129 replies to this topic

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Check the prices in a Russian game World of Tanks, they earn ten times as less; but the prices are as high as in this game. The prices in the game client in the country itself are the same as in the USA client.

Edited by lunticasylum, 02 October 2013 - 10:36 PM.

[Skiddywinks]

lunticasylum, on 02 October 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

Check the prices in a Russian game World of Tanks, they earn ten times as less; but the prices are as high as in this game. The prices in the country itself are the same as in the USA.

Yeh but the items in WoT have value. The more pricier tanks almost guarantee much higher income. 30% more CBills is not much, especially when losing a match usually means 40-60K income. WoT has no incredible history to draw from, and yet people still buy the tanks because they see real value in the things they are buying. Same with the more traditional micro transactions in LoL.

In MWO, the items are just not worth the cost. Except mech bays. Hero Mechs are interesting to look at but not all that different, and only offer 30% more CBills. And they want $37 for that? The only reason it is working is the die hard fans, no casual (who they seem to be going for) is going to pay that. Ever. If I told people about this game they would laugh at me.

I fear that when/if the whales dry up (quite possible if UI2.0 and CW take as long as it seems it is going to at this rate), this game will be doomed. No casual will touch it. I read that PGI claimed a 50% founder retention rate a while back? If true that is shockingly bad. This game nails the mech piloting, and yet half of the founders have jumped ship? All that tells you is that the problem is elsewhere, i.e. the terrible grindiness and absurd pricing of things people would normally WANT to buy.

[Team Leader]

lunticasylum, on 02 October 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

Check the prices in a Russian game World of Tanks, they earn ten times as less; but the prices are as high as in this game. The prices in the game client in the country itself are the same as in the USA client.

One insanely overpriced game is not a valid comparison to another. If you pay $50 for an online tank... Well, I don't know. I honestly don't know why someone would ever do that unless they have more money than they know what to do with. Even if I was rich I wouldn't. That's crazy. We don't want crazy here. Paying $20 for a mech that barely even helps you is crazy. Seems like a lot of the Mw playerbase is crazy for MW.

[Spike Spiegal]

Archio, on 25 September 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

<tinfoil hat>

This game feels like a ploy to grab as much money as possible while holding out a carrot on a string (UI 2.0, CW, ClanTech). Then once they have enough money, or feel they cant get any more, they'll walk away.

</tinfoil hat>

hmm most business ventures are a "ploy" to grab as much money as possible....so yea take that tinfoil hat and shove it...just goes to show how ignornant you are that you think business dont follow that model and then use a cliche tinfoil hat attack....typical *****

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Do you wish a forced subscription model then? The prices are low and are optional for payment. You can buy two dinners or one 'Mech: it is your choice.

[meteorol]

I love the term "grinding" used for MWO.
Do you mean "playing the game" by grinding?
So what do you do after you finished the "horrible" grind?
Oh wait you will do just the same thing: Shoot stompy robots.

How is playing 300 matches in my DDC to buy a new atlas a "grind"? I would play those matches no matter what i get for it, because... playing the game is fun?

Is this some card trading game in which i need to get all the mechs?
Seriously, i can't understand this "gotta catch 'em all, but within 1 day and if possible for free" mentality.

MC prices are rather insane, i would personally get 3 or 4 games on sale than buying on mech for like 40$. Or one fresh released AAA titel (If you get them on a preorder sale, you can easily get AAA titles for 40€ in europe). I would never buy a mech if prices stay the same, but everyone has to decide how he wants to spent his money. If you want it, buy it.

Edited by meteorol, 03 October 2013 - 09:38 PM.

[M0rpHeu5]

lunticasylum, on 03 October 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Do you wish a forced subscription model then? The prices are low and are optional for payment. You can buy two dinners or one 'Mech: it is your choice.

(Achievement Unlocked)
Dev alt account confirmed.

[Skiddywinks]

meteorol, on 03 October 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

I love the term "grinding" used for MWO.
Do you mean "playing the game" by grinding?
So what do you do after you finished the "horrible" grind?
Oh wait you will do just the same thing: Shoot stompy robots.

How is playing 300 matches in my DDC to buy a new atlas a "grind"? I would play those matches no matter what i get for it, because... playing the game is fun?

Is this some card trading game in which i need to get all the mechs?
Seriously, i can't understand this "gotta catch 'em all, but within 1 day and if possible for free" mentality.

