139 replies to this topic

[Dashwood Fox]

This was actually the nerf I had suggested from the start. It doesn't make sense that you'd get readings while you're moving. If I could I would add that it shouldn't work while you're firing either. That would make it easier to sneak up on LRM boats at least. I would also add a greater delay between 'pings' so theoretically Lights would have a better chance sneaking-up on stationary Heavies and Assaults because of that larger window between readings.

So I'd say I am for this nerf but I also acknowledge your point that it will effect lights and mediums a little more than the other classes. I should also note that I do pilot Lights and Mediums more than any other class too.

[Dodger79]

In my opinion the seismic sensor shouldn't have made it into the game at all. It is some kind of legit wallhack that simply should not be in a game like this. But because it is such a mighty device it is kind of mandatory to spend a lot of ingame money to buy this thing. And now it will get useless for everyone acutally moving around, only benefitting "campers", making this a waste of money for everyone who bought it for his scout etc.

So, pls PGI, just remove this module from the game and refund the CB spent for it.

[ShinVector]

Honestly my opinion at this point is that any new additional nerf to seismic is GOOD !!
Hopefully it gets nerfed more and more until they finally remove this stupid module that single handedly destroyed the 'sneaking around' tactics in this game.

Well at least for light pilots.. It is going to force us to use line of sight more and, in all. I think that is a good thing too.
As for the light mech vs assault mech meta... At least they will no longer know where you 100% of the time when it is a 1v1.

Once it become a close range fight hopefully with no wall to backup into, the constant movement will render seismic useless for both mechs.

Meanwhile who here has already thought of having fun with their spare AC2 ammo ? LOL...

Lastly: Get rid or seismic PGI and refund everyone their cbills. Less trouble than trying to balance it !

Edited by ShinVector, 07 October 2013 - 06:54 PM.

[Sug]

Make it show enemy and friendly mechs, with no way to discern the difference between the two, and only when you're standing still, and it's balanced.

[Toong]

Seismic's a tool to help detect 'mechs sneaking up on you. I'd make the argument that it was a toy with fire support 'mechs in mind to begin with. It was not meant to be the ultimate module for brawling. I support the changes.

[Shakespeare]

Sug, on 07 October 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Make it show enemy and friendly mechs, with no way to discern the difference between the two, and only when you're standing still, and it's balanced.

So, you want seismic to disable radar?

[Gauvan]

A core principle of good game design, for me, is giving folks interesting decisions and forcing them to choose between equally attractive options. Some things in MWO do this well, such as the heat mechanic. But I'd argue that there are some areas where MWO does a really poor job in this aspect of game design.

One example would be DHS. There is no equally valid alternative to adding DHS's--I've seen them described as 2M tax on mechs and I thought that was a pretty good assessment.

Some of the modules are troublesome in the same way DHS's are. When you can afford them, you really need to buy them to stay competitive. There isn't a matchmaking mechanic that factors in equipment value so two equally skilled teams can be unbalanced by the presence or absence of modules. I guess the line for me is when a module does something for free that other players can't do to some degree--in the case of seismic the ability to detect mechs though walls. Couple that with a lack of other equally valid competing choices and you have a bad design element.

Best, I think, to take it out and refund the GXP and C-bills.

[Dirus Nigh]

In order to get seismic readings the sensor need to have contact with the ground, it really needs to penetrate the ground. Because of this, the sensors would be placed in the mech's feet.

Can the OP please explain to me, logically how a seismic sensor would be able to give accurate seismic readings when its being repeatedly pounded against the ground?

I'm sure geologists every were would love to see the answer.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 09 October 2013 - 06:03 AM.

[AdamBaines]

I all for it. I mean really, if your moving, which is causing seismic activity, how can you detect other seismic activity? Maybe they could reduce the range significantly when moving, but really....how would that really work? Its like asking and earthquake monitor to monitor for earth quakes while on a car that is moving across rough terrain with poor shock absorbers. If an earth quake happens, you wont be able to tell through all the other noise that is being created by the machine your traveling on.

[Pepito Sbazzeguti]

Dirus Nigh, on 09 October 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

In order to get seismic readings the sensor need to have contact with the ground, it really needs to penetrate the ground. Because of this, the sensors would be placed in the mech's feet.

Can the OP please explain to me, logically how a seismic sensor would be able to give accurate seismic readings when its being repeatedly pounded against the ground?

I'm sure geologists every were would love to see the answer.

If you would some kind of realism in game maybe can you explain why now if you Jump and you use JJ in the middle of air for correct your direction your mech going straight? Try to do this in 3° PV, there's something hilarious in that but there's not realism so why Siesmic have to be "realistic" insthead?

Can you give me a reason why i have to spend 6.000.000 mc and 12.500 gpx for something that reveal at 250 m an enemy coming IF and only IF i'm standing like a tree?

Don't say for an ambush, i wanna tell you a secret... you can hear enemy arrive, "Tump Tump Tump" whit no ally signal in radar, that's mean enemy approaching, can you not establish direction? well... if you hear JJ an enemy coming from an obstacle, otherwise he coming from some way that you can see, and there's more, you can establish number of enemy and their dimension with a little practice "Tu-Tump Tu-Tump" or Tu-Tu-Tump" or "Tump (2secs) Tump (2secs)" oh well you can detect T-rex too.

Why i have to spend resource for something i can hear from myself until Stomp noises are not considered OP? with no risk of be mistaken from a salvo shoot in the ground...

In my opinion with these changes siesmic is useless, so you can remove it directly without pass from the recycle bin...

Sorry for my very bad english, hope you understand my thought... bad english teacher, and very bad student too.

