90 replies to this topic

[DemonRaziel]

Exhibit A:

MadCat02, on 30 September 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

I get 1000+ every third game .Sometimes close to 2000 with SRM builds. At this point it means i cripled or killed 5 mechs by myself so 1 player can make a huge difference in a game.

Exhibit B:

MadCat02, on 30 September 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

I know for a fact taht people troll with srm boats to get cash which result in more losses because its not a viable build .

I rest my case.

Edited by DemonRaziel, 01 October 2013 - 03:57 PM.

[Imperius]

I've gotten about 4-5 1000+dmg matches on my sniper Ilya out of the 80 matches I've played I average around 500 on most matches. I've killed a total of 7 people at the highest in all my games. I'm going to say this because I know it's true. MadCat you're not as good as you claim. I'm no noob, but I'm far from a pro. Honestly I don't think anybody will be considered a pro until the game gets balanced out better, DX11 is in, and the Clans are out. Then and only when the majority of the game is out we will see skilled pilots start to stand out from the heard. Also I've killed Atlases with 2 shots before, only netting me 30ish damage hitting him in the right eye. Missiles aren't skill, high damage with missiles isn't skill. Low damage and high kills is skill. That means you can aim that means you hit the right spots that need to be hit in order to take down a mech in the least amount of ammo possible. I always aim for the cockpits, because if I miss well that's 30 damage in the center torso. Of course low damage and high kills can mean you're good at stealing kills too, but you know if you stoke the kill or you made it happen.

[Deathlike]

I can only confirm that the new Steiner Scout Lance meta is working as intended.

[Joseph Mallan]

Deathlike, on 01 October 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

I can only confirm that the new Steiner Scout Lance meta is working as intended.

You are mistaken. That is a Dragoons Zeta Battalion scout lance.

Quote

AS7-D Atlas Danielle - Piloted by Wolf's Dragoons Captain Danielle Rondema, this modified Atlas carried three medium lasers in each arm, trading away the SRM rack to do so.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 02 October 2013 - 08:14 AM.

[Jez]

I've just about had it with match maker and ELO. In 4 out of the 6 games I played in tonight, the opposing team had at minimum 4 more assaults than my team and they weren't Victors...we're talking about Atlases, Highlanders, Stalkers. The worst game was when the opposing team had 3 Atlases, 1 Highlander, 1 Stalker, and 2 Victors while my team only had a single Stalker. Damn...I know tactics can over come odds and all, but that is a ridiculous.

I would have just blown it off as an outlier, but come on man! 4 out of 6 matches were imbalanced like that and that's just tonight. The last couple of weeks I have been on both sides of the imbalance and it just sucks the fun out of the game.

If this is symptomatic of the state of the game then MWO deserves the crappy reviews its getting....and no, getting a 5/10 is not average. It is a failing grade and a **** poor score. The reviewer is recommending to their readers not to invest too much money or time into it.

[Kaspirikay]

Jade Kitsune, on 30 September 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

You act as if there is actually weight balancing in the game.

There hasn't been weight balancing in this game since closed beta.

this

[TexAce]

problem is with people dropping 4-man in lights or assaults only.
They skew the matchmaker.
So if you happen to be over 100tons lighter than the other team, ask the 4-man light group why they are doing this.

I agree, matchmaker needs to take 24 people into the match, THEN distribute them evenly keeping 2-4 mans in tact.

in fact, I would not take 4 mans at all into the usual pug group, but put them in a seperate 4-man queue where they have to wait for another 5 groups. So groups play together and against each other, if someone is not dropping with 4 mechs but 3, one pugger has to fill in.

Edited by TexAss, 05 October 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[Adiuvo]

Splitting up the queues is only going to lengthen the time it takes to find a match.

I'm just about always waiting the max time already, even when solo dropping. Separating out the 4man queue, which I'm guessing are the most active players, would only lengthen that.

Matchmaker already tries to match up 4man with 4man anyways.

[Asakara]

TexAss, on 05 October 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

problem is with people dropping 4-man in lights or assaults only.
They skew the matchmaker.
So if you happen to be over 100tons lighter than the other team, ask the 4-man light group why they are doing this.

I agree, matchmaker needs to take 24 people into the match, THEN distribute them evenly keeping 2-4 mans in tact.

in fact, I would not take 4 mans at all into the usual pug group, but put them in a seperate 4-man queue where they have to wait for another 5 groups. So groups play together and against each other, if someone is not dropping with 4 mechs but 3, one pugger has to fill in.

Nobody in my group did this in any of those 59 matches.

Spoiler

Makeup Of My Group In Each Match:

3L 1H
2L 1H 1A
2L 1M 1H
2L 1M 1H
2L 1M 1H
2L 1M 1H
2L 1H
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
1M 1H 2A
1M 1H 2A
1M 1H 2A
1L 1M 2A
1L 1M 2A
1L 1M 2A
2L 2A
2L 2A
2L 2A
2L 2A
2L 2A
2L 2A
1M 3A
2M 2A
1M 3A
3A
3A
3A
1L 2A
1L 2A
1L 3A
1L 3A
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L

Edited by Asakara, 05 October 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[TexAce]

Asakara, on 05 October 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Nobody in my group did this in any of those 59 matches.

Spoiler

Makeup Of My Group In Each Match:

3L 1H
2L 1H 1A
2L 1M 1H
2L 1M 1H
2L 1M 1H
2L 1M 1H
2L 1H
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L 1H 1A
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
1M 1H 2A
1M 1H 2A
1M 1H 2A
1L 1M 2A
1L 1M 2A
1L 1M 2A
2L 2A
2L 2A
2L 2A
2L 2A
2L 2A
2L 2A
1M 3A
2M 2A
1M 3A
3A
3A
3A
1L 2A
1L 2A
1L 3A
1L 3A
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L
2L

I'm not talking about your group in particular, but I glimpsed over some of the screenshots and already saw a 4-man light group immediately.
There is also a screenshot on this page showing a group of 4 boars.