Of course playing the game boils down to grinding (true of every game that has grind), but it's more about what you get out of it. It feels like grinding because any money spent on anything other than the next mech you want to try/master is a money sink. I have three hunchbacks now, almost all mastered, and they are pretty terrible (loadout-wise that is). Making them any decent would be pointless now, because I have more or less mastered them, so why would I drop several million CBills on a better engine and FF and trying to maximise or even just variate the build? I wouldn't, it would be a waste of CBills when it already takes forever to accrue them.

So, my money is much better spent saving up for a new mech. Now, seeing as mediums are effing useless, I figured I would go for a light for some fun, but they still cost 3mil anyway (same as my HBK), so I figure I will just save for an Atlas or something, get my money's worth. The game is set up in such a way that it feels grindy no matter what. The idea is you earn money and XP and that goes towards making your mech better, gaining proficiencies with it and that way the mech and you as a pilot grow together. Except, just saving up enough money for the DHS, Endo and a half decent loadout is enough time to master the basic proficiencies at least, and then you're left wondering where is the most efficient place to put my CBills, because they are so hard to come by.

I would love to fool around with my HBK, but anything I do is just setting back any progression I want to make towards a different play experience. And this is the mess every new player is going to be in, and is also the reason I barely played yesterday and feel no real urge to play today.

[ColdCutz]

Extra Credits had an excellent episode about Microtransactions.

[Scarlet Tempest]

I am always struggling to understand peoples complaints with the C-bills in this game... Some say too high.. Some say too low.. I feel they are just right O.o I don't seem to have a problem getting a new mech.. But then again I don't think a bout "Man I need this third mech for speed tweak." yes those 2x upgrades help and so does speed tweak.. But Honestly your pilot skill shouldn't be reliant on it. I average with out premium and hero mech boost 100k a match.. and that seems more then fair to me when a bout 100 matches is a mech. 10 matches a day 10 days ... that's not bad at all.. considering most people I know do more then 10 matches a day shouldn't take you that long at all to get a mech. Not to Mention.. It's a MECH... It's not like you go out in real life and buy a 100 ton Car every other day. No you have to save up for a car... And even then I doubt you have 20+ cars just lying around in your garage. I just really thing people need to sit down and enjoy the game and not complain a bout the money. It will come just enjoy the game and play what ya have. If you don't like what you have then sell what you have. simple as that.

[qismo]

yea its hard to say what prize should be good. if you put low price to heroes so then everyone have all the heroes and that hero isint so unique anymore... omg 12vs12 and all heroes. thats not cool. but yes other hand i want too boars head but i dont want to but onegame price for that becouse it isint so game breaking mech.. maybe if heromecs comes with some achivement what you have to do so then that hero is earned and it feels good to own. pgi should make their money with accecories and maybe just ask support? and hey mechbays still cost realmoney so there is good way to earn it. those arent so expensive and i think they make good money with those. and little drop in color prices and there you got again more and more money. it isint always that poor people complains about prices. they just know value of money and nothing ingame stuff should not be over half of the real game price. and yes i enjoy the game and hope thay make it even better.

Edited by qismo, 05 October 2013 - 01:23 AM.

[Skiddywinks]

Zeries, on 05 October 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

I am always struggling to understand peoples complaints with the C-bills in this game... Some say too high.. Some say too low.. I feel they are just right O.o I don't seem to have a problem getting a new mech.. But then again I don't think a bout "Man I need this third mech for speed tweak." yes those 2x upgrades help and so does speed tweak.. But Honestly your pilot skill shouldn't be reliant on it. I average with out premium and hero mech boost 100k a match.. and that seems more then fair to me when a bout 100 matches is a mech. 10 matches a day 10 days ... that's not bad at all.. considering most people I know do more then 10 matches a day shouldn't take you that long at all to get a mech. Not to Mention.. It's a MECH... It's not like you go out in real life and buy a 100 ton Car every other day. No you have to save up for a car... And even then I doubt you have 20+ cars just lying around in your garage. I just really thing people need to sit down and enjoy the game and not complain a bout the money. It will come just enjoy the game and play what ya have. If you don't like what you have then sell what you have. simple as that.

First of all, I ignored everything you said about buying a new car everyday because, well, you're an ***** if you think you can compare something like that to a game. There is no analogous cross over there. So glossing over this...

120K to 100K is my average for a good game (best I have had is 144K), but the problem in this game is that it is very hard to do well without winning, and even winning is not a guarantee that you will make a lot of money. As it stands, I get the majority of my money from assists (because why would I kill someone when I can get component destruction bonuses for wailing on them and then let someone else kill them so I get the more valuable assist?), and damage is a poor crutch to rely on depending on your build and the role you are trying to accomplish/provide. This means that if a team get's wailed on, there is no room whatesoever for you do to do well on your own.

