable on anything lighter than 65 tons" without risks of falling over while firing.

Do I expect them to be implemented as said? Definitely not. But I do expect to see them, recoil-less, with silly things like 270 being the optimum range despite the Crusher's rounds essentially being AC/2 rounds. Here's to wishful thinking.

For comparison here... We have another MW game that tried what I mentioned above to a limited degree. Despite pinpoint issues, notice the huge difference in mech survival times?

Spoiler

The fast AC/5 you hear in this video is doing 1 damage per shot, one shot every 0.4 seconds, for a total of 5 damage every 2 seconds. So it shoots faster, but deals damage slower than MWO's AC/5. The insanely fast small lasers? 3 damage per 3 seconds despite the firing rate, so identical to MWO's small lasers. Yet these mechs are surviving incredible lengths of time? And what's this, 6 seconds between Gauss Rifle shots? 7 seconds between PPCs?

just some more great stuff that we will never have in this game... as the whales beach, so to speak, and almost the money dries up a year or from now unless some big changes are made

[Koniving]

WarWrecker, on 20 October 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

just some more great stuff that we will never have in this game... as the whales beach, so to speak, and almost the money dries up a year or from now unless some big changes are made

I hate to throw a like because the very thought is depressing. But I'm glad you liked it.