210 replies to this topic

[Wolf Clearwater]

kiriage, on 21 November 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

..and really no less ridiculous than taking two blobs to a predefined point and smashing it out..

.

I will give you that. This is why I am not looking forward to TDM. I am not arguing whether or not tactics should be used. I am not even arguing capping as a tactic, just cap rushing.

Edited by Wolf87535, 21 November 2013 - 08:52 PM.

[XphR]

Captain, at this speed, a full facepalm imminent.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Wolf87535, on 21 November 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

I will give you that. This is why I am not looking forward to TDM. I am not arguing whether or not tactics should be used. I am not even arguing capping as a tactic, just cap rushing.

Cap rushing as a team?
Maybe, maybe not (I lean toward not as big a problem as it could be, if only because as a pug - well, explained below)

Cap rushing as an individual/small group?
I would argue that it is perfectly viable, for the same reasons that capping at all is viable.
I will, on the occasion, rush almost immediately toward the enemy base - if looking at the average of both teams, there is little else my mech can do to help
(as I have been playing locusts lately, it has happened... less often. because I cannot afford to be caught alone)

Unfortunately, there are times, when, as I run off toward the enemy base, when my whole team decides to follow me.
There is not much I can do about that .
I usually type out for them to stay back or to fight the enemy - but since when do (on average) puggers listen?

[kiriage]

I still think simultaneous capping is a bit odd, ..lets see who can capture each others base faster? I kinda think having no one capping your own base should maybe be a requirement for allowing you to cap..that might add a little more interest and tactical manoeuvring into the game.

[Rushin Roulette]

Gallowglas, on 19 November 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Perhaps you mean that a cap rush only happens 15% of the time?

No... it means what is written there. 15% of the games are won by capping. This not only includes the cap rushes, it also includes the matches where both teams are fighting intensely and one guy goes capping, or where teh scouts just forget to get off the base fast enough, or where the last lone survivor with one leg and no weapons of a team finshes the cap for the win.

The complained cap rush in itself is not held in any statistic of its own, but it can be guaranttted to be well below the stated 15% because of all the possible variables for a cap win.

How about all the adament cap criticizers make their own statistic. Write down the statistics of cap rush teams you play against or with (At least 4 players must have under 50 damage and have received the cap XP bonus which is easy to see on the end of match screen). A sample statistic of at least 100 games per person should be needed to get an accurate percentage overall.

[WarHippy]

Wolf87535, on 21 November 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

I didn't say I did not like capping in general, at any point. READING, it can empower a person. Try it, you may like it.
Cap rushing is griefing. Get over it. So you found a way to grief within the rules. There are no tears here, only contempt.

Do read what I wrote. I said to come up with a compelling argument that doesn't involve attacking other people, or proclaiming your opinion as fact, and so far you have failed pretty miserably at that. Cap rushing is no different than any other capping. They are one in the same, which is why I said in general. Perhaps it is you that needs to Get Over It, because it is not griefing period.

Wolf87535, on 21 November 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

Definition of Griefing (from the Urban Dictionary)
1. Purposefully shooting or otherwise sabotaging your teammates in an online game. (nope, cap rushing doesn't do that)
2. In online gaming where one repeatedly killing the same individual or individuals over and over again, or camping their corpse to prevent them from retrieving it, or otherwise performing actions in a game to prevent the player from enjoying the game.
(well cap rushing is deliberately performing actions to prevent all the other players from enjoying the game)
3. In online gaming, someone who takes pleasure in creating grief for an opponent via various "cheap" tactics.
(wow perfect description of cap rushing)

1.Irrelivant.
2.This one applies to you as much as any of us. By constantly running blindly across the map, and crying about getting capped you are trying to prevent other players from enjoying the game the way they want.
3.Cap rushing isn't a cheap tactic, but rather a legitimate strategy. However, watching the crying from tactically icompetent players is rather enjoyable.

Wolf87535, on 21 November 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

So that makes 2 out of 3. In case you have trouble with math, 2 is more 1, and meeting 1 definition would still make it griefing. Whether PGI currently agrees or not, I don't care. Enough of their players do, and it shows when someone steps on the cap. Your opinion is yours, keep it, I won't change your mind, you won't change mine.

