48 replies to this topic

[Sybreed]

CYBRN4CR, on 02 October 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Good point. CASEs are so rarely used because the ammo explosion chance is so low and people feel they can get away with storing ammo in limbs.

If the ammo explosion chance was increased, or exploded if the mech was way over the safe shutdown levels, (with CASE preventing the explosion from outright killing you while shutdown) then it would give a reason to using CASE. If the ammo explosion chance was increased in general, it would appropriately buff crit-weapons, gausses, and energy weapon use without totally discouraging the use of normal ammo weapons.

but, like I said, getting 1 or 2 CASE is so easy with endo steel and DHS, I doubt this would even be an issue.

[Thomas Dziegielewski]

If someone puts ammo in their head and rolls an ammo explosion the head should pop off.


detonate the cockpit at the very least

[Monky]

I liked the 'pop.... pop pop ppoppopopoppopp' we used to get but it needed a graphical element to it, or if it had one it was too subtle. Something similar to the tank video Thomas posted would be great.

[A Man In A Can]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 02 October 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

If someone puts ammo in their head and rolls an ammo explosion the head should pop off.


detonate the cockpit at the very least

Yup you'd die if you still had ammo left in there (ammo gets used from the Head first) and then on the paper doll you'd see your head totally black and the reason being "AMMO EXPLOSION" I think people would be totally okay with that. Maybe even think a bit before putting ammo in there.

Pass the word on to Paul & co about these ideas, Thomas.

Sybreed, on 02 October 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

but, like I said, getting 1 or 2 CASE is so easy with endo steel and DHS, I doubt this would even be an issue.

EDIT: Ohhh I get ya. Yeah Lord v said it. Case does not prevent ammo explosions. It just prevents explosions from killing you outright by deflecting the damage away from the CT. If you had a standard engine this would mean you were able to keep fighting. If you had an XL engine it wouldn't help and I think it is the heavy use of XL engines that players are forgoing CASE.

Well, if there was more direct visual feedback of ammo cooking off, with perhaps an increased chance to do so, then I think people would consider standard engine loadouts with CASE more, along with XL energy boats, and exchanging some ammo in builds for CASE that thought they could get away from it.

Edited by CYBRN4CR, 02 October 2013 - 09:06 PM.

[Lord Perversor]

Sybreed, on 02 October 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

ammo explosions are so rare... big reason being endo-steel and DHS so easy to acquire, everyone has tonnage to spare for a single or even 2 CASES.

And the chances for ammo explosion are already very low..... why did PGI lower that chance again?

I miss the old days of CB when destroying a mech part without CASE instantly resulted in ammo explosion.

Good times

Darn i forgot we had a nerf to the ammo explosion chances back in closed beta..

Also i do not think Case it's the reason for lack of ammo explosions , but mostly the minmaxing and quick finishing battles.
I mean we all know that 99% of players carry ammo in the legs but still we keep focusing firing the CT or side torsos if we suspect or know the opponent carry XL engine.

Edit: also some special animation for ammo explosion death would be cool, just like in WoT or CoH with vehicles, the destroyed Mech instead explode like normal, turns full speed and walks XX distance before explode and fall apart covering in flames.

this would bring a lot of inmersion, since some players would still believe the Mech is operative and keep focusing the already dead mech...

Edited by Lord Perversor, 02 October 2013 - 08:55 PM.

[Sybreed]

CYBRN4CR, on 02 October 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

Yup you'd die if you still had ammo left in there (ammo gets used from the Head first) and then on the paper doll you'd see your head totally black and the reason being "AMMO EXPLOSION" I think people would be totally okay with that. Maybe even think a bit before putting ammo in there.

Pass the word on to Paul & co about these ideas, Thomas.


EDIT: Ohhh I get ya. Yeah Lord v said it. Case does not prevent ammo explosions. It just prevents explosions from killing you outright by deflecting the damage away from the CT. If you had a standard engine this would mean you were able to keep fighting. If you had an XL engine it wouldn't help and I think it is the heavy use of XL engines that players are forgoing CASE.

Well, if there was more direct visual feedback of ammo cooking off, with perhaps an increased chance to do so, then I think people would consider standard engine loadouts with CASE more, along with XL energy boats, and exchanging some ammo in builds for CASE that thought they could get away from it.

true. But he's also right when saying that big pinpoint dmg make ammo explosions also pretty rare. I don't even remember the last time I died from AE...

