170 replies to this topic

[Kyrie]

Can't argue against money-as-time replacement in an F2P.

[Sandpit]

I think the dynamics are different. In a subscription based game you are going to invest more time in general because you've already paid to play. They have your money so the degradation is no biggy. In a F2P game you have nothing invested but your time (if you so wish) which means PGI has to come up with a reason (other than, you know, gameplay, depth, longevity, etc.) for players to keep coming back so this is just another dynamic that encourages this.

[Antasius]

Rank decay would never, ever 'entice' me to come back to a game. If anything I would quit that game out of sheer principle.

You can't make people play your game out of 'fear', or the 'threat' of taking something away. Most people play games because they are fun, period. Make the game fun and people will throw money at you. Take up a guarded, elitist attitude and you will find yourself catering to a small group of power-gamers that you will never be able to please. Be warned.

Edited by Antasius, 04 October 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[Crazyeyes244]

Decay over time would definitely be a bad call. Losing some if you "switched" from one side to another, that I could get behind.

Methinks this is their idea: when you switch to a new faction you get your "honorary" title, but might lose some LP (meaning you get to keep the content you unlocked, but maybe prices wont be as good, not "officially" a member of whatever canon unit you were in, but recognized as a former member.)

There has to be some kind of penalty for faction hopping.

[Marvyra]

Damn, I was glued to my screen the whole time! Community Warfare really sounds awesome! Definitely hope they take their time with it and polish it up. This'll be one epic experience!

[UXB]

Sandpit, on 04 October 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

I think the dynamics are different. In a subscription based game you are going to invest more time in general because you've already paid to play. They have your money so the degradation is no biggy. In a F2P game you have nothing invested but your time (if you so wish) which means PGI has to come up with a reason (other than, you know, gameplay, depth, longevity, etc.) for players to keep coming back so this is just another dynamic that encourages this.

How about new, compelling content? I know, crazy idea, right?

[Riptor]

Perhaps they will go with an achievement system where you need all five or six faction "max point" achievement to unlock wolfs dragoons?

That would allow for LP detoriation without making the requirement of having achieved max loyality points with all factions unrealistic.

It also would simulate more of an actuall wolfs dragoon feeling cause thats pretty much exactly what they did during their time when they where trucking through the inner sphere.

[Heffay]

Riptor, on 07 October 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

Perhaps they will go with an achievement system where you need all five or six faction "max point" achievement to unlock wolfs dragoons?

That would allow for LP detoriation without making the requirement of having achieved max loyality points with all factions unrealistic.

It also would simulate more of an actuall wolfs dragoon feeling cause thats pretty much exactly what they did during their time when they where trucking through the inner sphere.

Mercenary loyalty doesn't exist. The hate a House may have for a Merc unit will last only until the next time they need to hire them for a contract.

Maybe we shouldn't call it loyalty. Maybe it should be called reputation. You have a reputation as a merc unit for getting things done. Sure, you may have killed off half of the Steiner royal family, but when the other half needs you to raid a Kurita outpost...well, that's just business, eh? And you've proven yourself to be *very* effective in the past, so here, have some mechs at a discount to help make your job a little easier.

[Riptor]

Quote

[color=#959595]Mercenary loyalty doesn't exist. The hate a House may have for a Merc unit will last only until the next time they need to hire them for a contract.[/color]

Tell that to theodore kurita and Wolfs dragoons

Or Kathrina steiner (the *****.. not the cool one) and the kell hounds

Or the FWL and DC and Gray death legion (in the end the DC helped the Gray death legion only because the grays where able to find the helm data core... they had bargain leverage. If it hadnt been for that the DC would have watched with glee on the sidelines while the Legion gets torn apart)

Grudges are held between houses and merc units. The reason it is not more common in fluff is because the writers of the books focus more on the more famous names among the mercs, cause you know... thats what people want to read about (or wanted to read about) and its easier to focus on one group per author then have one author write about a dozen or so merc units. But there is no compelling reason why they should let stuff like that slide for non famous merc units if they wont for the famous ones.

