170 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

DirePhoenix, on 30 September 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

Decay LP during long periods of inactivity to reward active players. Someone that only plays once every couple months probably doesn't need to be promoted to Field Marshall and keep that rank indefinitely to feel that they're getting their playtime's worth.

If you do that and someone takes a couple of month sabbatical for whatever reason, they will have less reason to start the game up again. You'll also have issues like WoW did when they had their early Battleground system with rank decay. You end up with serious burnout issues, and people gaming the system to get the titles.

But primarily it's bad for returning players. The last thing they are going to want to do is redo a grind they already did.

[DirePhoenix]

Heffay, on 30 September 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

If you do that and someone takes a couple of month sabbatical for whatever reason, they will have less reason to start the game up again. You'll also have issues like WoW did when they had their early Battleground system with rank decay. You end up with serious burnout issues, and people gaming the system to get the titles.

But primarily it's bad for returning players. The last thing they are going to want to do is redo a grind they already did.

You've got a couple misperceptions indicated right there.

First, having a House rank is indicative of not only skill, but time dedicated. If you're not dedicating the time, you don't earn the rank.

Second, GRIND. Why would you grind at all? It was explained simply enough. If you're not playing, what does your rank mean? Nothing. Why do you need to hold onto it? YOU'RE NOT PLAYING. If having a rank matters to you, then keep playing. You want something offered with a specific rank? Work your way up, grab the item(s), and then I guess you're done until there's something else that you want from a rank higher than your own. If you take a break, your rank will drop, but it's not like they're going to take away the items you've already got. You just can't get more stuff until you earn your rank back up. These are part of the problems with looking at long-term game goals as "reach the finish line" or "fill the bucket" items. Ranks should not be things that you reach a goal line and then 'bam' you're done. They should be constant, and dynamic things that you work to maintain. The higher the rank, the harder it should be to maintain it.

[Heffay]

DirePhoenix, on 30 September 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

You've got a couple misperceptions indicated right there.

First, having a House rank is indicative of not only skill, but time dedicated. If you're not dedicating the time, you don't earn the rank.

Second, GRIND. Why would you grind at all? It was explained simply enough. If you're not playing, what does your rank mean? Nothing. Why do you need to hold onto it? YOU'RE NOT PLAYING. If having a rank matters to you, then keep playing. You want something offered with a specific rank? Work your way up, grab the item(s), and then I guess you're done until there's something else that you want from a rank higher than your own. If you take a break, your rank will drop, but it's not like they're going to take away the items you've already got. You just can't get more stuff until you earn your rank back up. These are part of the problems with looking at long-term game goals as "reach the finish line" or "fill the bucket" items. Ranks should not be things that you reach a goal line and then 'bam' you're done. They should be constant, and dynamic things that you work to maintain. The higher the rank, the harder it should be to maintain it.

I understand what you are saying. Now keep in mind that WoW went away from what you are saying for very, very good reasons. And there are other ways to keep the grind going other than decay, such as offering new factions to grind or adding another level.

LP decay is bad for the game.

Edited by Heffay, 30 September 2013 - 01:24 PM.

[Void2258]

I'll believe it when I see it in game.

[Stomp]

ThomasMarik, on 27 September 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

I only really have two notes.

First, It looks like the Merc units are getting most of the fun goodies while those who want to be a part of the houses are being left out.

Second, Why does it matter so much if an Atlas is cheaper to buy if I won a planet? I already own mechs and C-bills will accumulate even for the more expensive mechs. This seems like a barrier to play for newer people. Unless you are adding in some sort of Mech Durability to the game. Which I wouldn't be opposed to.

Well in the canon at least, getting a Battlemech is a big deal. They're a huge financial investment, which is why even the shittiest pilot is at least proficient in piloting one. Keeping them in tip-top repair is an even bigger financial stumbling block, which is why small merc units usually pilot smaller mechs, keep the prices down. If you had to pay for every actuator in an arm every time it was blown off, you might think about fighting a bit smarter. I think they're attempting to simulate this, because canon at least Battlemechs are rare. There's usually only 7-8 factories for a Battlemech throughout the IS... let that sink in. Others of course are really popular, but... sometimes they're not.

Which is why Kurita owns the K2 factories, because their fighting style is dictated by their code... it's why lots of Kurita mechs favor energy and melee weapons... no ammo required, just a fighting spirit. Factions' philosophies dictate design of Battlemechs, and vice versa. So if you're a Drac and you pilot a Victor... you're gonna have a bad time sourcing those arms/legs/parts from your mortal enemies. It connects it with faction warfare, and I like what they're suggesting, a more immersive feeling to what has been up until now, a first person shooter in mechs. It ****** people off too, but I like that. Get mad because I'm a Drac with loads of PPCs and Vibroswords, see if I cry.

[Corvus Antaka]

FactorlanP, on 30 September 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

I have no desire to be a member of Wolf's Dragoons...

I would much prefer it if working for a faction had the potential to harm relations with opposing factions. There needs to be trade offs... Fight for Kurita and you should expect some hostility from the Davions...

Wolfs dragoons was just an example he gave.

