170 replies to this topic

[Clownwarlord]

Hmmm ... play and gather LP for every faction to unlock everything ... sounds good to me. But damn are a lot of people going to hate it.

I like it because then I have a chance to unlock a lot more stuff, with out losing what I gained. It will also in short term keep all the battle lines in motion from one group to the other due to people changing sides. Only after lots of people have unlocked everything will you see them settle in to one side or the other ... other then die hards which will try to stay story line.

Me though I am unconventional and am pro messing up everything so I will most likely go with the cash flow (come here C-Bills).

[Kyrie]

clownwarlord, on 30 September 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

Hmmm ... play and gather LP for every faction to unlock everything ... sounds good to me. But damn are a lot of people going to hate it.

I like it because then I have a chance to unlock a lot more stuff, with out losing what I gained. It will also in short term keep all the battle lines in motion from one group to the other due to people changing sides. Only after lots of people have unlocked everything will you see them settle in to one side or the other ... other then die hards which will try to stay story line.

Me though I am unconventional and am pro messing up everything so I will most likely go with the cash flow (come here C-Bills).

It should not be hard hard to come up with methods of unlocking content -- this particular proposed method of grinding out each faction, never losing standing with any of them as you blow up your former House-loyalists or what not is, IMHO, totally immersion-breaking and bad.

[w0rm]

It should decay. Especially when you gain LP for a hostile faction. Anything else breaks the immersion.

[Heffay]

w0rm, on 30 September 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

It should decay. Especially when you gain LP for a hostile faction. Anything else breaks the immersion.

Did it decay for the Wolf's Dragoons?

[w0rm]

Heffay, on 30 September 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

Did it decay for the Wolf's Dragoons?

Yip.

Edited by w0rm, 30 September 2013 - 06:45 AM.

[Zyllos]

I am not honestly sure that LP will not decay.

If you listen closely, he said there will be no negative LP, thus you can't go below 0. But he never said LP will never decay.

Now he did say that when you leave a faction, you will retain honorary status that you where at when you left but that still leaves the option of your LP to decay to that faction.

So you gain Wolf's Dragoon status, you have to have honorary status maximum in each faction, but that does not mean you need to have maximum LP at the same time.

So, while a House may honor your previous status, they will not give you the "good" contracts until you gain back your LP back to a said faction.

Also, the LP decay, if what I am saying is true, could be done by other means if the contracts only decay LPs against the faction the contract is against. This is a good way to implement Merc units that are loyal to a specific House or Houses.

[DirePhoenix]

w0rm, on 30 September 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

It should decay. Especially when you gain LP for a hostile faction. Anything else breaks the immersion.

Zyllos, on 30 September 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

I am not honestly sure that LP will not decay.

If you listen closely, he said there will be no negative LP, thus you can't go below 0. But he never said LP will never decay.

Now he did say that when you leave a faction, you will retain honorary status that you where at when you left but that still leaves the option of your LP to decay to that faction.

So you gain Wolf's Dragoon status, you have to have honorary status maximum in each faction, but that does not mean you need to have maximum LP at the same time.

So, while a House may honor your previous status, they will not give you the "good" contracts until you gain back your LP back to a said faction.

Also, the LP decay, if what I am saying is true, could be done by other means if the contracts only decay LPs against the faction the contract is against. This is a good way to implement Merc units that are loyal to a specific House or Houses.

Here's how it can work with LP decay:

They already said they were also working on an achievement system. Have an achievement for each House when you reach 100% with them. In order to be eligible for Wolf's Dragoons, you'd need the 100% achievement for all House factions.

This way, you'd still need to be active enough that you LP doesn't decay with the faction you're working on, and if you take a contract against that faction it can still lower that faction's rep.

[Riptor]

Heffay, on 30 September 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

Did it decay for the Wolf's Dragoons?

Oh hell yeah... Kurita wanted to keep them as mercenaries when wolfs dragoons wanted to change employers and all hell broke loose.

The chancelor even had two mechs in his throne room just in case jaime wolf would come along and challange him to a duell if i remember correctly.

There was some really bad blood between them.

On the other hand we are not talking mercenaries here.. mercenaries where usally seen as what they where.. warriors for money. Ofcourse if you did work for some houses exclusivly you would get certain benefits, benefits normal merc units would not get.

