63 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Yes, yes, you have repeated this numerous times. How about you blame FASA for giving it a 150 rated engine and making it a firepower heavy mech?

The difference is that the Commando actually works in tabletop because speed doesnt matter nearly as much in TT as it does in MWO. In MWO, speed is EVERYTHING for a light mech, and being deprived of both tonnage and speed is a death sentence for the Commando.

[WildeKarde]

My feeling is that a % of mechs should be destroyed before a cap is allowed. Say 50% or 75% of a team being dead

[Anastasius]

Mehlan, on 26 September 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Sorry, but I'm to rant a tad here... READ a thread before your going to post in it. The first post

I did read it thanks. My point was without collision and with current problems it is a terrible idea.

You want to remove speed caps. Put collision back in and improve hit detection.

[Shadey99]

Khobai, on 26 September 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

The difference is that the Commando actually works in tabletop because speed doesnt matter nearly as much in TT as it does in MWO. In MWO, speed is EVERYTHING for a light mech, and being deprived of both tonnage and speed is a death sentence for the Commando.

Well the problem is with the base design and it's translation to MWO. It's also with the Commando having one of the highest stock weapon tonnage/total tonnage ratios in the game (32-36%) which among lights is only seen in Ravens (Also slow). This ratio is critically important to lights in TT and drastically underwhelming in MWO... Hence the 'fearsome' medium-like weapons load in a Commando that nothing heavier than a medium would ever worry about in MWO.

Btw Jenners are 11-21%, Spiders 7-10%, Ravens 23-36%, and the Locust is 15%.

[Volthorne]

Shadey99, on 26 September 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Well the problem is with the base design and it's translation to MWO. It's also with the Commando having one of the highest stock weapon tonnage/total tonnage ratios in the game (32-36%) which among lights is only seen in Ravens (Also slow). This ratio is critically important to lights in TT and drastically underwhelming in MWO... Hence the 'fearsome' medium-like weapons load in a Commando that nothing heavier than a medium would ever worry about in MWO.

Btw Jenners are 11-21%, Spiders 7-10%, Ravens 23-36%, and the Locust is 15%.

That's because no one has figured out how to use an Atlas buddy to maximize their commando efficiency. With the current (albiet very VERY unlikely) numbers that Paul gave us for tonnage limits when grouped, I'd rather have an Atlas/Commando pair than almost anything else (A 70t+55t pair also wouldn't be a bad way to go, but those are basically your two best pairings for tonnage/efficiency maximization - also for role coverage when that starts to mean something).

Edited by Volthorne, 26 September 2013 - 05:26 PM.

[Odins Fist]

If you think Hit Reg is broken now, then drop the speed cap and see what happens... LOL

[Mehlan]

Odins Fist, on 26 September 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

If you think Hit Reg is broken now, then drop the speed cap and see what happens... LOL

hence op's comment about presuming they were able to fix the hit reg issue

[Odins Fist]

Mehlan, on 26 September 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

hence op's comment about presuming they were able to fix the hit reg issue

Hence... what I said... Presuming they didn't

Edited by Odins Fist, 26 September 2013 - 06:52 PM.

[Mycrus]

Just goes to show that ther commando is perfect the way it is now

[Orkhepaj]

Khobai, on 25 September 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

Removing speed caps makes it so theres even less of a reason to play Commandos.

Commandos need to go faster than Jenners or theres no point in playing a mech thats 10 tons lighter.

Jenner needs a huge nerf thats all.

[Orkhepaj]

Shadey99, on 26 September 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Well the problem is with the base design and it's translation to MWO. It's also with the Commando having one of the highest stock weapon tonnage/total tonnage ratios in the game (32-36%) which among lights is only seen in Ravens (Also slow). This ratio is critically important to lights in TT and drastically underwhelming in MWO... Hence the 'fearsome' medium-like weapons load in a Commando that nothing heavier than a medium would ever worry about in MWO.

Btw Jenners are 11-21%, Spiders 7-10%, Ravens 23-36%, and the Locust is 15%.

Yeah if only tonnage would have any meaning in mwo , but it has 0 use so --> jenners extra fit limit makes it superior.
The cicada which could be close to it is way larger, and in med mech class for no reason at all it suddenly becomes a crappy mech.

[Shadey99]

Orkhepaj, on 26 September 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

Yeah if only tonnage would have any meaning in mwo , but it has 0 use so --> jenners extra fit limit makes it superior.
The cicada which could be close to it is way larger, and in med mech class for no reason at all it suddenly becomes a crappy mech.

None of those numbers related to the tonnage of the mech except as a ratio of weapon tonnage to mech tonnage. And really you can only calculate that for stock builds as custom builds can vary this rate (usually increasing it). In TT 32-36% of your mech devoted to guns was a big deal for a light. The Hollander is another classic example of large weapon weight to mech weight ratio...

As for the Cicada... It in lore had a reason for being a fast medium. The company making it couldn't sell it as a light, so they added 5 tons, slapped a bigger engine in to make up the difference, and you have the Cicada as we know it. Though in TT the Cicada and Jenner fill a similar role, with the Cicada being the faster mech of the two (at the cost of missiles).

