575 replies to this topic

[Doomstryke]

I skipped to the end after the second page but what about lowering the turning radius on the streaks a tad and forcing the first 5 meters to be in a straight line. I think just nerfing the firing directly to your left or right or hell behind u would be enough.

decrease turn radius would help vs light and not change anything vs mediums and higher.

though in the end streaks are only a problem to lights if your running the 6 small pulse build since they have more range.

Run mediums and stay 300 m ahead using jump jets to run turn shoot and continue

[Wispsy]

Doomstryke, on 03 October 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

I skipped to the end after the second page but what about lowering the turning radius on the streaks a tad and forcing the first 5 meters to be in a straight line. I think just nerfing the firing directly to your left or right or hell behind u would be enough.

decrease turn radius would help vs light and not change anything vs mediums and higher.

though in the end streaks are only a problem to lights if your running the 6 small pulse build since they have more range.

Run mediums and stay 300 m ahead using jump jets to run turn shoot and continue

OK but putting aside from the fact that maps are full of objects that block your los and your kiting, what do you do when they can run as fast as you?

[Fut]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

I have never once died to a lone light mech whilst piloting an assault.
I have died to many lone assault mechs in my lights when despite all my most cunning efforts and well placed hard fought alphas and ridiculously well timed dodges, they get that one shot that blows my leg off or torso out and it is over...

Right now, in this game, a single assault will crush a light of equal skill. They may prolong it, but assaults can torso twist as well, and with the speed reductions, they can easily turn fast enough to keep you in their arc, especially if they have jumpjets and/or arm mounted weapons.

Some people are exceedingly accurate. If you do not preemptively dodge their shot (hsr yay now you have to dodge before they shoot so it dodges on their screen not yours) then it will kill you and they will not miss just because you are "small" (I mean people can reliably headshot the majority of their kills in almost any fps and that is a far tinier target then the massive ct of a Jenner who has managed to get in range to do damage with his weapons on you...).

in 1v1 situations right now assault > light every single time given equal skill.

Well yeah, if you just try to Circle-o-Death the Atlas, you're going to have a bad time.

[Wispsy]

Fut, on 03 October 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Well yeah, if you just try to Circle-o-Death the Atlas, you're going to have a bad time.

You are right, I have no real experience in this matter and literally just run up to assaults and circle strafe them. Putting aside the fact that a large number of assaults now have jumpjets making it literally impossible to stay behind them, any assault with a sensible engine can turn on you if they have any idea how to move their mech properly...

All they need is one shot, you need many, especially if they torso twist as you fire therefore stopping the majority of the damage going anywhere useful for the light. Let us not even mention that they can just sit at a wall or go stand on your base giving you no options to hide behind walls trying to poke them indefinitely and hoping they are slow to react.

[FrDrake]

Fut, on 03 October 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Well yeah, if you just try to Circle-o-Death the Atlas, you're going to have a bad time.

Try staying behind a good pilot some time, they know to twist opposite of your path, you know they are going to, so you stop behind them and start backpedaling, but a good one already knows what you're doing and circles backwards one way while whipping their torso around the other way. The problem is now the light player has stopped and is backpedaling at half speed, and they have a choice (given no terrain) go half speed across the assault's field of view, or ramp back up to full speed and get back behind the assault again, giving the assault a brief second where the light is mostly stationary while it goes from reverse to forward.

A good assault turns the light into scrap at this point while a mediocre/bad one glances some shots off the light.

The whole time while doing this the light has to keep fire on one (maybe 2) armor sections to hope to penetrate. A light will have to perform this probably 5 or 6 times to hope to have a chance at killing, but the assault just needs one clear shot.

*Edit* The light can choose not to try and stay behind the assault and instead head full speed into cover, but you can only do that so many times before you end up popping out and they are looking at you.

Edited by FrDrake, 03 October 2013 - 09:28 AM.