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 01 October 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Our testers just took a look at it and there is nothing wrong .

Popcorn damage still happens and particle effects play as intended.

Thomas, I know you're a very busy man with all the other things you have on your plate.

But please add in more catastrophic, area effect, type ammo explosions. Something around the lines of...

ammo 'popcorn' detonation threshold > X amount of damage -> trigger massive explosions dealing % damage/heat to nearby mechs.


It would be a large proejct tho, ganna need the art guys and your engineers to create a new firey 'splosion effect as well as essentially a whole new game mechanic. But PLEASE, trust me. It would be an amazing addition to the game. Players mouths would drop if they saw a spectacle like that, and imagine the panic of players faces should one mech like that detonate around them.

That, is immersion.


And you can't tell me a player wouldn't be happy that their LRM boat, Ac2 -whatever - went out in a literal BANG!

Edit: Now that I think about it, going to have to implement some type of "jettison ammo" command as well like past mechwarrior games had.

Edited by mwhighlander, 02 October 2013 - 09:16 PM.

[A Man In A Can]

Sybreed, on 02 October 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

true. But he's also right when saying that big pinpoint dmg make ammo explosions also pretty rare. I don't even remember the last time I died from AE...

This is why I suggested increasing the ammo explosion chance. Yes pinpoint damage is a threat, and can still chop off your sides or CT at range, prompting ammo in the limbs legs and head, but if a player is smart and attacks those limbs, and follows it up with crit weapons then you are just as hosed and will go out in a big beautiful BANG.

Just thought of something too. Ammo all across the board has a 10% chance to explode with 10 health per slot. What combo of health and explosive chance would be appropriate as a general all across the board solution, and what would be appropriate on a per-weapon basis?

Edited by CYBRN4CR, 02 October 2013 - 11:25 PM.

[Fooooo]

A much better effect would be nice.

Possibly louder sounds also when the boom happens.


Say you get an ammo explosion in your RT, and this explosion causes loss of the section. A huge explosion should happen that blows bits of metal chunks everywhere.
(seeming as the mech parts dont actually "fall off" or change much when destroyed anymore bar the arms, otherwise you would just make the mech lose its arm and RT, sparks coming off constantly , fires burning / smoke etc etc)

It just needs more of a visual/audio effect imo,

1 to make it easier to see when you inflict them, and 2 because its a neat visual effect for everyone who could see it happen, basically the "cool" factor.

Edited by Fooooo, 03 October 2013 - 03:06 AM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Fooooo, on 03 October 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

A much better effect would be nice.

Possibly louder sounds also when the boom happens.

It just needs more of a visual/audio effect imo,

Exactly right. Its too unnoticable. We're talking literal TONS of ammo cooking off and exploding.

[aniviron]

My understanding is that ammo only has a 10% chance to explode. Can anyone confirm this?

If this is the case, it seems a bit silly- it means there's no real reason to target ammo-containing locations, and very little penalty for having ammo poorly protected. It'd make a lot more sense to have explosions happen more often, but for less damage, i.e. getting a crit on ammo isn't instantly lethal like it is now, but instead might only do enough damage to take off whatever it's in and half of what it's connected to. That would make it worth targeting, without making that OP.

[AgroAlba]

I thought it was just my perception, but I guess not. The ammo explosions need to be much more noticible and audible. More feedback for the player is always a good thing. Makes it feel gratifying.

[Thomas Dziegielewski]

aniviron, on 04 October 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

My understanding is that ammo only has a 10% chance to explode. Can anyone confirm this?

If this is the case, it seems a bit silly- it means there's no real reason to target ammo-containing locations, and very little penalty for having ammo poorly protected. It'd make a lot more sense to have explosions happen more often, but for less damage, i.e. getting a crit on ammo isn't instantly lethal like it is now, but instead might only do enough damage to take off whatever it's in and half of what it's connected to. That would make it worth targeting, without making that OP.

It's a little more complex then that. Especially with Machine guns as the crit can happen per shot. 10% is dumbing it down, but ya it's 6% for the first critical 3% for the second and 1% for the third PER BULLET (10 times a second) and then the chance for it to detonate the ammo (10%, 90% for Gauss). Other weapons have different crit percentages. Like LBX 14%, 8%, 3%

I think this crit stuff is from TT.

