223 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Jman5, on 06 October 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

The ironic thing about all this is that the haters like to think they are intelligent people who can think for themselves and yet it's them who are the biggest bunch of group-thinking sheep in the community. Right now the group-think tells them that PGI = bad so therefore anytime PGI does something, you have to point out the negative. If you can't find anything bad then you say things like: "This should have been in the game months ago!" or just bring something up totally unrelated "Ok, but where's community warfare?!"

It's pretty obvious when you see them all regurgitating the same talking-points, posting the same screenshots, and using identical signatures. These people are the biggest sheep in the community and yet they always put on these airs of being thoughtful and critical analyzers. It's pretty sad to see people so easily manipulated, but I take heart in the fact that their zombie-like brains will switch over to the "like" column once the people driving the hate-train decide the game is pretty good.

I can imagine people calling me a White Kniggit - I've never paid a lot of attention to it, but I assume that's the case. I don't necessarily defend PGI, though. I merely question the gains of attacking them all the time.

For example, I recently received a PM questioning why the Phoenix Pack was released at all, why they needed the "cash grab". The answer, to me, is simple: They are a business, and their job is to make money. The PP is a way to do that. There's always a segment of the community that seems set on proving somehow that MWO is dying, and trying to identify ways to prove that.

My opinion on this is simple, and related to the above.

There is no point in pursuing that line of reasoning at all. There's only a couple outcomes that are possible, if you think it through:

1) These folks are actually right. MWO is failing, PGI is struggling to get $ to pay the bills. If this is the case, broadcasting that just hastens the inevitable and gets things shut down faster. Nobody wants that.

2) They're wrong, MWO is NOT failing, but is struggling. Constantly screaming the sky is falling does nothing but scares off players, resulting in less sales, less income - and thus leads to failure. At that point, failure is entirely the fault of the naysaying sorts.

3) They're wrong, MWO is doing just fine. They're screaming nonsense into the wind, and it just doesn't matter.

I imagine they hope to somehow motivate PGI into doing what they feel is the right thing to "save MWO". This isn't going to happen. The reality is simple - PGI is doing what they feel is best. They're not going to halt their current development plans because quite frankly it's too late to get off the road they are on. Whether this is good or not is irrelevant, it's how things are. Throwing out their current development pipeline to change direction is just not a viable approach, and while every naysayer seems to feel they are part of a grand, unified group - close looks very quickly show how there are countless variations on what people feel PGI "should" do. Who does PGI listen to?

Now, I'm right there with constructive criticism. Sure, when something is released, you can point out flaws - balance issues, hitbox issues. I don't propose players only say shiny nice rainbow filled good things.

But complaining about sales? Constructing elaborate theories wherein PGI is performing manipulative marketing voodoo to trick players into forking over mounds of cash before shutting up shop and running off with the loot? This isn't constructive in any way, and is quite frankly both ridiculous and useless.

Ah well, what's the point of this, anyways? Nobody is going to stop and suddenly be reasonable, they'll continue their cries of doom and gloom because that's what people do, no matter what actually happens.

[Iqfish]

Wintersdark, on 06 October 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

-snip-

I can sign this, thats absolutely my opinion.

[Heffay]

Wintersdark, on 06 October 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Ah well, what's the point of this, anyways? Nobody is going to stop and suddenly be reasonable, they'll continue their cries of doom and gloom because that's what people do, no matter what actually happens.

Exactly. People would rather ride their failed theories all the way into the ground where it will make a huge smoking crater filled with the remains of their legitimacy than ever admit they were wrong.

Edited by Heffay, 06 October 2013 - 07:55 AM.