But we are talking loyalists here... those are more akin to the military forces of the individual houses. I cant really imagine Steiner would still think of you as a great guy that should freely use their house unit camos and decals if you switched sides to the DC you know.

[Johnny Z]

Riptor, on 30 September 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Oh hell yeah... Kurita wanted to keep them as mercenaries when wolfs dragoons wanted to change employers and all hell broke loose.

The chancelor even had two mechs in his throne room just in case jaime wolf would come along and challange him to a duell if i remember correctly.

There was some really bad blood between them.

On the other hand we are not talking mercenaries here.. mercenaries where usally seen as what they where.. warriors for money. Ofcourse if you did work for some houses exclusivly you would get certain benefits, benefits normal merc units would not get.

But we are talking loyalists here... those are more akin to the military forces of the individual houses. I cant really imagine Steiner would still think of you as a great guy that should freely use their house unit camos and decals if you switched sides to the DC you know.

Well said, this is the kind of house standings I was hoping to see when CW finally gets added.

[Sandpit]

It seems like a lot of things (except pricing) are gearing more for the casual player. Decaying LP aren't going to affect the hardcore clans that log in regularly and play, but they would affect casual gamers who jump on once or twice a week for a few matches here and there.

[FactorlanP]

I really don't like the concept of grinding up all the factions to become a Wolf's Dragoon.

I have no desire to be a member of Wolf's Dragoons...

I would much prefer it if working for a faction had the potential to harm relations with opposing factions. There needs to be trade offs... Fight for Kurita and you should expect some hostility from the Davions...

What they seem to be describing is a system where there is no real reason to be loyal to any one faction. A player can hop, at will, from faction to faction...

It doesn't sound like compelling game play to me.

[Zakie Chan]

This is a huge morale lift. Really hope it turns out well and in a timely fashion!

[Heffay]

FactorlanP, on 30 September 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

I really don't like the concept of grinding up all the factions to become a Wolf's Dragoon.

I have no desire to be a member of Wolf's Dragoons...

I would much prefer it if working for a faction had the potential to harm relations with opposing factions. There needs to be trade offs... Fight for Kurita and you should expect some hostility from the Davions...

What they seem to be describing is a system where there is no real reason to be loyal to any one faction. A player can hop, at will, from faction to faction...

It doesn't sound like compelling game play to me.

Fortunately you don't have to participate in that aspect if you don't like it.

[Roadbeer]

I'm left with more questions than answers, and even more feel like the "loyalists" are just content for the mercs... even though many communities for the "Factions" have been around as long, if not longer than the game itself.

[Sandpit]

Heffay, on 30 September 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

Fortunately you don't have to participate in that aspect if you don't like it.

I agree, however, it still doesn't give a player any reason to be loyal to any particular faction. You have have more incentive to jump around and play for different houses than you do to pick a faction and play for it. I think this has potential for abuse such as players jumping to other factions to sabotage their holdings and them jumping back to their "home" faction and reaping the benefits. I don't think you should encourage players to just jump from house to house. At the VERY least there should be some sort of check set up so that players don't do things like this

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

The reference to the "end game" loyalty points only being the "Wolf's Dragoon's" is not correct.

Bryan stated that this "Item of merit" was only one of the final goals and definitely not the only one. This unit was used as an example as it is a common through-out the Inner Sphere and fairly recognizable by all players involved.

There are others that have not been mentioned, that I am assuming would also give similar bonus's to Equipment, Mech's, Contracts, and Price's. Some that would also have global affiliation as well as other's that were limited to smaller area's of the IS.

Holding a specific Rank and Loyalty Point level within one House does not and will not gain you any bonus's if your affiliation changes. A major in one House would not start at that level for another House, it would have to be "Earned" and probably mean you start with the new Houses lower tier Mech's only (like House trial Mech's) till you have proved your skill and then allowed to pilot your own mech's.
[brings a whole new meaning to weight and role skill based play, as you need all the level skills for each weight class to progress through each House's Ranks.]

The benefit for Loyalist players is there is no "Overhead" cost to playing, no costs to hold a planet, no cost to upgrade or just maintain base's, and no Drop ship costs as everything is paid for by the House. (you just have to go where they tell you to go and fight who they say, at the time.) The Loyalist player would get "perks" for being in that House, specific mech's and weapons that each House "Owns" or controls the factories would give discounts and easer access to. But you may not be allowed to purchase certain "Systems" or "Items" as they would be classed as "Black Market" and the repairs or replacement could not be done by the House Tech's. (a plausible reason for a type of "repair and rearm" to just those elements, PGI you listening)

Heck there hasn't even been any talk or discussion on just who owns or where the "jump Ships" are yet, are they simple transport contracts during the game. If you thought that it was expensive to own and maintain a "Drop Ship" or 2, then just wait till you see the cost of the big transports.