No, I won't change my mind or yours, but I will continue to give my opinion so long as you incessantly flap your gums.

[Helsbane]

XPH Aku, on 21 November 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

I shouldn't have to play every single game with a group, I have a clan that I am a part of we play almost every day. Turns out we aren't all blessed by being Davion trolls, who only care about winning and not about playing the game. The definition of trolling is to deliberately **** off the other players, and you flat said that when you take your team to rush base cap it is to deliberately **** off other players. I still think that teams have no business playing against pugs, and ELO balances should solve every thing else, they are good points and no matter how you argue that we should all just play in teams all the time sometimes you are looking for a fast evenly matched game, and not for a big team game that takes time to set up. Also I stick to base rushing is stupid, you get more xp and c-bills not to do it so it is truly trolling both teams to rush it because in a game you make 50,000 to 100,000 more c-bills and about 500 more xp if you fight like a man.
But then you are a Davion, and your choice of house shows your personality, so you will never understand doing things because it is fun for everyone and not just you.

I'm truly sorry that I'm not making the experience fun for everybody. /sarcasmoff

Then again, I didn't grow up in the generation of 'nobody loses, everyone's a winner!' I'm there to get my team the W, and I give a fat damn if you enjoy that or not. When CW drops (you know, the year 2017 or so) or you get into the Proxis league matches, you'll come to understand that winning is all that counts. Till then, here's a gold star! Wear it with participant's pride champ.

[Joseph Mallan]

Gallowglas, on 19 November 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Perhaps you mean that a cap rush only happens 15% of the time? Because cap mechanics and people having to react to a cap happens in most matches. And saying that a broken or non-fun mechanic only happens 15% of the time isn't a strong argument it should remain in the game. If you got a HUD bug or a CTD 15% of all matches, would that be acceptable?

A CAP win happens less than 15% of the time. Not a cap attempt.

Quote

So what tactic prevents 4 lights with cap accelerator from taking your base on a big map before you can mount a defense? Base camping? Is it compelling gameplay to have both groups sitting on their base on big maps for fear of a cap race happening? Is it good tactics when you leave mechs off the front line so that your main force gets steamrolled because a cap didn't happen? What happens when the matchmaker doesn't give you a good mix of fast mechs? Yes, that latter point is out of your control, but guess what: you still have to contend with it. Additionally, until something like CW hits, you're dreaming if you think that this or any other community is going to miraculously start acting as a coherent unit. Let's face it: most people's scoresheet is their personal K/D ratio, like it or not.

You take yot Catapult beck to base and you engage those 4 lights, and if necessary you die defending your base. Like I did yesterday. Myself, then a Shadowhawk RTB and fought off the cap by 3 Lights. I died, but we stopped the cap. That is the tactic you employ.

Quote

Again, I'm not arguing that it's something you shouldn't find a way to deal with. You quite obviously should. I'm arguing that it's not compelling gameplay for a large number of players in its current implementation. Is a base defense mechanic in some game modes needed? Sure. I'd be fine with it with tweaks, such as base turrets or a lockout time. However, some of you don't seem to grasp why people might complain that there is no game mode where you don't have to worry about the possibility of having a horde of ECM Spiders with cap accelerator race to your base the moment your assaults get a reasonable distance away. Your only response to the frustration of not having any other option is "L2DefendN00b". That baffles me.

Those that do not find it compelling have not tried to save the base obviously. Cause there is a lot of excitement protecting your base.

We won the match with less than 25% life left on the Base.

[Joseph Mallan]

XPH Aku, on 21 November 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

I shouldn't have to play every single game with a group, I have a clan that I am a part of we play almost every day. Turns out we aren't all blessed by being Davion trolls, who only care about winning and not about playing the game. The definition of trolling is to deliberately **** off the other players, and you flat said that when you take your team to rush base cap it is to deliberately **** off other players. I still think that teams have no business playing against pugs, and ELO balances should solve every thing else, they are good points and no matter how you argue that we should all just play in teams all the time sometimes you are looking for a fast evenly matched game, and not for a big team game that takes time to set up. Also I stick to base rushing is stupid, you get more xp and c-bills not to do it so it is truly trolling both teams to rush it because in a game you make 50,000 to 100,000 more c-bills and about 500 more xp if you fight like a man.
But then you are a Davion, and your choice of house shows your personality, so you will never understand doing things because it is fun for everyone and not just you.