[theta123]

BLR-1G

TDR-5S

SHD-2H

LCT-1V


I AM READY

[Toadkillerdog]

Hexenhammer, on 05 October 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

Oh no. We have to protect people from themselves. Little Johnny might be offended and we can't afford to damage his psyche or he won't grow up to be my friend and live in mommy's basement till he's 26.

my favorite one yet was people whining that making victors MC only early on was scamming. I want to find who said this one, but somebody insisted over and over again that "taking advantage of somebody's impatience is scamming"...
Which means that cars are scams, because you're too impatient to walk...
and food is a scam, cause you're too impatient to grow it yourself....
Hell, money is a scam, cause you're too impatient to simply barter or club everyone over the head...

[Xeno Phalcon]

Toadkillerdog, on 06 October 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Hell, money is a scam, cause you're too impatient to simply barter or club everyone over the head...

Says you! I have a perfectly good stick laying around here somewhere....

[Corvus Antaka]

Of the actual playbase the people on these forums is a tiny fraction.

Of that fraction, an even tinier fraction is on a sky is falling island.

This is why PGI keeps working, and why the rest of us keep playing.

Some guys on teamspeak complain about the game everytime they log in. They complain for 4 hours straight. And yet every night, they log in without fail. They spend money on the game.

A lot of people are still waiting for armeggedon and have been for 2,000 years too. Just human nature at work.

[Galil Nain]

Wieland, on 06 October 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:

Its running more than 3 months now. Grow some balls and announce an end date.
If the biggest fans havent bought it yet they arent such big fans.

For those of us who have been here since OB, and even more so for those who have been here since CB, this package has been known about and available for purchase for 3+ months now. It is worth noting, however, that this game has only very recently left OB and "gone live". (I know that the differences were slight enough that many of us probably didn't notice, but it happens to be a fact.) I would guess (and I stress the word "guess", as I have no figures to back it up) that launch brought a not-insignificant influx of players who didn't previously know about PP and Saber.

Would it not be fair to give them a little more notice to scrape the funds together to be able to buy-in and at least have a chance at competing? Or is it your opinion that they should not have the opportunity to play for a few weeks to see if it's the right game for them before they lose the ability to buy into this deal, instead having to decide within a drop or two of signing up that they are sure enough about this being the right game for them to drop a not-insignificant amount of cash? Is just a few short weeks enough time to expect a new pilot to make such a judgement (we're not all on here multiple hours a day, you know!)?

The PP (and Saber) are the only way that a new player could affordably get their hands on both a collection of mechs AND enough mechbays for them to be able to grind the XP to master them. Cutting this offer off so soon after launch could leave the new players with something of a sour taste in their mouths at the apparent noticeable disadvantage, prompting them to leave stating favoritism for the longstanding community members due to not feeling that they had sufficient chance to buy in.

[Sochr000]

Ed Steele, on 04 October 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

Not really related, but will we be able to add the saber upgrade after the 15th?

I asked Bryan Eckman at the launch event and he said the Sabre upgrade would be available until December.

[Jack Gallows]

Wintersdark, on 06 October 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

1) These folks are actually right. MWO is failing, PGI is struggling to get $ to pay the bills. If this is the case, broadcasting that just hastens the inevitable and gets things shut down faster. Nobody wants that.

I'd say this isn't entirely true. I'd imagine there are those out there as we've heard from different posters that this is what they want, for the game to fail.

I see it mostly as...

1) Wants the game to fail. Some negativity is warranted, some is not.

2) People on the fence, don't know if they want it to fail but are edging close to it.

3) People willing to give MW:O the benefit of the doubt that it'll improve

4) White Knites, some blind to all negativity regardless of logic, others just optimistic and aren't as critical of naysayers.

Two extremes then two middling grounds.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 06 October 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[Nyden]

Jack Gallows, on 06 October 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

I'd say this isn't entirely true. I'd imagine there are those out there as we've heard from different posters that this is what they want, for the game to fail.

I think this is nonsense. Why would someone posting in the forums want the game to fail? Wouldn't they choose to play a game they wanted to succeed instead?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not really disagreeing with the premise of your post. Their are unreasonable people on both sides of the 'doom' debate. However, someone who never wanted to see this game again might post once to show their dissatisfaction, but I don't think they would stick around to troll. More likely the hardcores in the first category are hoping to steer the game in the manner they desire by hitting PGI in the wallet (and sometimes that means convincing others not to spend money either).