If you are winning every match and hitting 80K-120K each time, sure, that's not terribly unreasonable. Still a little off putting (that's still 15 great wins just to afford a half decent medium or light mech, without the DHS or ES, FF, an almost necessary engine upgrade etc), and probably really killing retention of casuals picking the game up. But they seem set on milking the whales so forget about that. However, Starting a match, having each team cap rush, and getting as little as a couple dozen thousand CBills is seriously disheartening. It's a waste of time. On top of that, we now have the 60 second timer (that i have seen go to negative 12 before) and people either trolling and not hitting ready, or doing the usual and waiting to hear "All systems nominal" before alt tabbing back in. It just feels terribly slow and grindy, and it doesn't even feel worth getting premium time because if you have a bad day, your only earning an extra ~25k per match. And you're paying money for this (one of the few reasons I have no dropped any money on PT yet, despite it being reasonably priced; the value just isn't there).

In my opinion, they should rebalance pay outs so that if you do well in a game that goes badly you get what we currently get now for a good game (i.e. 80k-120k), and if you do really well in a game, you hit 200k (not that much of an increase from 120k-140k really). That way, I would even buy PR, because during the cadet bonus you are typically getting ~350k per match, and at that rate the game is sick fun because you don't feel like you are being punished for experimenting. As it stands, that's wasted money towards something you *NEED*, like mastering mechs or just trying something different, chassis-wise. ~200k payout + 50% now starts looking seriously tasty.

[Elyam]

I believe the present system does make it a bit too long to earn cbills for new mechs, engines, and upgrades.. Perhaps 15%. This could be offset, as others have mentioned, by better cbill rewards for extraordinary success/contribution in a match that can sometimes push your reward closer to 200k, or push a weaker player's booty to 100. I want PGI to be using essentially the same system, and yes that means encouraging players to see the advantage of buying MCs. But it needs a minor balance tweak.

You want players, especially those prone to average play (sometimes poor, sometimes just good but rarely better) but who really love the ideas of experimenting with designs and tactics (sometimes even to their detriment) to not have a painful time trying to get each upgrade, engine, and mech. These are players who aren't glorious at actual play, but who still are enthralled with BT and its systems and universe. They also aren't superb at the economics - they often impatiently sell of what they've earned to get the next thing. If the grind for these players is too rough, they'll back away. And don't underestimate their presence - a significant chunk of the player base.

Edited by Elyam, 05 October 2013 - 07:17 AM.

[SolCrusher]

Well, I have to chime in. I've been playing this game since closed beta. I've been earning CBills just fine. I've only spent my Founders MC on CN9-YLW, CFT-ILY, and mech bays. I have a total of 37 mechs to include the two I listed plus my 4 founders. I also have 71 million CBs and a enough MC to by 7 more mech bays. (MC left from my founders package) Plus I haven't spent any of my Premium time because I wanted to use it once it left Beta. But as we can see we still have the same game as beta so I haven't started my Premium time yet.

Now I spent some more funds on an Overlord package, but after figuring out that I can literally buy all the mechs except the assaults. I've come to the conclusion I have enough CBills to buy whatever I need in game. And really the overlord package isn't gonna do anything for me because CW won't be available for another YEAR!? At the rate they are moving it will be next fall before CW is completed.

I have earned well above 300mil Cbills, I always carry a balance of 50mil. Honestly I would buy more MC mechs if the price was 5-10 dollars but it's not so I just grind Cbills. And besides they haven't released a better hero at making money than the CFT-ILY anyways. Maybe the JM6-FB can compete but I doubt it.

How do you make CBills? Simply put, win. How do you win? Carry your team. How do you carry your team? Pilot an AS7-D-DC and get 3+ kills per match. I typically play mop up in my DDC. Let everyone bang on the opposing assaults and then I run in and kill the opposing guys with LBX10, SRM6s, and Flamers. Oh yeah you think I'm a joke when you see my flamers on my DDC, but the joke is on you!

But anyways I digress. MC should be cheaper, paint should be cheaper, camo should be cheaper, Cockpit Items should be cheaper, and MC Mechs should be cheaper.

Just my opinion, but that would get me to spend some real $$ on MC.

[Randalf Yorgen]

Skiddywinks, on 05 October 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

First of all, I ignored everything you said about buying a new car everyday because, well, you're an ***** if you think you can compare something like that to a game. There is no analogous cross over there. So glossing over this...

120K to 100K is my average for a good game (best I have had is 144K), but the problem in this game is that it is very hard to do well without winning, and even winning is not a guarantee that you will make a lot of money. As it stands, I get the majority of my money from assists (because why would I kill someone when I can get component destruction bonuses for wailing on them and then let someone else kill them so I get the more valuable assist?), and damage is a poor crutch to rely on depending on your build and the role you are trying to accomplish/provide. This means that if a team get's wailed on, there is no room whatesoever for you do to do well on your own.

