575 replies to this topic

[Kunae]

Blacksoul1987, on 03 October 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

I use the ssrms on the victor simply cause hitting light mechs reliably with regular srms is tricky and 2 medlas in left arm isn't really enough so 3ssrms seemed like the best bet for me to keep on trucking if I happen to lose my right arm

With the broken state of HSR for SRMs, it's actually more effective to run SSRMs in many builds. Not purely for attacking lights, but just because the damage will actually register on all mechs, even if it's spread.

[Blacksoul1987]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

See, the problem with this line of thinking, is that it forces light-users into the exploitable builds that caused the problem in the first place. When you buff streaks to compensate for the broken hit-boxes/HSR on spiders, it makes it much worse on lights that don't have that "feature", who are already able to be hit by lasers and ballistics with little difficulty.

It punishes the non-broken mechs for PGI's not yet addressing the problem of 1 or 2 mech chassis.

this is supposed to be sort of a combined arms type of game if there is a kintaro there that means you need to go somewhere else your fatties on your team should take care of the kintaro and quite honestly you simply don't always get what you want. How happy do you think I was when I ran 2ppc ac10 on my victor and some light would come hump my leg after I was out of ac10 ammo and ppc do no damage below 90m, that alone caused me to switch to 1erppc 2 medpulse and a gauss much less powerful but I can combat leg humpers better now. I see light mechs starting to carry AMS now and in my victor with the streaks I noticed if 2 lights running together have it almost none of the missles make it through at least it seems.

[Kunae]

Blacksoul1987, on 03 October 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

this is supposed to be sort of a combined arms type of game if there is a kintaro there that means you need to go somewhere else your fatties on your team should take care of the kintaro and quite honestly you simply don't always get what you want. How happy do you think I was when I ran 2ppc ac10 on my victor and some light would come hump my leg after I was out of ac10 ammo and ppc do no damage below 90m, that alone caused me to switch to 1erppc 2 medpulse and a gauss much less powerful but I can combat leg humpers better now. I see light mechs starting to carry AMS now and in my victor with the streaks I noticed if 2 lights running together have it almost none of the missles make it through at least it seems.

So, by that line of reasoning, if a lone atlas sees a lone Jenner, they should just run away?

AMS is 1.5t, including ammo. 1.5t on a light mech is a very big deal.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

See, the problem with this line of thinking, is that it forces light-users into the exploitable builds that caused the problem in the first place. When you buff streaks to compensate for the broken hit-boxes/HSR on spiders, it makes it much worse on lights that don't have that "feature", who are already able to be hit by lasers and ballistics with little difficulty.

It punishes the non-broken mechs for PGI's not yet addressing the problem of 1 or 2 mech chassis.

But isn't this like saying that putting more Medium lasers on a Mech cause Atlases carry the most armor ruins the game for other Mechs? The problem isn't a couple streaks, its lots of streaks. I don't see a single player posting a build with less than 4 SSRMs. And those that do I don't see complaints about.

[Rushin Roulette]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

PGI should not be buffing something to counter a broken mech, which hurts many many other mechs in the process... as I said earlier.

So you are saying that PGI should not nerf the SSRMs which are fine on just about every mech to fix the broken Kintaro... OK

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 03 October 2013 - 06:45 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

What about this Kentaro?

[Ngamok]

TexAss, on 02 October 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Dude just get over it, you found the sciccors to your paper(-thin armor). I start to feel sorry for you lol.

and again no, the 5SSRM2 Kintaro is definately not OP.

Killed one yesterday on the new map. Saw his shoulder was weak armor so with my LRM boat Orion, I pumped my 2xML and 2xMG into that shoulder till he died, XL engine.

[Kunae]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 October 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

But isn't this like saying that putting more Medium lasers on a Mech cause Atlases carry the most armor ruins the game for other Mechs? The problem isn't a couple streaks, its lots of streaks. I don't see a single player posting a build with less than 4 SSRMs. And those that do I don't see complaints about.

As with PPC's, it wasn't the boating that was the problem, that was just a symptom. Thus "ghost heat" didn't really address the problem, and just added complications. The real problem with PPC was that they had lowered the heat on them, primarily, amid other beneficial changes. They could remove "ghost heat", now that they've put PPC heat back where it should be, and you'd rarely ever see anyone boating them, as they're just too hot.

SSRMs are in a similar position. You see the boating as a problem, and I say it's just a symptom of the real problem. The real problem is that SSRMs are an auto-hit weapon. This, combined with the "out of the blue" damage boost they were given, makes them attractive to some people to boat.

I am not sure what could be done to SSRMs to make them actually balanced, under the current mechanic. Reducing the damage tends to make them useless, in most people's eyes, so that isn't really an option. It's my belief that until they can rework SSRM's mechanic into something that isn't exploitable, vs any mech, they should just remove them from the game. They can bring them back when they've found a balanced solution.

[Ngamok]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

And we will thank you for it.

Killed one of your offenders yesterday, see above.

