575 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Vodrin Thales, on 02 October 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

I guess the one thing I can say is that streak Kintaros are very weak against 50 ton + mechs with pinpoint damage loadouts. I'm ok with them shredding light mechs because good light pilots can easily draw them into situations where they are easily dispatched.

Well, I actually like the Quickdraw laser/light mech defense escort that does this job well. Light swarms can definitely work vs the Streaktaro, if played properly.

RandomLurker, on 02 October 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Kind of like the terribad hard missile counter that ECM is?

Exactly.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 October 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[Chemie]

PGI could always ghost heat those babies. Honestly nerfing them would make those same lights that carry one or two useless too.

[Kunae]

Deathlike, on 02 October 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Artemis speeds up locks, not BAP. BAP only speeds up info gathering (like the module) in addition to the terribad hard ECM counter.

Ah, so you're right. I was conflating the speedup of target info with sped-up locks. My bad.

[Mechteric]

SSRMs should be guided but not 100% guaranteed hit. See Mechwarrior Living Legends for how they should treat them. Actually I think the MWO streaks were like that at one time way back before HSR. Perhaps its time for a return to that.

[Kunae]

Vodrin Thales, on 02 October 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

I guess the one thing I can say is that streak Kintaros are very weak against 50 ton + mechs with pinpoint damage loadouts. I'm ok with them shredding light mechs because good light pilots can easily draw them into situations where they are easily dispatched.

Not if you have to stop a cap, or force a cap. If you're forced into a 1v1 situation, in a light vs a Streak-taro, you're going to lose.

[FrDrake]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Yep.

It's no where near as devastating as 5, but it's 5pts of auto-hit damage, which shouldn't be in the game. Think of it. Someone gives you an AC5, with a 3.5sec recharge, range of 270m, weighs effectively 2.5t, but it hits automatically every time you fire it. Is that balanced?

Kunae, you know I respect you as a player, but look at what you are describing, you left off 2 important parts in your analysis above, The dmg is halved and then randomly distributed to the target. Pinpoint dmg is OP, not random damage.

The ONLY reason the Kintaro and SSRMs are OP is that you do enough random damage to actually accumulate appreciable damage to the same location.

SSRMs are right now what EVERY weapon in the TT was.

If every missile hit CT then I would be on board with you, but they fixed that and so I'm not.

If a Jenner and a Kintaro faced off against each other the Jenner would win, blow out the shoulder and Kintaro dead. But that doesn't happen you say because the Kintaro has fire support so the Jenner that stops moving is dead. Well what about the Jenner's friends, now the argument is "teamwork is OP".

[D1G17AL]

Well that's the point of the streaktaro..
. You keep making this argument as if the issue is a real one.

[Kunae]

D1G17AL, on 02 October 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

I think because he is trying to use the same absurd logic that you are. What you think is broken works fine for the rest of us. Your arguments for why streaks are broken can be overcome with a little skill and knowing when to avoid a fight. It really seems like you want this to be low effort for whatever light mech that you are piloting. Go back and learn better.

Thanks for that insightful comment.

I'm a fair light pilot, and you obviously are not one at all, except for maybe spiders. I am sure you are one who also railed against Jenners getting ECM, and believed Garths silly 3second atlas kill, by a Jenner, if they put DHS at 2.0.

Please.

Deathlike, on 02 October 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

TBH, I thought the version of Streaks used in Closed Beta (having seen Koniving's vids) is the best solution.

Skill based evasion vs missiles that are not always fast enough to hit lights with precision. It'll hurt slower mechs more, but they're not going to evade much anyhow.

I agree. In CB they worked much more appropriately.

Edited by Kunae, 02 October 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[Livewyr]

Chemie, on 02 October 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

PGI could always ghost heat those babies.

You shut your w**** mouth!

(Chemie said nothing, PGI, move along.)

What are you thinking? Are you out of your mind? We want to get rid of it in favor of more logical methods.. not ADD to it!

[Kunae]

CapperDeluxe, on 02 October 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

SSRMs should be guided but not 100% guaranteed hit. See Mechwarrior Living Legends for how they should treat them. Actually I think the MWO streaks were like that at one time way back before HSR. Perhaps its time for a return to that.

Yeah, back in closed beta, and for a couple weeks into Open Beta. Then mid-November they buffed them to always hit, and the Streak-Cat was born!

[FrDrake]

Livewyr, on 02 October 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

You shut your w**** mouth!

(Chemie said nothing, PGI, move along.)

What are you thinking? Are you out of your mind? We want to get rid of it in favor of more logical methods.. not ADD to it!

The good Kintaros chain fire those puppies anyway, to keep you rattle locked.

