575 replies to this topic

[Kunae]

Deathlike, on 02 October 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

The Streaktaro is the most effective Streak boat, bar none

Yep. And this is due to its speed and its backup weapons.

[Gaan Cathal]

John Wolf, on 02 October 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

This is an interesting concept. However, SSRM's are a matter of Canon, and are guided. Does this mean they hit all the time? Yes, if you don't have cover. Similar to LRMs, which are auto hit as well as long as you have a lock. Guided missiles are guided missiles.

Argument invalid, as a "Matter Of Canon" SRMs are just as guided as SSRMs and LRMs (and, indeed MRMs). The only Canon (all bow to the holy canon) dumbfire missiles are Rockets.

John Wolf, on 02 October 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

If you can give me a proper example of why SSRM's are broken, other than they kill lights, then I'd be happy to discuss and review that.

My 2 cents.

Because you're comparing SSRM2 and SRM6. You should be comparing SSRM2 with SRM2. Suddenly, one is far, far superior to the other.

Compare ASRM2 and SSRM2, infact - both essentially 'upgraded' SRM2s. The ASRM2 costs 2 tons, 2 crits, gives you a tight dumbfire pair of missiles at 2.0 damage/missile. The SSRM2 costs 1 slot, 1.5 tons and gives you a pair of random-bone homing missiles that do 2.5 damage/missile.

So, for the cost of 0.5t and a slot, we get to loose auto-aiming and a reduction from 5 damage to 4. That's patently moronic.

On a similar front, compare ASRM6 at 4t, 3crits for 12 dumbfire damage with SSRM6 at 4.5t, 2crits for 15 random-bone homing damage.

In what world is the increased weight (excepting for the M-6 variants) and critslots worth paying in order to "gain" a requirement to aim (arguably balanced by the ability to aim) and reduced damage?


Frankly, SSRM2 need reducing to 2.0 dmg/missile. They've only got the 2.5 damage buff because some (stupid) people think they should be on par with ASRM4/6. They shouldn't. They cost less. Costing less means they should be worse.

[Sephlock]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Is there a highly specialized Assault killer? How bout a Heavy-killer... I am sure we've got some of those.

Why do you think it's necessary to have this type of mechanic in the game?

You know what, I agree with you! That IS clearly indicative of a problem!

SSRMs need to be made better vs other things!

... wait, that's not what you meant?

But... the reason there are no highly specialized Assault killers or highly specialized Heavy killers is because the things that are good against those types of mechs are also good against others*, whereas SSRMs are only good against lights and maybe okay against some mediums if you boat the hell out of them and get to close range without being mauled by your target's teammates.


* With the possible exception of post-nerf Gauss rifles, although you can compensate for the firing delay so long as you aren't facing a fast mech that is darting in and out of cover.... and really that's more of a problem against all mechs that aren't slow as hell/sans jumpjets.

[Kunae]

Ngamok, on 02 October 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Dunno, the 5M can't turn fast enough to keep lock. The A1 can though and has JJs.

The A1 suffers from only missile hard-points and a relatively slow speed. You can keep range on A1's in a light, and kill them, in most circumstances.

[Ngamok]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Yep. And this is due to its speed and its backup weapons.

Guess I'll be killing any Streaktaro I see now to help my light pilot friends.

[Deathlike]

TexAss, on 02 October 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Guess what a skilled player can shoot that Kintaro's side torso off in 4 seconds to kill it.

I haven't really looked into the side hitbox too much to know if that's the most effective route.

Ngamok, on 02 October 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

And of which any Light can avoid running into and away from a Streak Boat. It goes both ways.

Edit: Skilled Light Pilots.

Avoiding it and letting someone bigger deal with it is the best counter. At least, it's smarter to strike the Streaktaro when it's occupied by something that doesn't fear it.

A Quickdraw (ideally the 5K, but the 4H is fine) used in this role is effective IMO.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 October 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[Charons Little Helper]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Thank you for acknowledging that Streak-Kintaros can kill a lone light mech with impunity.

As for your other point, no, there is no other mech build, that does not rely on streaks, which can do this.

Actually - my 9 spl hunchie can chew through lights freakishly fast if I can get in range. (30.6 nearly precision damage every 2.75 seconds) And since it's a hunchie and not a kintaro - lights don't know to stay away. (and it can book it at 98kph with a standard engine) That's basically what I built it for. It can't solo anything bigger than a med though - 3 alphas is the max before I start to overheat (maybe 4-5 on ice maps).

Edited by Charons Little Helper, 02 October 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[Kunae]

Sephlock, on 02 October 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

You know what, I agree with you! That IS clearly indicative of a problem!

SSRMs need to be made better vs other things!

... wait, that's not what you meant?

But... the reason there are no highly specialized Assault killers or highly specialized Heavy killers is because the things that are good against those types of mechs are also good against others*, whereas SSRMs are only good against lights and maybe okay against some mediums if you boat the hell out of them and get to close range without being mauled by your target's teammates.


* With the possible exception of post-nerf Gauss rifles, although you can compensate for the firing delay so long as you aren't facing a fast mech that is darting in and out of cover.... and really that's more of a problem against all mechs that aren't slow as hell/sans jumpjets.