If you are winning every match and hitting 80K-120K each time, sure, that's not terribly unreasonable. Still a little off putting (that's still 15 great wins just to afford a half decent medium or light mech, without the DHS or ES, FF, an almost necessary engine upgrade etc), and probably really killing retention of casuals picking the game up. But they seem set on milking the whales so forget about that. However, Starting a match, having each team cap rush, and getting as little as a couple dozen thousand CBills is seriously disheartening. It's a waste of time. On top of that, we now have the 60 second timer (that i have seen go to negative 12 before) and people either trolling and not hitting ready, or doing the usual and waiting to hear "All systems nominal" before alt tabbing back in. It just feels terribly slow and grindy, and it doesn't even feel worth getting premium time because if you have a bad day, your only earning an extra ~25k per match. And you're paying money for this (one of the few reasons I have no dropped any money on PT yet, despite it being reasonably priced; the value just isn't there).

In my opinion, they should rebalance pay outs so that if you do well in a game that goes badly you get what we currently get now for a good game (i.e. 80k-120k), and if you do really well in a game, you hit 200k (not that much of an increase from 120k-140k really). That way, I would even buy PR, because during the cadet bonus you are typically getting ~350k per match, and at that rate the game is sick fun because you don't feel like you are being punished for experimenting. As it stands, that's wasted money towards something you *NEED*, like mastering mechs or just trying something different, chassis-wise. ~200k payout + 50% now starts looking seriously tasty.

So the highlighted stuff speaks for itself. Can I ask, do you only play lone wolf? Losing doesn't pay well at all, look at Boxing in the real world.

Blowing the components off reduces the value of the salvage so if you're hurting for cash then you should smarten up. TAG and SPOTTING BONUS is where the money is.

If you stray to far from your base and cannot defend it you deserve to get capped

80-120K is barely ok so you wouldn't get something that would take you to 105-145K..... are you chasing your own tail here because it seems you are spinning yourself into the ground.

hmmmm, So having to do what everyone else does takes away all the "Sick Fun" can I ask do you save your money from Cadet time or do you spend it as fast as you can like it's burning a hole in your pocket? Trial mechs are there to give you a feel for some of the mechs and the weights so you can get a feel for what you might like to pilot when you come out of the Cadet time. I brought a friend into the game and by the end of the Cadet time he had 18 million c-bills but guess what, he found he liked Mediums and bought himself a Centurion-AL and upgraded it how he liked and he still have 4 million left over.

I think the problem lies more with you than it does with the Game, if you aren't having fun then maybe it's time for you to change something that you are doing. If you aren't part of a team then join a faction, If you feel that your mechs is too slow downgrade on weight class and adjust your play style. Whatever, just do something to change your situation and things will be different all around.

As another friend of mine likes to say, "Pro Tip- If you are always stuck on crappy teams, maybe it's not the teams that are Crappy"

Think about that.

[Primez]

Randalf Yorgen, on 07 October 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

So the highlighted stuff speaks for itself. Can I ask, do you only play lone wolf? Losing doesn't pay well at all, look at Boxing in the real world.

This isn't the real world, it's a video game and should be balanced as such.

Randalf Yorgen, on 07 October 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Blowing the components off reduces the value of the salvage so if you're hurting for cash then you should smarten up. TAG and SPOTTING BONUS is where the money is.

If you stray to far from your base and cannot defend it you deserve to get capped

80-120K is barely ok so you wouldn't get something that would take you to 105-145K..... are you chasing your own tail here because it seems you are spinning yourself into the ground.

hmmmm, So having to do what everyone else does takes away all the "Sick Fun" can I ask do you save your money from Cadet time or do you spend it as fast as you can like it's burning a hole in your pocket? Trial mechs are there to give you a feel for some of the mechs and the weights so you can get a feel for what you might like to pilot when you come out of the Cadet time. I brought a friend into the game and by the end of the Cadet time he had 18 million c-bills but guess what, he found he liked Mediums and bought himself a Centurion-AL and upgraded it how he liked and he still have 4 million left over.

I think the problem lies more with you than it does with the Game, if you aren't having fun then maybe it's time for you to change something that you are doing. If you aren't part of a team then join a faction, If you feel that your mechs is too slow downgrade on weight class and adjust your play style. Whatever, just do something to change your situation and things will be different all around.

As another friend of mine likes to say, "Pro Tip- If you are always stuck on crappy teams, maybe it's not the teams that are Crappy"

Think about that.