[Team Leader]

FupDup, on 02 October 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Of course Streaks are supposed to be useful, but the thing is that they currently discriminate against specific weight classes when they really shouldn't. SSRM2 should "ideally" just be a regular SRM2 that tracks where your reticule was aimed when you fired (as opposed to normal SRM dumbfire) for a higher chance of hitting. Right now, it's an almost guaranteed hit that requires effectively no skill whatsoever to utilize because you don't have to aim at the desired hit location; the game chooses where you hit and lets you hit even if your crosshairs are nowhere near the enemy mech.

ThIs woyld actually fix the problem of streaks. I kinda agree with Kunae... its not that streaks are super OP or amazing weapons, but the skill-effort-reward ratios are all messed up. In a game of pinpoint accuracy why do we need streaks? Sure, good anti light weapon but requiring skill wouldnt stop that, just makw it more fair and balanced

[Kunae]

Team Leader, on 02 October 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

ThIs woyld actually fix the problem of streaks. I kinda agree with Kunae... its not that streaks are super OP or amazing weapons, but the skill-effort-reward ratios are all messed up. In a game of pinpoint accuracy why do we need streaks? Sure, good anti light weapon but requiring skill wouldnt stop that, just makw it more fair and balanced

Thank you.

[D1G17AL]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Thanks for that insightful comment.

I'm a fair light pilot, and you obviously are not one at all, except for maybe spiders. I am sure you are one who also railed against Jenners getting ECM, and believed Garths silly 3second atlas kill on by a Jenner, if they put DHS at 2.0.

Please.


I agree. In CB they worked much more appropriately.

Excuse me but I use light mechs. Your logic is off base. Streaks are not what need fixing. It's your tactics on the ground that need fixing. You lack personal insight with which to judge a situation untenable on the field of battle.

Just cause you think I'm some {Noble MechWarrior} doesn't automatically make it so. I have my share of issues in the game but at least I'm not actively blaming the devs for my shortcomings.

[Mystere]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Not if you have to stop a cap, or force a cap. If you're forced into a 1v1 situation, in a light vs a Streak-taro, you're going to lose.

But isn't that the whole point of a highly-specialized build (i.e. light hunter-killer)?

[D1G17AL]

Mystere, on 02 October 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

But isn't that the whole point of a highly-specialized build (i.e. light hunter-killer)?

Stop it
That makes too much sense.

[Sephlock]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

They are also OP in any number..

I think what you mean to say is that they are OP for their weight/investment. Because putting just 1 or 2 SSRMs on a mech is generally a waste when you could devote that tonnage or those slots to things like SRM6 launchers or additional heat sinks for other weapon systems.

In practice, however efficient they may be damage/ton wise, they aren't that great unless you carry lots of them.

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Why are streaks anti-light weapons? Do you see anyone complaining about people exploiting or boating SRM2's?

No one even USES them. That is also a problem.

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Yep.

It's no where near as devastating as 5, but it's 5pts of auto-hit damage, which shouldn't be in the game. Think of it. Someone gives you an AC5, with a 3.5sec recharge, range of 270m, weighs effectively 2.5t, but it hits automatically every time you fire it. Is that balanced?

Given how badly it is scattered, and the relative effectiveness of the alternatives (other weapons you could use with those slots, or alternate uses for that tonnage), yeah.

I for one would rather have 4 more DHS or a faster engine rather than 2 SSRM2s and 1 ton of ammo.

[PropagandaWar]

FrDrake, on 02 October 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Kunae, you know I respect you as a player, but look at what you are describing, you left off 2 important parts in your analysis above, The dmg is halved and then randomly distributed to the target. Pinpoint dmg is OP, not random damage.

The ONLY reason the Kintaro and SSRMs are OP is that you do enough random damage to actually accumulate appreciable damage to the same location.

SSRMs are right now what EVERY weapon in the TT was.

If every missile hit CT then I would be on board with you, but they fixed that and so I'm not.

If a Jenner and a Kintaro faced off against each other the Jenner would win, blow out the shoulder and Kintaro dead. But that doesn't happen you say because the Kintaro has fire support so the Jenner that stops moving is dead. Well what about the Jenner's friends, now the argument is "teamwork is OP".

So what happens when you pack 4 Streak 6 Srm's even at random at the current value thats 60 points per salvo that more often than not only hit 4 locations and if the days going your way more missles will hit one limb over the other essentially nuking just about everything. Bring in a Streak cat and oh lord lets chain fire what about 8 of those things at 120 damage per salvo. No legs, No arms no service. Just saying.

[Charons Little Helper]

This conversation :

Paper : "Scissors are so freakin' broken and easy mode they should be removed from the game."

Rock : "I think that scissors are fine."


Ssrms are good against lights. They suck against assaults. LRMs are the opposite. (or would be without ECM)

[Corvus Antaka]

l o l