575 replies to this topic

[PropagandaWar]

FrDrake, on 02 October 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Ok, so max missile slots is currently 6, 36 missiles, 90 damage alpha strikes.

IS SSRM 6 weighs 4.5 tons each, cashing in at 27 tons of weapons.

At 4 heat a piece, you are looking at almost the same heat as 2 PPCs and an AC/20 (which incidentally only weigh 1 ton more)

So you have 40 pinpoint damage versus 90 random damage for (almost) equivalent tonnage/heat. The ppc/ac20 setup greatly outranges the ssrm setup.

I don't see the problem. Vets are going to choose pinpoint damage, noobstompers will choose lolcats for the funzies. There is no concieveable argument I can come up with why someone would take the random damage over the pinpoint. You know what kills alight in 4 seconds, the 40 pinpoint from the ppc and ac/20, none of this "chase around the light and plink him to death".

Yeah but 2 "er PPCS" at 30 heat which you would want if we are talking about the counter to the short range sweet spot. I tend to use spread, rapid and follow dot weapons more than shoot recharge shoot Not only for damage but taking out weapons and forcing the enemy to move etc, etc. The streak 6's in a 4 pack are going to eat away at what I go for quicker than ppcs any day of the week because I like to fight close and fire away. Coupled with LBX's at the current damage for streaks mechs will just be done. Part of me wants to argue this point to death because I'm a SRM user and I feel SRM's require more patience and skill and therefor shouldn't be at the very least less powerful than the streaks.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

While I have previously voiced my opinions on missile weapon balance the issue is now as always balancing them such that 1 or 2 missile weapons are useful without making boating them OP.

In short, my opinion is that SRMs should have limited guidance and spread out like SSRMs do currently and SSRMs should be returned to TT damage values. Then there should be a limit on the number of missile locks determined by the targeting computer of the mech. In this way missile weapons can be balanced such that one is useful while limiting the practicality of boating.

Also I'd like to say that while kintaro SSRM boats are dangerous to lights who can usually jump to safety or get behind cover to reduce damage they are fatal to slower mediums who can't do enough damage fast enough to kill them and can't get away. However since the Kintaro is easily killed by heavies and assaults due to its rather large CT I think it is more or less alright in a rock paper scissors kind of way.

[Kunae]

TexAss, on 02 October 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

I believe you are clearly trollin right now.

Besides, 25 spread out on the mech every 4 seconds is how OP compared to the 45 a hunchie does to ONE location. Or any other mech with an alpha more than 25. Most cooldowns (all?) are not higher than 4 seconds, so everyone can alpha every 4 seconds and most of us can alpha higher than 25, even some lights can.

So what was your point now?

The hunchie actually has to aim, and hit.

[TexAce]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

The hunchie actually has to aim, and hit.

I can aim and hit faster and for more power to one location with my hunchie than a light hunter kintaro can gain lock for his streaks. A good light pilot doesn't let you gain locks that easy, especially not in close combat.
Just give it up man.

Edited by TexAss, 02 October 2013 - 01:20 PM.

[D1G17AL]

You don't actually play much do you Kunae, 3500 posts leaving you little time to play the actual game in a day. Stop trolling and lurking and go play.

[Deathlike]

TexAss, on 02 October 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

I can aim and hit faster and for more power to one location with my hunchie than a light hunter kintaro can gain lock for his streaks. A good light pilot doesn't let you gain locks that easy, especially not in close combat.
Just give it up man.

Target Decay and Artemis bonus abuse makes this easy.

It's smarter to just avoid the fight or hope for a distraction (or a bigger teammate) for the Kintaro to deal with.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 October 2013 - 01:22 PM.

[Kunae]

TexAss, on 02 October 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

I can aim and hit faster and for more power to one location with my hunchie than a light hunter kintaro can gain lock for his streaks. A good light pilot doesn't let you gain locks that easy, especially not in close combat.
Just give it up man.

Good for you. Kudos on your skillz.