I do agree that hostility should be in, each faction should have at least 1 counter faction that you can only join with extreme penalties due to hostility.

Same with switching from clans to IS, this should be practically impossible.

[Stomp]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 30 September 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Wolfs dragoons was just an example he gave.

I do agree that hostility should be in, each faction should have at least 1 counter faction that you can only join with extreme penalties due to hostility.

Same with switching from clans to IS, this should be practically impossible.

Yeah I'm hoping with the release of the Clans we'll see "Bound" accounts. For instance, EVERYBODY right now is an IS pilot. But at Clan Launch I would like to see rewards for having two accounts, one for the Clans and one for IS. That way some IS chucklehead doesn't stomp around in a Timberwolf. I LIKE the Clans, and I LIKE Inner Sphere. But at a certain point they were completely different things; that time is now. Later on it'll be cool to see certain designs trickling over to the other sides, but for now I'm content for them to be separate and different entities.

Also I caught you in a game once in your, Spider or 'Mando, can't remember, you gave them a hell of a fight, good job.


EDIT: Or rather than having rewards for having both, you should have a certain amount of assets if you decide to switch, like all your C-bills earned will be transferred, or that you'll have random weight classes matched that you used to own will transfer to their Clan equivalents. Older players don't need to be penalized for having worked so hard for their stuff. But maybe with Clans there needs to be equality starting out. Older players aren't exempt from working hard for their Clantech. NEVER MIND I changed my own mind mid-text haha. Everybody works for their stuff, tough {Scrap}.

Edited by Stomp, 30 September 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[Heffay]

Stomp, on 30 September 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

EDIT: Or rather than having rewards for having both, you should have a certain amount of assets if you decide to switch, like all your C-bills earned will be transferred, or that you'll have random weight classes matched that you used to own will transfer to their Clan equivalents. Older players don't need to be penalized for having worked so hard for their stuff. But maybe with Clans there needs to be equality starting out. Older players aren't exempt from working hard for their Clantech. NEVER MIND I changed my own mind mid-text haha. Everybody works for their stuff, tough {Scrap}.

If they base it off their early descriptions of CW, you'll be able to buy non-faction items on the black market. So an IS pilot could run around in one of those.. what are they called? Timer Bolfs or something? It's just a matter of being willing to pony up enough money, and be willing to wash the test tube remains out of the cockpit.

[Stomp]

Heffay, on 30 September 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

If they base it off their early descriptions of CW, you'll be able to buy non-faction items on the black market. So an IS pilot could run around in one of those.. what are they called? Timer Bolfs or something? It's just a matter of being willing to pony up enough money, and be willing to wash the test tube remains out of the cockpit.

I honestly wouldn't mind Black Market prices as long as they're believable. A Timber Wolf or Mad Cat, what have you , would go for several times the amount a normal Heavy Mech would be liable to go for. If it's like 30 million C-bills (it's 24mil is for Clans I think) I'd be satisfied, or at least less miffed, because I can't see them creating a system of R & R for different mech types if they do decide to go ahead with Faction bound accounts. IS pilots should have to pay more for Clan mechs, and should pay more to maintain them. You're not a special snowflake hotshot pilot with a Timber Wolf in the IS without paying a pretty penny, lol. Oh, and did I mention they still have to buy three of them to Master? Have fun kids, I happen to like Hunchbacks haha.

[ArchAngelWC]

Its fun to come back to these forums occasionally and still see them adding new mechs/addons/{Scrap} and then going "but we will work on community warfare soon...after all its the heart of any battletech game...by the way we are releasing a new atlas for 30$"
I'm honestly hoping this game crashes and burns so someone can buy the IP "cheap" and hopefully those people..give a **** about battletech..as opposed to bleeding as much profit out of a community as possible..

[Heffay]

ArchAngelWC, on 30 September 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

Its fun to come back to these forums occasionally and still see them adding new mechs/addons/{Scrap} and then going "but we will work on community warfare soon...after all its the heart of any battletech game...by the way we are releasing a new atlas for 30$"
I'm honestly hoping this game crashes and burns so someone can buy the IP "cheap" and hopefully those people..give a **** about battletech..as opposed to bleeding as much profit out of a community as possible..

lol... everyone got off that train about 2 hours ago when they posted CW phase 1 info.

[Stomp]

ArchAngelWC, on 30 September 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

Its fun to come back to these forums occasionally and still see them adding new mechs/addons/{Scrap} and then going "but we will work on community warfare soon...after all its the heart of any battletech game...by the way we are releasing a new atlas for 30$"
I'm honestly hoping this game crashes and burns so someone can buy the IP "cheap" and hopefully those people..give a **** about battletech..as opposed to bleeding as much profit out of a community as possible..

I'm pretty sure about this, but I COULD be wrong, that the only thing driving the funding for this community is every dollar that comes out of our pockets. They receive little to no "funding" from outside sources. Our $30 for that Atlas is keeping the lights on at PGI so that they can keep our hopes alive another day. Keep moaning but leave for Christs' sake, we don't need your belly-aching on the forums making us all depressed.