Also Wolfs Dragoons are a faction unit, they wont even be available for merc units because they (the players) are allready in a merc unit. Wich they would have to leave before even able to join wolfs dragoons.

In order to join wolfs dragoons you would have to leave your current unit. Who would do that?

So it will be faction players that get the oportunity to join Wolfs dragoons even thought they arent mercs.

Kinda nonsensical really but thats what PGI is going with.

And since faction players are not mercs in the fluff aspect of all things they are indeed a bunch of traitors who jump ship from house to house. It makes no sense to keep loyality or reputation points if a once loyal soldier suddenly decides to jump ship and shoot at his former comrades.

Edited by Riptor, 07 October 2013 - 08:29 AM.

[oldradagast]

Antasius, on 04 October 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Rank decay would never, ever 'entice' me to come back to a game. If anything I would quit that game out of sheer principle.

You can't make people play your game out of 'fear', or the 'threat' of taking something away. Most people play games because they are fun, period. Make the game fun and people will throw money at you. Take up a guarded, elitist attitude and you will find yourself catering to a small group of power-gamers that you will never be able to please. Be warned.

Precisely.

If this evolves into some nonsense like "win enough matches per week with your current faction or something bad happens to your ability to enjoy the game." it'll go over far, far worse than 3rd person view did.

Any game mechanic that threatens vs. rewards is fundamentally flawed - Repair and Rearm, anyone? - and one that fails to account for the real world constraints of the players is also flawed.

Edited by oldradagast, 07 October 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Riptor]

oldradagast, on 07 October 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

Precisely.

If this evolves into some nonsense like "win enough matches per week with your current faction or something bad happens to your ability to enjoy the game." it'll go over far, far worse than 3rd person view did.

Any game mechanic that threatens vs. rewards is fundamentally flawed - Repair and Rearm, anyone? - and one that fails to account for the real world constraints of the players is also flawed.

Passive detoriation makes no sense really. I cant remember a single military organisation where you lost rank because you havent fought in any battle for a while.

But we are talking switching sides here from the US of A to the UDSSR.

You think Mr. President is still gonna have your picture on his front desk after he got word that youre now Stalins errant boy? And dont even talk about what Stalin will do once he figures out you played him and left for China

[Heffay]

Riptor, on 07 October 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

In order to join wolfs dragoons you would have to leave your current unit. Who would do that?

Is that a fact? You won't be able to have your merc corp work with Wolf Dragoons on contract? You know... contracts for your merc unit that are only available for ones who unlock them?

Edited by Heffay, 07 October 2013 - 08:40 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Riptor, on 07 October 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

In order to join wolfs dragoons you would have to leave your current unit. Who would do that?

Players who are not/do not want to be in a player Merc unit? This is kind of a silly question.

[Noth]

Heffay, on 07 October 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

Is that a fact? You won't be able to have your merc corp work with Wolf Dragoons on contract? You know... contracts for your merc unit that are only available for ones who unlock them?

That is not joining them, that is simply working for them. You wouldn't get the faction benefits that you would from joining them.

[Wintersdark]

Heffay, on 07 October 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

Is that a fact? You won't be able to have your merc corp work with Wolf Dragoons on contract? You know... contracts for your merc unit that are only available for ones who unlock them?

This and the post you quoted are unrelated. To JOIN Wolf's Dragoons (in MWO sense, technically a "faction" unit, though not tied to a particular faction), you couldn't be a member of a Merc unit. Either/or. You can't join two separate units.

What contracts are available to you would be what contracts are available to your Merc Unit. You cannot be a member of your Merc Unit and the Wolf's Dragoons at the same time.

[Heffay]

Noth, on 07 October 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

That is not joining them, that is simply working for them. You wouldn't get the faction benefits that you would from joining them.