With target decay, and Artemis, it's not hard to get and maintain a lock with streaks.

Deathlike, on 02 October 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Target Decay and Artemis bonus abuse makes this easy.

It's smarter to just avoid the fight or hope for a distraction (or a bigger teammate) for the Kintaro to deal with.

In a perfect world, yep. Not always an option, unfortunately.

[NocturnalBeast]

I respectfully disagree, SSRMS are fine the way they are now. SSRM damage is no longer concentrates on the CT, the missles no longer can turn at a 90deg angle and they can now be stopped by hard cover. Also, streaks can be easily negated with ECM, or just by staying out of their range. Personally, I am glad to have at least one weapon that does not just bounce off of spiders.

[Gaan Cathal]

Charons Little Helper, on 02 October 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Actually - my 9 spl hunchie can chew through lights freakishly fast if I can get in range. (30.6 nearly precision damage every 2.75 seconds) And since it's a hunchie and not a kintaro - lights don't know to stay away. (and it can book it at 98kph with a standard engine) That's basically what I built it for. It can't solo anything bigger than a med though - 3 alphas is the max before I start to overheat (maybe 4-5 on ice maps).

Yeah? Mediums in good-at-killing-lights shocker. When SRMs actually function, the HBK-4SP can do much the same thing. SRMs brutalise lights when their code is functioning. The issue is that not only does the Streaktaro have the advantage of free damage (+0.5/missile) over SRMs, it - unlike the Swayback or -4SP or indeed any real Centurion build - requires no actual skill beyond keeping the target broadly near the middle of the screen. All other skills required by the Streaktaro (movement, range dictation, etc) are also required by dumbfire loadouts, and in addition they need to actually ******* aim.

Bront, on 02 October 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

At the moment, to do the SSRM6, you need 3 missile slots to the 1 you need for a single ASRM6, so there is that.

Also, you need a lock, so ECM stops an SSRM or at least hinders it without additional equipment. Throw the BAP in there for another 1.5 tons, and the comparison looks a bit better.

That said, I still think they should be 2.0 damage and not 2.5 for SSRM. Otherwise, they're fine.

That's not an SSRM6, that's 3xSSRM2. Balancing the SSRM mechanics around the theory that "it's fine, because SSRM4/6 won't be here for a few months" is moronic, because as soon as the Clans appear, SSRM6 will, and everyone will raeg. Because 15 homing ******* damage/launcher.


Again, I can agree that the "doesn't need aiming" thing is somewhat balanced now (since bone-homing) by "can't be aimed". The boosted damage however, has no justification at all and only gets away with existing because of a short-sighted assumption that SSRM only comes in 2-packs.

[Kunae]

Ed Steele, on 02 October 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

I respectfully disagree, SSRMS are fine the way they are now. SSRM damage is no longer concentrates on the CT, the missles no longer can turn at a 90deg angle and they can now be stopped by hard cover. Also, streaks can be easily negated with ECM, or just by staying out of their range. Personally, I am glad to have at least one weapon that does not just bounce off of spiders.

See, this is the stilted view that PGI is playing off of. Just because they can't fix spiders/HSR, they've put this in. And they waited long enough that so many of you are just happy to have something to kill the broken spiders, and "to hell with the consequences".

And SSRMs still can hit targets behind you. There is no turning or launching limitation. They are not negated by ECM because any semi-competent SSRM user has BAP. Oh, and I might add, not every light can carry ECM. Very few, in fact.

Edited by Kunae, 02 October 2013 - 01:27 PM.

[Appogee]

I understand your concerns, but Streaks seem about right to me.

I've been playing Kintaros lately and it's been shocking how in some games standard SRMs seem to have such hit detection issues.

At least if I want to change to SSRMs I know they will hit. The way you can't load any more than two per hardpoint, and that they spread their damage around, seems a reasonable balance point.

If Streaks came in sizes above 2 per hardpoint, then I agree they'd be OP.

Edited by Appogee, 02 October 2013 - 01:27 PM.