The Wolf's Dragoon's are not the only Top Tier highly successful element within this time line. Just one of the more popular and better equipped elements.

Later,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 30 September 2013 - 11:58 AM.

[Riptor]

9erRed, on 30 September 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

Greetings all,

The reference to the "end game" loyalty points only being the "Wolf's Dragoon's" is not correct.

Bryan stated that this "Item of merit" was only one of the final goals and definitely not the only one. This unit was used as an example as it is a common through-out the Inner Sphere and fairly recognizable by all players involved.

There are others that have not been mentioned, that I am assuming would also give similar bonus's to Equipment, Mech's, Contracts, and Price's. Some that would also have global affiliation as well as other's that were limited to smaller area's of the IS.

Heck there hasn't even been any talk or discussion on just who owns or where the "jump Ships" are yet, are they simple transport contracts during the game. If you thought that it was expensive to own and maintain a "Drop Ship" or 2, then just wait till you see the cost of the big transports.

The Wolf's Dragoon's are not the only Top Tier highly successful element within this time line. Just one of the more popular and better equipped elements.

Later,
9erRed

Wolfs Dragooms.. schmolfs dragoons..

This isnt about rewards this is about freely jumping around the inner sphere houses being a backstabbing little traitor without any consequences.

Also just putting up rules against sabotaging and spying on the faction you joined will not keep that stuff from happening. This is a free to play game and people will go the extra mile and create alternate accounts through proxies and whatnot to abuse a system like that up the bazoo.

It is a terrible shortsighted and weak system.

[Heffay]

Sandpit, on 30 September 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

I agree, however, it still doesn't give a player any reason to be loyal to any particular faction. You have have more incentive to jump around and play for different houses than you do to pick a faction and play for it. I think this has potential for abuse such as players jumping to other factions to sabotage their holdings and them jumping back to their "home" faction and reaping the benefits. I don't think you should encourage players to just jump from house to house. At the VERY least there should be some sort of check set up so that players don't do things like this

I like how you get to simulate the Wolf's Dragoons progress as they worked for every house. And the fact that they took contracts for one House against another didn't prevent them from being hired by the other house later on. So for mercs, it does seem to be a decent system. You're a merc and the hate a House may have for you will only last until the next time they need to hire you.

However, for the House loyalists, it does seem like there should be a different sort of end game for their play. Maybe as a merc you can only get to X level of loyalty (the max for a merc), but for a House Loyalist you can get to Y, which should take the same amount of playtime as it takes the Mercs to join the Dragoons.

You can't have too many negative penalties for people shifting in the game though, as that tends to burn people out.

Edited by Heffay, 30 September 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[Roadbeer]

The idea of a "Loyalist" switching factions to become a "Loyalist" there, then rinse/repeat to get some "End Game" content is absurd and defies the very definition of "Loyalist".

This would make sense for merc units, but for those pledged to one of the Great Houses... seriously?

[DirePhoenix]

Heffay, on 30 September 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

You can't have too many negative penalties for people shifting in the game though, as that tends to burn people out.

But if you make a fixed goal - a "fill the bucket" type goal, then when the bucket is filled your game is over (sort of like our pilot/mech skill system is now*). In a long-running MMO, you don't need "fill-the-bucket", you need dynamic goals. Boost one faction at the cost of another. Decay LP during long periods of inactivity to reward active players. Someone that only plays once every couple months probably doesn't need to be promoted to Field Marshall and keep that rank indefinitely to feel that they're getting their playtime's worth.

*The lack of "loss" in this game (ex: no Repair & Reload) is also why any discussion of "Economy" in this game is a joke. We just earn and earn and earn... Eventually everyone can and will have everything, and multiple copies even. New items/modules have to be increasing amounts of ridiculously expensive because everyone keeps earning more and more, we don't have any loss to bring anything into balance unless you try selling/vendoring your used mechs/items. For emphasis: The only way to simulate a loss of funds is to *sell* your items. How does this make sense?

Edited by DirePhoenix, 30 September 2013 - 12:40 PM.