The fact ist, this is happening, and as long as 4mans are mixed with pugs, you can't really control the weight balancing that much if elo is also added to the equasion.

Edited by TexAss, 05 October 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[King Picollo]

I'd say tolerable and not tolerable are ok, you can just about make up for the extra weight with player skill.

Any more than that and it's a real struggle.

I play conquest though and weight balance makes less difference.

[Davers]

MadCat02, on 30 September 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

I get 1000+ every third game .Sometimes close to 2000 with SRM builds. At this point it means i cripled or killed 5 mechs by myself so 1 player can make a huge difference in a game .

Unfortunetly elo only takes win/loss ratio which is why its impossible to determine individual skills and therefor balance the game .

For lights 1.5 KDA is good for Assaults 2.5 or higher and this should be taken in cosideration

I have never seen a 2000 damage match. Closest would be about 1500 back pre-ECM with LRMs in closed Beta. You must be some kind of legendary mechwarrior. I can't decide whether to stand in awe of you or call you out for *********.

[Red squirrel]

I just love it when we own a team that is 100+ tons heavier then ours.
I do not think that there needs to be an Atlas for an Atlas or a light for a light.
Difference is the spice in the game.

Actually I never understood why PGI does not create a value to determine the strength of a mech
instead of using the tonnage. It seems to be just too damn hard to come up with something like this.
I suggest a system that is based on the equipped components and we could call it combat value
or maybe battle value sounds even cooler.

[Davers]

Red squirrel, on 06 October 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

I just love it when we own a team that is 100+ tons heavier then ours.
I do not think that there needs to be an Atlas for an Atlas or a light for a light.
Difference is the spice in the game.

Actually I never understood why PGI does not create a value to determine the strength of a mech
instead of using the tonnage. It seems to be just too damn hard to come up with something like this.
I suggest a system that is based on the equipped components and we could call it combat value
or maybe battle value sounds even cooler.

Too difficult. Too many factors. BV works when you can calculate the value of a weapon with static modifiers. Every mechwarrior in TT is equally skilled with every weapon system. But when every pilot has different levels of skill with each weapon...what would you base those numbers on?

[Red squirrel]

Davers, on 06 October 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Too difficult. Too many factors. BV works when you can calculate the value of a weapon with static modifiers. Every mechwarrior in TT is equally skilled with every weapon system. But when every pilot has different levels of skill with each weapon...what would you base those numbers on?

Mhh and how exactly does the current tonnage system reflect that?
That is what ELO is for. Now the question is how to match players in a certain ELO bracket.

[Davers]

Red squirrel, on 06 October 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Mhh and how exactly does the current tonnage system reflect that?

Red squirrel, on 06 October 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

That is what ELO is for.

Asked and answered.

I really am not sure why they didn't do the 'Elo bracket' thing in the first place. It would have kept the new players together, and the better players together instead of mixing them on the same teams.

[Roadkill]

MadCat02, on 30 September 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

I get 1000+ every third game .Sometimes close to 2000 with SRM builds.

Troll poster is trolling.

I managed 2000+ damage a handful of times using a dedicated LRM boat during the 3 days that LRMs were godlike, but I've never seen anyone come anywhere near that much damage at any other time.

These days, 1000+ damage is rare enough that it stands out. I see it maybe once or twice a night, and people usually comment about it being abnormal when it happens. The top players on each team are typically in the 500-700 range, sometimes 800-ish.

That said, I'm not seeing the tonnage difference that the OP is seeing. Most of my games lately have been pretty good. There have been a lot of games that end 12-10 or 12-9. Sure there are still the occasional 12-2 blowouts, but I generally chalk those up to having won a couple of games in a row and getting bumped up into a Elo bracket that I don't belong in. (Or the opposite, too, about equally as often.) After the pasting it's usually back to good matches for a while.

[IceLom]

Tonnage difference is not the be all end all... A light mech can do a hell of allot more damage and be shot at a hell of a lot more then an assault.

A player in an assault mech is not necessarily going to do better for his team then a player in a light mech... People should care less about balancing by tonnage and more about balancing by actual player skill and preformance.



In the above example we were 35 tons lighter then the enemy team, and one of our ravens on my lance dropped as the game started so down another 35 (and a player) so 70tons... or a heavy mech.

Did we win? yes was it a close game? yes..... did the big 100ton assault mechs do most of the damage? no not at all.

Take home, if you balance drops purely on tonnage you are going to have stupidly huge imbalances. All mechs have the ability to do allot of damage and help there team allot regardless of tonnage. Personally I am far better in my Jenner then my jagermechs.... I feel that on average I provide more benefit in 35tons then i do in 65tons.... Please balance me against an equally productive player not one of the same tonnage or guess what? steam rolls are going to happen.

I am all for weight limits on drops to force games to not be all assault warrior... but until then games should not be balanced by tonnage because without a weight limit you will have an even more broken matchmaker.Put in a weight limit and then balance by skill under that system.

(on a side note to the above screen shot... I can also have total **** games the one right before this one I ran into an enemy group did 40 damage and died horribly.... again tonnage is not everything, a stupid decision by me made me die horribly and adversely effected the team...)

[Ghogiel]

closer weight matching might be nice.

Played in this one earlier lol (10 assaults vs 2)

[Nryrony]

All of this wouldn't be a problem if it was properly balance.

If all mechs had the same potential, weight wouldn't matter.