[Lyoto Machida]

1) You guys are pretty funny with CASE. Seems like only suckers use CASE nowadays. I run ballistics (and LRMs occasionally) commonly and rarely die from ammo explosions. You'd have to get a crit to the ammo and then there's only a 1 in 10 chance of it cooking off.

2) I don't know why the ammo explosion effects were turned down but they should be put back to where they were in closed beta.

[Zyllos]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 08 October 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

It's a little more complex then that. Especially with Machine guns as the crit can happen per shot. 10% is dumbing it down, but ya it's 6% for the first critical 3% for the second and 1% for the third PER BULLET (10 times a second) and then the chance for it to detonate the ammo (10%, 90% for Gauss). Other weapons have different crit percentages. Like LBX 14%, 8%, 3%

I think this crit stuff is from TT.

I think he was talking about the chance for ammo to detonate after it has been crit'ed upon for up to 10 points of damage.

So, you have to first get a random critical hit on the single critical slot ammo bin. Second, you have to do that to where it totals 10 points of damage. And then third, you have only a 10% chance of it blowing up.

I think that should be changed to 50% chance of blowing up.

[aniviron]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 08 October 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

It's a little more complex then that. Especially with Machine guns as the crit can happen per shot. 10% is dumbing it down, but ya it's 6% for the first critical 3% for the second and 1% for the third PER BULLET (10 times a second) and then the chance for it to detonate the ammo (10%, 90% for Gauss). Other weapons have different crit percentages. Like LBX 14%, 8%, 3%

I think this crit stuff is from TT.

Yep, I was referencing exactly what Zyllos says above. I actually rather like the way the crit system works in this game for the most part (and really looking forward to the day when actuators, engines, and gyros can be critted!) but I was just not sure of what the percent chance there is that ammo explodes once it has already been hit critically, and for that matter, how much damage it does once it does explode. I know in TT it was based off how much ammunition was left in the bin when it went off, but I haven't been able to do science on it in this game very reliably.

[Burke IV]

LRMs are weak enough as it is without fear of real ammo explosions.

Lyoto Machida, on 08 October 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

1) You guys are pretty funny with CASE. Seems like only suckers use CASE nowadays. I run ballistics (and LRMs occasionally) commonly and rarely die from ammo explosions. You'd have to get a crit to the ammo and then there's only a 1 in 10 chance of it cooking off.

2) I don't know why the ammo explosion effects were turned down but they should be put back to where they were in closed beta.

We had this chat in a game the other day and i was saying how i can only recall 2 times my ammo exploded and they were both in my first few weeks of play. Having said that perhaps i just havnt noticed. In previous MW games there was a "beepybeepybeep" type of warning that your ammo was going off.

[Enzane]

I remember, in closed beta, Loving this effect.

I had just built my first Catapult. I put in two LRM 10s (like an *****) and somewhere around 30 tons of Ammo.

First Match I got into, I forgot to add armor. So My torso just got crit in one shot. (I was running a standard Engine.)

All I heard for a good 10 seconds was the Popping of popcorn, as my mech seemed to jitter side to side.

This was the most awesome thing to happen! Feeling your missles explode in your side torso as they go off. And all of a sudden blowing up. I would seriously like to have this in the game.

[Dirus Nigh]

stjobe, on 02 October 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

Here's how I realize I've caused an ammo explosion: I fire at a 'mech, and a second or so later it unexpectedly dies.

No sound, no particle effects, no message, no nothing.

Although the no particle thing may well be because I'm running at medium graphics.

Same with me. I have never had a sound effect to indicate an ammo explosion. Whether it's the target or me having the ammo explosion. The effects look very similar to the ones used by destroying a location so I never saw visually. WIth one exception.

I have seen ammunition explosions occurs on the damage readout on my HUD. Locations would start blinking and turning red then going blank and they get destroyed. That is it. The only other evidence is when a mech dies one to three seconds after I shot it, with out being hit again. I assume its an ammo explosion.

[Artgathan]

These effects are no longer in the game. I have my graphics cranked up to max and there's no sound / VFX when an ammo explosion is triggered. Even if it happens inside of my mech there's nothing - I just randomly die a few seconds after being shot.

Perhaps the server is not transmitting the information correctly? That could explain why the in-house testers aren't having issues (if you guys are testing on a LAN... which I doubt, but still).