[Ngamok]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

I've been tempted, at times, to make an alt acct just to prove this. I wouldn't doubt that there are some skilled players out there, who've done exactly that, just to "pwn noobs" in a light.

I do have an alt account I made to run with my buddy when he wanted to try this out a few ago. It's name spelled backwards (Komagn). And I saw all manner of bad when I was starting off. I was using the Champion A1 and the Stalker during most of those first 25 matches (made just over 10.1 million C-Bills during cadet bonus time). Bought an Awesome with it. Guess those people can't hit my CT as easily either. Don't get me wrong, there were some good pilots as well.

[Doomstryke]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

OK but putting aside from the fact that maps are full of objects that block your los and your kiting, what do you do when they can run as fast as you?

Well if you put in the changes then turn and bolt straight for them, take maybe one volley and start dog fighting. Being that close and turning and all the avoiding {Scrap} Streaks would not be able to hit consistantly unless you had the guy line up.

Over all I agree anything with a 20 point alpha and up will tear a light apart. But playing a light is all about understanding your suroundings and making a good call on weither or not to engage. Gone are the days of plowing through the entire team and losing 2% health. I enjoy much it much more now since bad lights die like they should and a good light pilot can still take out any player based on piloting and good choices

[DemonRaziel]

While I admit that I am biased, since Lights are my most favorite weight class in this game, but I sincerely hate streaks in their current implementation (though admittedly they are less annoying than when they were "CT-only") of an I-win button against light 'Mechs.

This is not just about the Kintaros and Streak-Cats. There are many Assaults out there that can pack enough direct-fire firepower to obliterate their enemies while also utilizing their missile hardpoints for relatively low-weight, low-space SSRMs, effectively saying "screw you" to all the Lights that would dare getting w/in 270m of them.

In this scenario, Lights are in danger if they are at a distance, since then it's not that hard to hit them with your direct fire weaponry and completely out of the game if they get close enough to be hit by streaks.

In a game where capping takes ages, scouting is pretty much useless on most maps (and even if it wasn't, it shouldn't be the sole purpose of these 'Mechs as opposed to actually participating in the only real thing to do in this game - combat), damage is the main deciding factor and drops are overflown by Heavies and Assaults... I sometimes wonder how many more incentives to not play Lights (and Mediums, for that matter, but that's another story) are to be introduced?

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

The simplest appears to be dropping SSRM damage down to ~2.0. Although I don't think it will really fix the core problem, I would be willing to try it out to see.

This should be done, I don't see a reason why they do more damage than standard, unguided SRMs (and difficulties killing a least powerful, firepower-wise, 'Mech in game is not a reason to auto-win against all Lights with a single weapon). Maybe even slightly below 2.0 (such as 1.8, or 1.9), but 2.0 would be a good start.

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Another suggestion would be to have locks break after each firing. While this would be closer to fixing them, in my opinion, I don't think PGI can put such a change in, in any near time-frame.

Don't think they can even do that, since that would also affect LRMs.

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Returning SSRM behavior to Closed Beta performance. While I think this would be the best solution, as they seemed balanced back then, I am not sure PGI would be willing to make such a change.

Making it so that you can't fire your SSRMs to hit a target behind you, would be a great way to adjust the missile behavior and agility.

Edited by DemonRaziel, 03 October 2013 - 03:48 PM.

[Ngamok]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 October 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Is that it? Just really dangerous? Three times the SRM fire as a Streak boat... where's the complaints that its OP?

Gonna make an ON1-VA with 4xSSRM2, 2xLPL, 1xLB-X AC for those lights that come around.

ON1-VA

Edited by Ngamok, 03 October 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[FrDrake]

Ngamok, on 03 October 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Gonna make an ON1-VA with 4xSSRM2, 2xLPL, 1xLB-X AC for those lights that come around.

Can an ONI take an AC/20? Lights are about 10x more scared of an AC/20 than an LBX/10

[-Natural Selection-]

I personally think there is nothing wrong with them.