Odins Fist, on 26 September 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

If you think Hit Reg is broken now, then drop the speed cap and see what happens... LOL

As I mentioned their are ways to have consistent state on the back end and eliminate issues from rapid movement while still having HSR. Most likely though PGI doesn't want to invest the resources it would take to do that. Then again I've never been to PGI's datacenter and seen what sort of hardware they run everything on...

[Lil Cthulhu]

Mudhutwarrior, on 25 September 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Well you cant hit them with low fps as it is so lets speed them up more. Just crazy.

Yes, lets set about balancing the game specifically for people who have computers that can't run it at an acceptable frame rate.

STROKE OF MOTHER EFFING GENIUS.

[Kunae]

Orkhepaj, on 26 September 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

Jenner needs a huge nerf thats all.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha... no.

Stop trying to make PGI compensate for your lack of ability to shoot things accurately.

[Khobai]

Quote

With the current (albiet very VERY unlikely) numbers that Paul gave us for tonnage limits when grouped, I'd rather have an Atlas/Commando pair than almost anything else

For 125 tons, id rather have a Jagermech and a Quickdraw. A Jagermech with the right build can easily kill an Atlas by itself.

[Clit Beastwood]

Lil Cthulhu, on 27 September 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

Yes, lets set about balancing the game specifically for people who have computers that can't run it at an acceptable frame rate.

STROKE OF MOTHER EFFING GENIUS.

right? go mow some lawns and buy a better computer.

Khobai, on 27 September 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

For 125 tons, id rather have a Jagermech and a Quickdraw. A Jagermech with the right build can easily kill an Atlas by itself.

for 125 tons I want a swarm of elementals!

[Shadey99]

I'm going to raise this thread from the dead since on twitter we have confirmation that the Locust, at least, will take a 190 rated engine... Implying a new speed cap of 170 kph...

So an updated list based on a cap of 170 kph would make them look like...

• Locust: 190 which would give it a speed of 153.9 kph (169.29 kph)
  
• Spider: 285 which would give it a speed of 153.9 kph (169.29 kph)
  
• Jenner: 330 which would give it a speed of 152.74 kph (168 kph)
  
• Cicada: 380 which would give it a speed of 153.9 kph (169.29 kph)

The Ravens and Commandos would remain the same as they do now as they have reached their engine cap on the 1.4xStock engine rule.

So mild (& almost entirely uniform) increases for these four... Though I cannot imagine someone wanting to put a 27.5 ton 380 XL in a Cicada... You would have 29.5 tons used just adding the engine on an ES frame...

[Captain Stiffy]

aniviron, on 25 September 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

This, so much this. Tired of assault pilots so upset that they can't just set throttle to maximum, bowl over their opponents and ac20 their backs. If you want "realistic" collisions, you can have them when bridges twist and crumble beneath your atlas, when you get stuck and are limited to half speed in muddy terrain, or when having a building or hill near you impedes your torso twisting instead of just letting you clip through it.

The (hilarious) lack of destructible environments from the get-go means that this will never happen, unfortunately.

[Captain Stiffy]

Shadey99, on 10 October 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

So mild (& almost entirely uniform) increases for these four... Though I cannot imagine someone wanting to put a 27.5 ton 380 XL in a Cicada... You would have 29.5 tons used just adding the engine on an ES frame...

400XL, no weapons, cap accelerator, seismic, laugh all the way to the bank er, well not bank, but still.. laughing!

Edited by Captain Stiffy, 10 October 2013 - 05:35 PM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Shadey99, on 10 October 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

I'm going to raise this thread from the dead since on twitter we have confirmation that the Locust, at least, will take a 190 rated engine... Implying a new speed cap of 170 kph...

So an updated list based on a cap of 170 kph would make them look like...

• Locust: 190 which would give it a speed of 153.9 kph (169.29 kph)
  
• Spider: 285 which would give it a speed of 153.9 kph (169.29 kph)
  
• Jenner: 330 which would give it a speed of 152.74 kph (168 kph)
  
• Cicada: 380 which would give it a speed of 153.9 kph (169.29 kph)

The Ravens and Commandos would remain the same as they do now as they have reached their engine cap on the 1.4xStock engine rule.

And the 1.4x rule is a damn stupid one. If you're going to limit engine size based on a range-from-stock then presumably you should be limiting max weapon tonnageand armour the same way? As it stands a RVN-2X or RVN-4X can't 'steal' a Jenner's speed, but the Jenner can 'steal' the Raven's far heavier armour. The worst victim of this is, clearly, the Commando since it affects all variants, but the slow Ravens get the ****** end of the stick as bad, they're just saved by being related to the RVN-3L.

If there's an issue with supa-fast Assaults or Heavies (although I'm unsure why they'd be a problem given how much tonnage they'd need to divert off of payload to get that speed, but the engine limit predates my joining the game) then make limits based on weight-class. Or at least define engine ranges by Chassis, not Variant - that'll leave a few less mechs DoA.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 10 October 2013 - 05:36 PM.