[Kunae]

Rushin Roulette, on 03 October 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

So you are saying that PGI should not nerf the SSRMs which are fine on just about every mech to fix the broken Kintaro... OK

No, I am saying that Kintaro's are the extreme example. They are broken by themselves, it's just most evident on a mech that can carry 5 SSRM2's and 2 energy weapons, that moves 116kph.

Joseph Mallan, on 03 October 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

What about this Kentaro?

What about it?

It looks really dangerous... assuming HSR for SRMs works.

[Fut]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

So, by that line of reasoning, if a lone atlas sees a lone Jenner, they should just run away?

AMS is 1.5t, including ammo. 1.5t on a light mech is a very big deal.

Ummm.. Yeah, kind of.
If it's a true 1vs1 situation, and neither of those Mechs has back-up coming, the Jenner should be able to take the Atlas out. Might take awhile, but high mobility and high speed against a slow moving target is no contest.

[Blacksoul1987]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

So, by that line of reasoning, if a lone atlas sees a lone Jenner, they should just run away?

AMS is 1.5t, including ammo. 1.5t on a light mech is a very big deal.

that seems rather condescending...... suggesting that a light mech run from a mech that is typically loaded out to crush light mechs is in no way similar to telling an atlas to run from a jenner....... however if I was in a jenner I would run from the atlas after taking a pot shot and maybe attempt a different angle. I understand that you may not agree with my logic and that's fine but don't try and distort my words to make me seem incompetent. and yes I do know that 1.5t is a lot on a light mech I am working on mastering my jenners currently but it is an option and it will help sometimes you have to make compromises if you want to solo it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

No, I am saying that Kintaro's are the extreme example. They are broken by themselves, it's just most evident on a mech that can carry 5 SSRM2's and 2 energy weapons, that moves 116kph.


What about it?

It looks really dangerous... assuming HSR for SRMs works.

Is that it? Just really dangerous? Three times the SRM fire as a Streak boat... where's the complaints that its OP?

[Kunae]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 October 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Is that it? Just really dangerous? Three times the SRM fire as a Streak boat... where's the complaints that its OP?

You actually have to aim your SRMs. A streak boat doesn't.

[Blacksoul1987]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

As with PPC's, it wasn't the boating that was the problem, that was just a symptom. Thus "ghost heat" didn't really address the problem, and just added complications. The real problem with PPC was that they had lowered the heat on them, primarily, amid other beneficial changes. They could remove "ghost heat", now that they've put PPC heat back where it should be, and you'd rarely ever see anyone boating them, as they're just too hot.

SSRMs are in a similar position. You see the boating as a problem, and I say it's just a symptom of the real problem. The real problem is that SSRMs are an auto-hit weapon. This, combined with the "out of the blue" damage boost they were given, makes them attractive to some people to boat.

I am not sure what could be done to SSRMs to make them actually balanced, under the current mechanic. Reducing the damage tends to make them useless, in most people's eyes, so that isn't really an option. It's my belief that until they can rework SSRM's mechanic into something that isn't exploitable, vs any mech, they should just remove them from the game. They can bring them back when they've found a balanced solution.

I don't really agree with that without ghost heat I would boat ppc's they only upped the heat by 1 pt 4ppc's at current heat would be significantly cooler than most of the builds I ran in MW4 ghost heat is only reason why I don't do that.

[Kunae]

Fut, on 03 October 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Ummm.. Yeah, kind of.
If it's a true 1vs1 situation, and neither of those Mechs has back-up coming, the Jenner should be able to take the Atlas out. Might take awhile, but high mobility and high speed against a slow moving target is no contest.

The atlas really only has to hit the light solid, once.

Again it comes down to skill. An atlas that has the skill to hit a fast moving target, vs a light that has the skill to precisely place his shots while using his speed and agility to avoid getting hit too solidly. It should be a toss-up.

[Kunae]

Blacksoul1987, on 03 October 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

I don't really agree with that without ghost heat I would boat ppc's they only upped the heat by 1 pt 4ppc's at current heat would be significantly cooler than most of the builds I ran in MW4 ghost heat is only reason why I don't do that.

4 standard ppcs aren't really an issue, currently, even without "ghost heat". Get within 90m of them and they are toast. Add 2+ ER's in that mix and you're running really really hot.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

You actually have to aim your SRMs. A streak boat doesn't.

Actually I just have to be close. With 24 SRM missiles, some if not most will hit. Been doing that with 3 SRM6 on my D-DC for the better part of a year now.

[Kunae]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 October 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

Actually I just have to be close. With 24 SRM missiles, some if not most will hit. Been doing that with 3 SRM6 on my D-DC for the better part of a year now.

Still have to shoot at them, right? You shooting your SRMs when your reticule is above their left shoulder isn't going to be very effective, is it?

Edited by Kunae, 03 October 2013 - 07:14 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Still have to shoot at them, right? You shooting your SRMs when your reticule is above their left shoulder isn't going to be very effective, is it?

Depends which way the Juke.