[Sandpit]

Stomp, on 30 September 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure about this, but I COULD be wrong, that the only thing driving the funding for this community is every dollar that comes out of our pockets. They receive little to no "funding" from outside sources. Our $30 for that Atlas is keeping the lights on at PGI so that they can keep our hopes alive another day. Keep moaning but leave for Christs' sake, we don't need your belly-aching on the forums making us all depressed.

And people shouldn't moan and groan about others' opinions. If you enjoy the game play it and don't worry about what someone else thinks about it. If you don't like seeing a person's posts then block them so you don't see their posts. See how easy that is? With the post tonight it seems like they're starting to move in the right direction. I am still wary about it until I actually see it because they have been so slow to get this stuff implemented. Hey stomp? I live in Newport, so cheers yo!

[Johnny Z]

Heffay, on 30 September 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

If they base it off their early descriptions of CW, you'll be able to buy non-faction items on the black market. So an IS pilot could run around in one of those.. what are they called? Timer Bolfs or something? It's just a matter of being willing to pony up enough money, and be willing to wash the test tube remains out of the cockpit.

If so I hope the premium on buying cross faction mechs, especially IS and Clan is massive. I think strong definition between the factions is a huge bonus to game play and the character of such systems.

[Johnny Z]

DirePhoenix, on 30 September 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

But if you make a fixed goal - a "fill the bucket" type goal, then when the bucket is filled your game is over (sort of like our pilot/mech skill system is now*). In a long-running MMO, you don't need "fill-the-bucket", you need dynamic goals. Boost one faction at the cost of another. Decay LP during long periods of inactivity to reward active players. Someone that only plays once every couple months probably doesn't need to be promoted to Field Marshall and keep that rank indefinitely to feel that they're getting their playtime's worth.

*The lack of "loss" in this game (ex: no Repair & Reload) is also why any discussion of "Economy" in this game is a joke. We just earn and earn and earn... Eventually everyone can and will have everything, and multiple copies even. New items/modules have to be increasing amounts of ridiculously expensive because everyone keeps earning more and more, we don't have any loss to bring anything into balance unless you try selling/vendoring your used mechs/items. For emphasis: The only way to simulate a loss of funds is to *sell* your items. How does this make sense?

Agree with rank decay, and like anything else it can be balanced, no need for a decay to lowest rank, but maybe to a mid rank.

Edited by Johnny Z, 30 September 2013 - 08:24 PM.

[DirePhoenix]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 30 September 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Wolfs dragoons was just an example he gave. I do agree that hostility should be in, each faction should have at least 1 counter faction that you can only join with extreme penalties due to hostility. Same with switching from clans to IS, this should be practically impossible.

Not necessarily 1 counter per faction. Remember there are 5 factions (oh wait, the Rasalhague guys get their own splinter for a few years before getting swallowed up by the Clans) 6 factions, each has (at least) two enemies bordering it. A better system would be that you get negative "rep" for the faction you take a contract against. So if you're working for the FedSuns and you take a contract against the Dracs (and win), your rep with Davion goes up while your rep with Kurita goes down. If that FedSuns contract is against the Capellans and you win, your Liao rep goes down instead.

So this way the switching factions thing should be a giant balancing act. You can't get the decent missions until you have a higher rep with that faction, and they shouldn't be quick to like you if you've spent months decimating their forces, so you've got to prove yourself with them by running some of their more menial missions first. (or, if I were a House with a prospective Merc who has been known for murdering my armies in the past, I would send them on a suicide mission... if they live, well now I've got dead enemies; if they die, well I got rid of that guy that killed all my troops)

[Koniving]

I guess I need to catch up -- lots of posts I didn't know about.

But that said: I just discovered this. Apparently Thomas's post buried it.

http://mwomercs.com/...re-association/

[Midgie]

Having trouble getting excited about stuff that is probably nothing more than scribbles on a white board.

[Adrienne Vorton]

VIPER2207, on 27 September 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

well, i think that's because not a single line of code is written for CW until now. could bet on it =/

.... wrong... (just assuming, just like you )

btt: all in all it sounds pretty much like what i expected so far... with much potential for more

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 02 October 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Heffay, on 30 September 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

I understand what you are saying. Now keep in mind that WoW went away from what you are saying for very, very good reasons. And there are other ways to keep the grind going other than decay, such as offering new factions to grind or adding another level.

LP decay is bad for the game.

This.

Rank Decay, working to keep it... These are the opinions of folks who have lots of time for gaming.

They are NOT good game design criteria for grown ups with real responsibilities. Very, very many players simply can not "maintain" a grind - wow PvP was a very good example. When your content is gated not only on time invested but requiring continuing time investment at ever increasing levels, it's gated to only be available to players who have lots of free time to invest.

That's flat out terrible. You don't ever want to exclude players who don't have a lot of time.

It's one thing to require a certain amount of time to obtain something - this is entirely reasonable. Players understand that if they can't play that much, these things will take longer overall for them to achieve, and they are ok with that as a rule. But when you tell them they can simply never achieve those things simply because they'll never be able to put that much time into the game at once, that's just awful. That drives players away like nobodies business.

Don't forget... The players with the least time? Typically, they also have the most money. You want to keep those players around and invested in the game!