[Deathlike]

Gaan Cathal, on 02 October 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Again, I can agree that the "doesn't need aiming" thing is somewhat balanced now (since bone-homing) by "can't be aimed". The boosted damage however, has no justification at all and only gets away with existing because of a short-sighted assumption that SSRM only comes in 2-packs.

All hail our new Madcat-D overlords.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 October 2013 - 01:28 PM.

[TexAce]

Gaan Cathal, on 02 October 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Again, I can agree that the "doesn't need aiming" thing is somewhat balanced now (since bone-homing) by "can't be aimed". The boosted damage however, has no justification at all and only gets away with existing because of a short-sighted assumption that SSRM only comes in 2-packs.

No one in the world stops them tuning the numbers when we actually get clan tech which can be 6 to 8 to 10 months away, so why should we nerf a really bad weapon (SSRM2s) right now and play for 6,8 or 10 months with them?

[D1G17AL]

Where did they say that they still have broken spiders? Can you actually cite that one cause I have no real HSR problems with the spiders

[Kunae]

Appogee, on 02 October 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

I understand your concerns, but Streaks seem about right to me.

I've been playing Kintaros lately and it's been shocking how in some games standard SRMs seem to have such hit detection issues.

At least if I want to change to SSRMs I know they will hit. The way you can't load any more than two per hardpoint, and that they spread their damage around, seems a reasonable balance point.

If Streaks came in sizes above 2 per hardpoint, then I agree they'd be OP.

I understand this thought process, and I really wish they would fix more than just the Hit-Reg on SRMs. The current spreads need a major rethink, as well. It's silly that SRMs, fired from any launcher, have the same spread depending on size. The same static spread is also ridiculous... why is that one missile, from an SRM4, go off by itself?

[TexAce]

D1G17AL, on 02 October 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

Where did they say that they still have broken spiders? Can you actually cite that one cause I have no real HSR problems with the spiders

[Mystere]

<Waiving hand vigorously in a desperate attempt to get attention in a fast-moving thread>

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Is there a highly specialized Assault killer? How bout a Heavy-killer... I am sure we've got some of those.

Why do you think it's necessary to have this type of mechanic in the game?

Mystere, on 02 October 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Yes, it's called a 6x(ER)PPC Stalker shooting anyone in the back.

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

No, if a fresh Jenner and a fresh 5-streak Kintaro face off, the Kint will always win.

Mystere, on 02 October 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Not if the Jenner is able to stay away from the SSRMs range.

Edited by Mystere, 02 October 2013 - 01:31 PM.

[Deathlike]

TexAss, on 02 October 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

No one in the world stops them tuning the numbers when we actually get clan tech which can be 6 to 8 to 10 months away, so why should we nerf a really bad weapon (SSRM2s) right now and play for 6,8 or 10 months with them?

2.5 is too much for SSRMs. I did advocate for a boost when the random body part change was made... but I was personally expecting 2.0 from the get go... not the 2.5 which is arguably the only effective short range missile at the very moment.

[Kunae]

D1G17AL, on 02 October 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

Where did they say that they still have broken spiders? Can you actually cite that one cause I have no real HSR problems with the spiders

It was when they made the change to 2.5dmg. HSR, against spiders, has improved a bunch, though you still run into the occasional unhittable ones.

[Bront]

Gaan Cathal, on 02 October 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

That's not an SSRM6, that's 3xSSRM2. Balancing the SSRM mechanics around the theory that "it's fine, because SSRM4/6 won't be here for a few months" is moronic, because as soon as the Clans appear, SSRM6 will, and everyone will raeg. Because 15 homing ******* damage/launcher.

Clan SSRM6 is 3 tons and 2 crit slots. Clan ASRM is 2.5 tons and 3 crit slots. IS still doesn't get an SSRM6 for some time.

(And I do agree that ultimately the damage should be identical. It's silly for it not to be). Personally, the only SRM I'd put Artemis on is a 6.