Using our own logic every single game should not be a TDM.
The victory conditions are:
CAPTURE THE ENEMY BASE
Kill the enemy team.

The very first victory condition is what you are calling "Trolling". Sit down sir, you argument is mote.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 November 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[-Muta-]

Edited by Mutaroc, 22 November 2013 - 06:59 AM.

[Wolf Clearwater]

WarHippy, on 22 November 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Do read what I wrote. I said to come up with a compelling argument that doesn't involve attacking other people, or proclaiming your opinion as fact, and so far you have failed pretty miserably at that. Cap rushing is no different than any other capping. They are one in the same, which is why I said in general. Perhaps it is you that needs to Get Over It, because it is not griefing period.

1.Irrelivant.
2.This one applies to you as much as any of us. By constantly running blindly across the map, and crying about getting capped you are trying to prevent other players from enjoying the game the way they want.
3.Cap rushing isn't a cheap tactic, but rather a legitimate strategy. However, watching the crying from tactically icompetent players is rather enjoyable.
No, I won't change my mind or yours, but I will continue to give my opinion so long as you incessantly flap your gums.

I think you prove my points just fine.

[WarHippy]

Wolf87535, on 22 November 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

I think you prove my points just fine.

Your comprehension of reality is mind boggling.

[Wolf Clearwater]

I am glad you think so.

[WarHippy]

Wolf87535, on 22 November 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

I am glad you think so.

So you are telling me that you gave up on the argument because you can't come up with a proper rebuttal? Good to know I can rest easy now that you have given up.

I must say this is shocking.

[-Muta-]

OMG THIS IS STILL ALIVE....GET OVER IT!

[Wolf Clearwater]

WarHippy, on 22 November 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

So you are telling me that you gave up on the argument because you can't come up with a proper rebuttal? Good to know I can rest easy now that you have given up.

I must say this is shocking.

Yes. Clearly your grasp on trolling and argument of "but PGI doesn't think it is bad" are very compelling, and use overwhelming logic and deep analysis.

Edited by Wolf87535, 22 November 2013 - 08:11 AM.

[Crasox]

Mutaroc, on 22 November 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

OMG THIS IS STILL ALIVE....GET OVER IT!

Mutaroc, on 22 November 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Mutaroc, on 21 November 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Please...

Mutaroc, on 21 November 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Once again

Mutaroc, on 20 November 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE IT SO...

After all this they still do not get it.

[aniviron]

"It's such *********, I run to their base without even thinking and the other team has the audacity to the the exact same thing!! There should be rules in place to prevent me from being incredibly stupid!"

[WarHippy]

Wolf87535, on 22 November 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Yes. Clearly your grasp on trolling and argument of "but PGI doesn't think it is bad" are very compelling, and use overwhelming logic and deep analysis.

Wait, I thought you gave up, and now you falsely accuse me of trolling?

However, I will bite and say that my arguments were at least balanced in the fact I think what one finds to be fun is subjective, and that proclaiming ones opinion as fact is absurd. The hypocrisy of your argument is that you want to take the fun from others because they are not playing the way you feel they should play.





By the way when did I ever use the "but PGI doesn't think it is bad" argument?

Edited by WarHippy, 22 November 2013 - 09:06 AM.

[-Muta-]

WarHippy, on 22 November 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Wait, I thought you gave up, and now you falsely accuse me of trolling?

However, I will bite and say that my arguments were at least balanced in the fact I think what one finds to be fun is subjective, and that proclaiming ones opinion as fact is absurd. The hypocrisy of your argument is that you want to take the fun from others because they are not playing the way you feel they should play.





By the way when did I ever use the "but PGI doesn't think it is bad" argument?

Hey wait a minute there sir!...