If they were better against heavier mechs, they'd be nerfed yesterday. This was why they were given random hit locations in the first place, to make it so you couldn't kill heavies and assaults with them, as was being done for a long time.

Lasers and ballistics kill light mechs just fine, with the exception of the broken HSR/hitbox spider. Why do we need, in the meta, a weapon only useful against lights/meds?

[TexAce]

Dude just get over it, you found the sciccors to your paper(-thin armor). I start to feel sorry for you lol.

and again no, the 5SSRM2 Kintaro is definately not OP.

[Kunae]

Ngamok, on 02 October 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Guess I'll be killing any Streaktaro I see now to help my light pilot friends.

And we will thank you for it.

[Livewyr]

SSRMs = Light mech nightmare..
UAC5s and LRMS = Assault mech nightmare. (Seriously, try and hit a light mech at full speed with LRMs...now try an assault.)

I fail to see the problem here.

[Deathlike]

Ngamok, on 02 October 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Dunno, the 5M can't turn fast enough to keep lock. The A1 can though and has JJs.

That is what Target Decay is for... but I'd rather have the 5M do better things.

[D1G17AL]

Just go to bed Kunae. You're drunk.

[Kunae]

Charons Little Helper, on 02 October 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Actually - my 9 spl hunchie can chew through lights freakishly fast if I can get in range. (30.6 nearly precision damage every 2.75 seconds) And since it's a hunchie and not a kintaro - lights don't know to stay away. (and it can book it at 98kph with a standard engine) That's basically what I built it for. It can't solo anything bigger than a med though - 3 alphas is the max before I start to overheat (maybe 4-5 on ice maps).

See, that's part of my point. Lasers and ballistics work just fine, why should there be some other crutch, which conversely takes zero skill, to serve the same purpose?

[Livewyr]

Livewyr, on 02 October 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

SSRMs = Light mech nightmare..
UAC5s and LRMS = Assault mech nightmare. (Seriously, try and hit a light mech at full speed with LRMs...now try an assault.)

I fail to see the problem here.

I take that back. I do see a problem here.

LRMs have a 1000 meter range and UAC5s have a 600 meter optimal range out to 1800 meters damage range.
SSRMs only have 270.

SSRMs need a range buff to 800 meters to be more in line with their purpose.

[TexAce]

I believe you are clearly trollin right now.

Besides, 25 spread out on the mech every 4 seconds is how OP compared to the 45 a hunchie does to ONE location. Or any other mech with an alpha more than 25. Most cooldowns (all?) are not higher than 4 seconds, so everyone can alpha every 4 seconds and most of us can alpha higher than 25, even some lights can.

So what was your point now?

[D1G17AL]

Because thy are a part of the game just Luke Mech mortars will be a part, like the snub nosed ppc will be a part or the heavy Gauss rifle, adjust your play style to fit what your facing. Stop blaming the weapon system for your failure in combat.

[Sephlock]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

If they were better against heavier mechs, they'd be nerfed yesterday. This was why they were given random hit locations in the first place, to make it so you couldn't kill heavies and assaults with them, as was being done for a long time.

That and to make them poopy vs lights until the damage buff, and then only when boated.

Quote

Lasers and ballistics kill light mechs just fine, with the exception of the broken HSR/hitbox spider. Why do we need, in the meta, a weapon only useful against lights/meds?

Right, so we need to reverse the above, and make them viable against everything again!

Then we just need to filter out all posts containing "SSRM" for about a year, and everything will be fine. The whiners can stew in their own juices and vent their impotent rage on other forums, and the Devs can stop nerfing things that don't need nerfing!

[Bront]

Gaan Cathal, on 02 October 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

On a similar front, compare ASRM6 at 4t, 3crits for 12 dumbfire damage with SSRM6 at 4.5t, 2crits for 15 random-bone homing damage.

In what world is the increased weight (excepting for the M-6 variants) and critslots worth paying in order to "gain" a requirement to aim (arguably balanced by the ability to aim) and reduced damage?

At the moment, to do the SSRM6, you need 3 missile slots to the 1 you need for a single ASRM6, so there is that.

Also, you need a lock, so ECM stops an SSRM or at least hinders it without additional equipment. Throw the BAP in there for another 1.5 tons, and the comparison looks a bit better.

That said, I still think they should be 2.0 damange and not 2.5 for SSRM. Otherwise, they're fine.

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Lasers and ballistics kill light mechs just fine, with the exception of the broken HSR/hitbox spider. Why do we need, in the meta, a weapon only useful against lights/meds?

Because, in warfare, someone would make them?

[Deathlike]

Jonathan Paine, on 02 October 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

For SSRM2, I think the solution is the usual. Slightly nerf damage. Consider forcing a new lock between rounds of fire. If and when mechs can boat SSRM4's and SSRM6's, now that will be a real problem.

Well, I already like the solution, but there is an issue with the bolded statement.

The idea to reacquire the lock is fine in terms of increasing the skill requirement, but the actual problem is that the missile locking code is linked to the LRMs. PGI has refused to alter the code so that Artemis doesn't benefit Streaks, but the mere fact that LRMs are tied into this code would make it problematic if you were the Catapult A1 Champion... where firing Streaks would automatically break locks made for LRMs (this kinda assumes that the target is in 180-270 range) and that gets complicated and messy.