[AdamBaines]

Pepito Sbazzeguti, on 09 October 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

If you would some kind of realism in game maybe can you explain why now if you Jump and you use JJ in the middle of air for correct your direction your mech going straight? Try to do this in 3° PV, there's something hilarious in that but there's not realism so why Siesmic have to be "realistic" insthead?

This is a great point. Almost everything in the game is not "Real" world. A lot of it comes down to game play, and how a certain mechanic effects it. Sometimes real world mechanics make a game crappy. So they change them (for good or bad, can anyone say "Ghost Heat"?). But you also like to have some sort of real world feel for a game that is based in real world physics and etc. Sometime, for me its about gut feel. Some things I'm ok with going outside of "reality". PPCs: Really, how could they look and feel? They are not something we can base off of reality so the developers take a shot at how its works. All of the different incarnations have taken different approaches to how PPCS work.

With Seismic, my gut feeling is that, it should have some basis in reality. Maybe fudge it a LITTLE bit to make it more effective, but really, the mechanic is one thing in this game that is based in reality, so it should be more real then not.

Like I said, maybethe solution is that it will work when stopped OR at slow speeds, but not when sprinting. Maybe when moving it will decrease the range it can sense. Maybe when moving it could give false positives? Not that would make it interesting.

[Felio]

If they do this, lights and mediums should be invisible to seismic.

[Almond Brown]

PEEFsmash, on 30 September 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

stuff

To buff "standing still" which is a heavy and assault only maneuver...it makes me think that this whole thing is happening on purpose.

Tin Foil Hat alert! Tin Foil Hat alert!

Standing still, out in the open, is bad for ALL weight classes. Why do you presume that a Scout/Light would have to stop out in the open to use Seismic? If that is not your presumption, then standing still under cover is not a nerf. You still get to see what is moving around you.

Edited by Almond Brown, 10 October 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Durant Carlyle]

No Seismic readings while moving makes it practically useless for me, as I spend 95% of every match moving. All of my lights (in other words, all but one of my 'Mechs) will have an extra module slot to fill. Thanks PGI!

"Realistically" (as much as the term can be applied to this game), the Seismic software would be tuned to ignore the stomping of the 'Mech it's installed in. There should be a penalty to Seismic when moving (subtract 25% range or something), but it should still be usable.

[Almond Brown]

I would agree with a range increase be added with this change. That way the Lights can move to a static location and report back the seismic activity of a larger area. That would be more realistic.

P.S. Even a Pug group could share info, given a large enough scanned area.

Edited by Almond Brown, 10 October 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[Chaldon]

7 Pages. Mostly Overlords.

I DUG the seismic and I want my cbills & GXP back.

[Chaldon]

Dirus Nigh, on 09 October 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

Can the OP please explain to me, logically how a seismic sensor would be able to give accurate seismic readings when its being repeatedly pounded against the ground?
I'm sure geologists every were would love to see the answer.

It's called Echolocation...probably. Your stomping feet find other stomping feet by bouncing tremors back at each other. The sensor is the gadget that deciphers this and adds it to your radar screen. Its rather technical and I understand it about as well as the alien tracker Ellen Ripley uses.

[ShinVector]

Almond Brown, on 10 October 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Tin Foil Hat alert! Tin Foil Hat alert!

Standing still, out in the open, is bad for ALL weight classes. Why do you presume that a Scout/Light would have to stop out in the open to use Seismic? If that is not your presumption, then standing still under cover is not a nerf. You still get to see what is moving around you.

This is until you get smashed by an AC40 Jager at a choke point around a corner.
He see you because of Seismic and he only need to stand still to use it.

It is a valid concern but let's see how it plays out over time.

[Dirus Nigh]

Will some one please explain how a devise that detects seismic activity can function when being repeatedly slammed into the ground by a 20-100 ton machine?

The requirement to stand still is not game braking, does not ruin lights, and does not make the module useless.

It is a much needed, and logical change.

I always stop behind hills and small buildings to type out messages in chat, or observe avenues of approach in my light mech. You do not need to be constantly moving in order to scout. Get a visual, hide behind a hill, communicate the contact, then move on. Simple.

Light mechs have a great advantage of getting to places quickly. Such as common avenues of approach, that can be turned into ambush sights. Get the scout mech to the location, hide in cover. Watch for seismic activity. Communicate the contact, then help set up the ambush. Move if needed.

People are flaming others that they needt o L2P, and that PGI fixed the module because of low skill noobs.

Please explain how the use of a module that constantly shows all enemy positions in relation to you, essentially a wall hack, proves that you are a skilled player?

Would not a truly skilled player be able to predict enemy movements based on their observed behavior? Would not a skilled player be able to maintain situational awareness with out the need for a wall hack?

Honestly if it were up to me not only would the module require you you to stand still, it would also pick up the movement of both friendly and enemy mechs, drilling platforms, ground tremors from the environment (caustic valley, terra therma), and weapon impacts on near by terrain.

[travelbug]

i generally agree with the op that if you are going to change things about a certain game mechanic, its net effect should be equivalent in all weight classes. this is not (necessarily) the case with the magscan nerf, since the inherent (always moving) nature of lights renders it almost useless for them.

however, one of the lights greatest ability is its ambush attack. sure they cannot ambush stationary enemies who are defending hillcrests, corners, etc. but they can more effectively ambush and disrupt enemies who are already actively, or semi-actively engaged with the lights' teammates.

so imho it is a direct nerf to scouting and blitzkrieg ambushes but its an indirect buff to disruption and a 'coordinated', combined arms style ambush. all in all, i think thats not such a bad deal for a lance of lights as it is for a lance of mediums.

Edited by travelbug, 06 November 2013 - 04:02 PM.