The problem isn't the player not having fun it's the rewards. He is obviously having fun because he is playing the game and enjoying it. Since the cbill rewards are so low, it takes that fun and turns it into grind. Grinding leads to boredom, many do not enjoy it, and disparage it as a symptom of poor or uninspired game design. If there is no hope in the future of these players being rewarded, they will likely leave the game, causing the population to shrink. Since mechwarrior already has population issues as it is, I think it time we start by increasing cbill rewards again.

[Sandpit]

The problem is neither side is right and neither side is wrong. Some will say pricing is good and others will disagree. PGI will continue with current pricing model until more people shut their wallets or continue along with the people who have more expendable income. If they make money they will keep it as is. If they stop making money they will drop prices.

[Sug]

MWO is a huge, huge grind for new players, and then the grind leads to absolutely nothing because there is no meta game. I'm sitting on all Mastered mechs, 600k gxp, and 90million cbills with nothing further to gain from playing.

I'm down to maybe 5 matches a week of MWO. I've even gone back to WoW and LoL because there's just nothing left for me to do in MWO : /

[mekabuser]

truth be told, everything stated is true.
The thilng that has gotten out of hand is cbills tho.. I play, I play everyday for at least an hour and I cant earn s h i t...
and guess what... ? that is exactly how i feel .. I am a decent player and tbh, the grind is so oppressive I am sure they are turning off significant numbers of players.. \
At least in the past I was able to rack up some cbills, plop down cash for mechbays and proceed, The way this {Scrap} is now idk when the hell Im gonna be able to buy anything.
I certainly wont be making any more mc buys till its adjusted..


But u know what, it doesnt make that much of a difference to me, the thing thats bad is that Im sure there are many people who are just like *** it, screw this game. , and thats not what id like to see.

I dont see where they get the balls to offer such an oppresive grind in conjunction with across the board tepid reviews...

quite scary.

[Nick Makiaveli]

First off, I only read the first two pages but only saw a couple of posts that were positive so presume the rest have about the same ratio.

Apparently I am way off the reservation here, because I feel like PGI is giving us a **** load of stuff for free.

You don't have buy MC if you don't want to. Sure if you never want to sell a variant then you will need mech bays, but they have to make money somehow and $1.50 for a "character slot" isn't really that much.

Are colors/patterns a bit pricy? Seems like it to me, i would think they would make them cheap and then sell a lot more to impulse buyers, but whatever. PC Gamer colors are still free till next year (google is your friend).

Grind? I'm sorry, where is this grind you people keep talking about? I haven't had to kill the same mob 842 times yet. Nor have I had to do some stupid daily. What I have done is run around in a mech blasting other mechs to pieces!! Ok, truth be told I run around in a mech and get my mech blasted to pieces, but it's still fun.

Do I wish the mechs were cheaper? Sure. I bought the Talon Phoenix package since I figured it would be good to have a mech with a loyalty bonus, even if it is a Locust, then upgraded to Storm next payday because I love me some Shadowhawks!! But other than Sarah's Jenner (which I don't count as money spent on the game) I haven't spent a time, and truth be told I've played a lot of F2P games but this is the first time I ever spent cash on one.

Point being, PGI may yet take a big dump all over MWO, but I'm having fun playing. I think CW will be fun. But even if it's still just team deathmatch with frills, we still get to blow up mechs!!!

**edit** Some more thoughts on C-bills. I rarely hit 100K per match. Heck I am usually happy if I can get 50K in a match. More often I think well 30K means two more matchs and I made 100K!! Only 30 more matchs for my next mech!! The trick is if you die, quit the match, jump in another mech and keep playing. Spectating makes you zero cash. Now if I am running pre-mades with DHB, then I spectate both to not keep my peeps waiting, but also since I know they are people worth watching.
I have bought all 3 Ravens, 2 Jenners, and 3 Jagers, all with C-bills. Granted I am sitting on about 65K right now, but it's all good. I think most of you guys bought in the BS that you HAVE to get DHS, Endo, FF etc to be able to get Basic on a mech, or god forbid, Elite one. I only did that with the 3L, and will likely get it on the DD, possibly the JGM-6A (S? The one with missiles). If you are not going to Master the thing and keep it for ever, why upgrade it? If you don't really enjoy playing it, only Elite if you don't already have 3 of that class and then dump it.

Bottom line....if you aren't having fun running around blowing stuff up, you're doing it wrong. Or you just aren't a mechwarrior and maybe you should quit and go back to being an astech.

Edited by Nick Makiaveli, 08 October 2013 - 03:55 PM.