All these skilled light pilots taking down assaults time after time as claimed don't know to stay 270m from a KTO with streaks? Well, then I say stop charging into packs of 8 people like nothing is going to happen. Hell, I stay away from mediums packing AC's in my stalker (and they are faster).

Put 2 on a jenner or raven and go after a spider using only them then come say they are OP.

[DemonRaziel]

FrDrake, on 03 October 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Can an ONI take an AC/20? Lights are about 10x more scared of an AC/20 than an LBX/10

Only with a standard engine.

[Wispsy]

Dozier, on 03 October 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

I personally think there is nothing wrong with them.

All these skilled light pilots taking down assaults time after time as claimed don't know to stay 270m from a KTO with streaks? Well, then I say stop charging into packs of 8 people like nothing is going to happen. Hell, I stay away from mediums packing AC's in my stalker (and they are faster).

Put 2 on a jenner or raven and go after a spider using only them then come say they are OP.

You do realise if you fight a spider in your jenner using nothing but 2xssrm2s then you will win hands down unless you stand still?

[Kunae]

DemonRaziel, on 03 October 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Don't think they can even do that, since that would also affect LRMs.

They would have to make a separate locking reticule for streaks, to do that. Thus why I don't think they will.

DemonRaziel, on 03 October 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Making it so that you can't fire your SSRMs to hit a target behind you, would be a great way to adjust the missile behavior and agility.

It was also that they could miss. At least some of them, and I think it was because they had a much worse turning ability.

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

You do realise if you fight a spider in your jenner using nothing but 2xssrm2s then you will win hands down unless you stand still?

QFT

[Ngamok]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

OK but putting aside from the fact that maps are full of objects that block your los and your kiting, what do you do when they can run as fast as you?

Put in a bigger engine and get speed tweak.

[Ngamok]

FrDrake, on 03 October 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Can an ONI take an AC/20? Lights are about 10x more scared of an AC/20 than an LBX/10

Yes, it's called LPLs and they hit pretty fast.

[DemonRaziel]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

You do realise if you fight a spider in your jenner using nothing but 2xssrm2s then you will win hands down unless you stand still?

Highly unlikely. Unless the Spider is unarmed (also depends on the particular chassi, I guess).

[Joseph Mallan]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

You do realise if you fight a spider in your jenner using nothing but 2xssrm2s then you will win hands down unless you stand still?

With how Canon Spiders are armed a Jenner(canon r otherwise) should hands down beat the stuffing out of a Spider

[Cybermech]

well the thought of simply putting down the streak damage as a solution is kind of puzzling to me.
Surely the damage was originally down, incomes new mechanic and then the damage gets put up.
I'm still using the Kin with no skills unlocked, got 1 game with 700 damage and 3-4 kills.
But tbh I had nothing to do with me, my team allowed me to get this damage.

Also remember really, really good chance that when 4's and 6's come into play the damage will be reduced.
I'm not seeing anything (so far) that requires streaks to get looked at.
Missile hit detection needs to be improved in all formats before streaks get looked at.

[Vodrin Thales]

FrDrake, on 03 October 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Can an ONI take an AC/20? Lights are about 10x more scared of an AC/20 than an LBX/10

Yep. I would much rather use a standard AC10 than a LBX for dealing with lights. Popping a leg off is so much easier with pinpoint damage.

Cybermech, on 03 October 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

well the thought of simply putting down the streak damage as a solution is kind of puzzling to me.
Surely the damage was originally down, incomes new mechanic and then the damage gets put up.
I'm still using the Kin with no skills unlocked, got 1 game with 700 damage and 3-4 kills.
But tbh I had nothing to do with me, my team allowed me to get this damage.

Also remember really, really good chance that when 4's and 6's come into play the damage will be reduced.
I'm not seeing anything (so far) that requires streaks to get looked at.
Missile hit detection needs to be improved in all formats before streaks get looked at.

I have a feeling streak 4's and 6's will have much longer cooldowns with higher heat production. It's the only way I can see them being the least bit balanced.