139 replies to this topic

[PEEFsmash]

EDIT: I should mention, I think seismic is gamebreaking, and I wish it wasn't part of the game. I am not arguing that Seismic should stay the way it was, but it certainly should not exist as an option only available to heavies and assaults.

In the Command Chair post, apparently they want to make Seismic non-functional while the user is moving. Was any consideration paid to the way this would affect weight balance?

Currently, the ONLY mechs who stand still for any significant period of time are Heavy/Assault mechs. This means that Heavy/Assault mechs will be the only mechs that could really consider taking this module anymore.

Lights die instantly when they stop moving, movement is their "armor"; they are more difficult to hit via fast, tricky movement, so standing still to "get a look-see at what's going on" is completely out of the question for them.

Mediums, if they have any sliver of an advantage whatsoever in any cases, have a speed advantage over heavies and assaults, and they use this by moving very quickly, never stopping during brawls. This means that they can't afford to survey the situation while not moving.

Meanwhile, poptart Assaults and ridgehumping assaults actually stop moving for at least short periods of time every time they peek or pop.

Let's add to this fact that you also don't show up on seismic when not moving, which means you actually cloak yourself from seismic when you aren't moving, and not moving gives you the opportunity to see those who are moving....the designers have actually, in the most incredible way, buffed standing still. Yes, that's right. You are now multiply advantaged by standing still. Now, again, what are the only mechs that can get away with standing still, and actually have standing still for at least short periods of time integrated into their modus operandi? Poptarting and ridgehumping Heavies and Assaults are the only ones, which just so happen to already be the best mechs in the game.

In a game already DOMINATED (and I do mean absolutely dominated in the strongest sense) by heavies and assaults, why would we buff "standing still", which results in a buff only to Heavies and Assaults?

Let me put my tinfoil cap on for just a moment, and remind you all of the fact that this game has essentially only built content for heavy and assault mechs for the last 5 months. The developers have been pumping out heavy chassis after heavy chassis and assault chassis after assault chassis, mixing in the occasional medium. However, there has not been a new Light Chassis in 8.5 months, there has not been a light hero mech in 5+ months (there is only one, and it is bad) but there are now 10 Assault and Heavy Hero mechs, and we have gotten Heavy and Assault Chassis almost exclusively during the last 8.5 months...Have the developers actually decided that they WANT this game to be Assaultwarrior online because Assault/heavy mechs are more expensive, have a longer grind time, etc? Are these changes meant not to balance the game, but to push light and medium pilots like myself towards the heavier mechs so we can become more lucrative customers?? *tinfoil cap off*

What are your thoughts? Was "standing still" too weak and in need of a buff?

Edited by PEEFsmash, 30 September 2013 - 02:18 PM.

[L Y N X]

It is a feature. Learn to accept it. There are other modules to use.

[Artgathan]

As you've put it, Seismic will be useless for Recon mechs if the proposed changes are implemented. However, in the defense of PGI this has been a feature that elements of the player base have been clamoring for ever since Seismic Sensor's inception.

I'd prefer to see a feature where the range of the radar is based on your mech's weight (Assaults can be detected from the furthest away, Lights can sneak up closer).

[PEEFsmash]

Artgathan, on 30 September 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

As you've put it, Seismic will be useless for Recon mechs if the proposed changes are implemented. However, in the defense of PGI this has been a feature that elements of the player base have been clamoring for ever since Seismic Sensor's inception.

I'd prefer to see a feature where the range of the radar is based on your mech's weight (Assaults can be detected from the furthest away, Lights can sneak up closer).

Yes, if they wanted to add any element of realism, then detection range should be weight-based. 35 tonners detectable 35/100ths of the distance that Atlases could be picked up. The fact that a Commando creeping along at 10 kph can be detected at 250 meters, but an Atlas STOMPING ALONG 55kph at 255 meter distance is completely undetectable...?

To buff "standing still" which is a heavy and assault only maneuver...it makes me think that this whole thing is happening on purpose.

[Screech]

Would be better if they just removed it altogether.

[Vulix]

The nerf to register weapon firing\weapons hitting terrain as seismic events is too big of a nerf. It's an expensive module, why is it becoming so useless?

[keith]

face it pgi balances stuff for bottom teir ppl. wahhh its too good, i can't look down and see red dots and shot at same time, so it got nerfed. on to next OP thing. worst devs in a long time want ip in new hands.

[DocBach]

my solution:

http://mwomercs.com/...29#entry2435429

Make Beagle Active Probe function similarly to the old seismic sensors that can work while moving, but is blockable by ECM.