That's fair. You shouldn't get the end-game faction benefits from House units or the Lone Wolf path either, if you choose the Merc unit path.

But my guess is that if you are eligible for the WD faction, you'll have their assets available to you as well. Just like if you max out your rep with the Steiners as a merc, you'll have some of their benefits available to you as well.

[Wintersdark]

Heffay, on 07 October 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

That's fair. You shouldn't get the end-game faction benefits from House units or the Lone Wolf path either, if you choose the Merc unit path.

But my guess is that if you are eligible for the WD faction, you'll have their assets available to you as well. Just like if you max out your rep with the Steiners as a merc, you'll have some of their benefits available to you as well.

Eligible for and being a member of are two very different things, though.

Essentially, *everybody* is always eligible to be a member of the Steiner faction. I'd imagine the vast majority of rewards related to that require actually being a member, or why would anyone bother actually joining a faction?

Edited by Wintersdark, 07 October 2013 - 08:54 AM.

[DirePhoenix]

Riptor, on 07 October 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Tell that to theodore kurita and Wolfs dragoons

Or Kathrina steiner (the *****.. not the cool one) and the kell hounds

Or the FWL and DC and Gray death legion (in the end the DC helped the Gray death legion only because the grays where able to find the helm data core... they had bargain leverage. If it hadnt been for that the DC would have watched with glee on the sidelines while the Legion gets torn apart)

Grudges are held between houses and merc units. The reason it is not more common in fluff is because the writers of the books focus more on the more famous names among the mercs, cause you know... thats what people want to read about (or wanted to read about) and its easier to focus on one group per author then have one author write about a dozen or so merc units. But there is no compelling reason why they should let stuff like that slide for non famous merc units if they wont for the famous ones.

Also Wolfs Dragoons are a faction unit, they wont even be available for merc units because they (the players) are allready in a merc unit. Wich they would have to leave before even able to join wolfs dragoons.

In order to join wolfs dragoons you would have to leave your current unit. Who would do that?

So it will be faction players that get the oportunity to join Wolfs dragoons even thought they arent mercs.

Kinda nonsensical really but thats what PGI is going with.

And since faction players are not mercs in the fluff aspect of all things they are indeed a bunch of traitors who jump ship from house to house. It makes no sense to keep loyality or reputation points if a once loyal soldier suddenly decides to jump ship and shoot at his former comrades.

Mercs get faction rep/LP just like faction loyalists do. The main difference between faction and mercs is where the contribution goes for victories/losses. Factions play for warfronts, Mercs play for planets beyond the fronts.

[Heffay]

Wintersdark, on 07 October 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

Eligible for and being a member of are two very different things, though.

Essentially, *everybody* is always eligible to be a member of the Steiner faction. I'd imagine the vast majority of rewards related to that require actually being a member, or why would anyone bother actually joining a faction?

How would the WD faction work when battling the House factions? Right now they are planning on putting Houses up against each other, using Lone Wolves to fill in the gaps. Would you have a WD dropping against a Steiner lance? Or would WD members be used like the lone wolves, as fillers for House battles?

If they have their own faction, I can foresee a future where there are so many different factions that getting a battle will be 1 Steiner vs 1 Kurita, and a bunch of lone wolves making up the rest.

Eh. So many things to figure out. I can be patient until they release more details. Us asking the questions means they probably asked the very same questions in house months ago.

[DirePhoenix]

Riptor, on 07 October 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Passive detoriation makes no sense really. I cant remember a single military organisation where you lost rank because you havent fought in any battle for a while.

But we are talking switching sides here from the US of A to the UDSSR.

You think Mr. President is still gonna have your picture on his front desk after he got word that youre now Stalins errant boy? And dont even talk about what Stalin will do once he figures out you played him and left for China

This is a game, not an actual military structure. Besides, you also don't get promoted just for hanging around long enough, which is what we'll have if there is no rank decay. After about a year everyone will be warlords or grand marshalls, and how realistic is that?