[dario03]

This is about the exact opposite of what we need. We need tonnage based detection to buff the lights and mediums not this to buff heavies and assaults. Heck since mediums need the most buffs I would maybe just do 2 or 3 classes of range detection and have mediums be detected at the same range as lights.

7ynx, on 30 September 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

It is a feature. Learn to accept it. There are other modules to use.

What exactly is the point of that post? We could pretty much post that in any game play balance thread so if we just accepted every feature what would be the point of this section?

[Ryokens leap]

PGI didn't want a 360 degree, active/passive radar system in MWO so the seismic module is a good alternative and should remain in game as it now stands.

[Corvus Antaka]

makes this a lot less must have finally. it'll still be handy. sensor is still to must have right now really.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 30 September 2013 - 02:16 PM.

[xCico]

While I throw out 24 mil cbills for seismic alltogether, still happy with this change :DDDD

[PEEFsmash]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 30 September 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

makes this a lot less must have finally. it'll still be handy. sensor is still to must have right now really.

It makes it a "lot less must have" which is good, but the problem is that it is still very usable...just by assaults/heavies only. That is the bad part. Again, for the millionth time, heavies and assaults get an option that mediums and lights don't.

[Asakara]

I do not support this proposed change.

[GODzillaGSPB]

How is this a light-nerf? It's a general nerf. Now people can run into ambushes again, which was more or less not possible with seismic attached. Lights can sneak up on heavier mechs again. With 3rd person and seismic, light-scouting was pretty much dead and burried. Now there is a chance it might become meaningful again.

[Corvus Antaka]

PEEFsmash, on 30 September 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

It makes it a "lot less must have" which is good, but the problem is that it is still very usable...just by assaults/heavies only. That is the bad part. Again, for the millionth time, heavies and assaults get an option that mediums and lights don't.

I know. It's a good thing.

no one can afford to just stand still except a pop-tart. assuming the sensor doesn't work when turning or jumping that means it'll help assaults only slightly. it'll also allow for weapons fire to "Fake" signatures.

Lights shouldn't need the sensor anyhow. We never had it or needed it in Closed beta either. I'm glad this wet blanket is being taken away frankly, everyone uses it much to much right now and it's just too easy to know & find the enemy in close.

Of more concern is that with this change running into 2-3+ ECM covered mechs again becomes a highlight of how ECM and it's absolute stealth may be a bigger issue.

Visuals will return with this change, and easymode is being taken away.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 30 September 2013 - 02:22 PM.

[DocBach]

GODzillaGSPB, on 30 September 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

How is this a light-nerf? It's a general nerf. Now people can run into ambushes again, which was more or less not possible with seismic attached. Lights can sneak up on heavier mechs again. With 3rd person and seismic, light-scouting was pretty much dead and burried. Now there is a chance it might become meaningful again.

Pretty much, lights can get to known chokes points and key avenues of approaches faster than the assault movements, stay still behind defilaide and still provide information on movement through them.

[Krivvan]

GODzillaGSPB, on 30 September 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

How is this a light-nerf? It's a general nerf. Now people can run into ambushes again, which was more or less not possible with seismic attached. Lights can sneak up on heavier mechs again. With 3rd person and seismic, light-scouting was pretty much dead and burried. Now there is a chance it might become meaningful again.

The seismic doesn't stop detection of lights sneaking up on a heavier mech...

I'd be absolutely happy with it if it accompanied detection distances changes based on weight.

In which case I'll have a free module slot to use something else in.

Edited by Krivvan, 30 September 2013 - 02:22 PM.

[PEEFsmash]

GODzillaGSPB, on 30 September 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

How is this a light-nerf? It's a general nerf. Now people can run into ambushes again, which was more or less not possible with seismic attached. Lights can sneak up on heavier mechs again. With 3rd person and seismic, light-scouting was pretty much dead and burried. Now there is a chance it might become meaningful again.

I agree seismic is terrible and should never have been in the game, and maybe this nerf will make Seismic disappear altogether which would be great.

However, this is just another "heavy/assault only" kind of feature, and that's what I don't like. You can still see exactly where a light is going if just one person on your heavy/assault blob isn't moving.

[Kitane]

Is it just me or did PGI just buffed their wonder-bs ECM even further?



Seismic is a horrible nerf for PUG play, it's often the last warning that can save one's hide in absence of proper communication with teammates. And I personally can drop it completely, because deadzone issues prevent my mech standing still 99% of the time

Edited by Kitane, 30 September 2013 - 02:24 PM.