I do think there are people still mulling over the idea of a phoenix refund, I know I was right up until last week, and not because I wanted the game to fail. Because I honestly had doubts that I would play the game enough to be worth all that money, given the direction things seemed to be going.

I'm feeling heartened (or perhaps foolishly optimistic, time will tell) but their may be a lot of people still on the fence and I say good on PGI for being clear about when the waffling deadline falls. No arguments that way, nobody trying to claim a refund after the patch falls because some bug wasn't fixed or feature wasn't added to their satisfaction. Nobody taking a phoenix mech for a test run, then claiming they want a refund because some bug wasn't fixed or feature wasn't added.

Edited by Nyden, 06 October 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[Iqfish]

Jack Gallows, on 06 October 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

3) People willing to give MW:O the benefit of the doubt that it'll improve

This is me.

I'm recently giving my money to CR with Star Citizen, but still spending some € on MC every month.

If
- They keep up their current level off communication (which is excellent!)
- We get what the CW Posts promise
- We get that in time and not 6 months late

Im willing to give more money to them. Until then I'm a happy Overlord.

[New Day]

Jman5, on 06 October 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

The ironic thing about all this is that the haters like to think they are intelligent people who can think for themselves and yet it's them who are the biggest bunch of group-thinking sheep in the community. Right now the group-think tells them that PGI = bad so therefore anytime PGI does something, you have to point out the negative. If you can't find anything bad then you say things like: "This should have been in the game months ago!" or just bring something up totally unrelated "Ok, but where's community warfare?!"

It's pretty obvious when you see them all regurgitating the same talking-points, posting the same screenshots, and using identical signatures. These people are the biggest sheep in the community and yet they always put on these airs of being thoughtful and critical analyzers. It's pretty sad to see people so easily manipulated, but I take heart in the fact that their zombie-like brains will switch over to the "like" column once the people driving the hate-train decide the game is pretty good.

HEY! I made my own signature. Plenty of material to go around.

[Iqfish]

NamesAreStupid, on 06 October 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

HEY! I made my own signature. Plenty of material to go around.

Nice to meet you again...

[TheSteelRhino]

This thread is quite humorous. It just proves that some folks will cry no matter what

One of the biggest complaints against PGI was they didn't communicate or set correct expectations

Well, here they are giving a fair warning. Communicating and people are complaining, or worried that the game is failing. Enough whining. If you hate the game this much get lost. PGI is by no means perfect, and has irritated me repeatedly. Their comms have been poor or misleading in the past whether intentional or otherwise. (Here i am giving the credit for being transparent and honest for sure).
Having said l that that I still play because if I can accept that it has to be fun for more ppl than myself, it's a fun game.
And no I did not ever ask or consider a refund.

Some folks need to grow up and be reasonable. Otherwise take your ball and go home b/c you didn't score the winning TD (or if you cannot alpha 4 erppcs non stop anymore)

[Jack Gallows]

Nyden, on 06 October 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

I think this is nonsense. Why would someone posting in the forums want the game to fail? Wouldn't they choose to play a game they wanted to succeed instead?

Why post when they want the game to fail? To keep their voice heard and hope that it negatively impacts the moral of the game so people will stop playing it. I'd say there's people intentionally posting to make sure people see the worse aspects of MW:O and PGI in hopes that it won't get swept under the rug and forgotten. Some people just want the IP to move away from PGI so another company can make a Mechwarrior game, even if it takes another 10 years to get a shot.

I'm sure there's a different reason for each person who posts for and against the game, some might be more logical then the others but that's just how things work, unfortunately all you can do is try to be constructive in either direction as you can't really discount someone elses opinion without invalidating your own in the process.. Decent arguments on both sides just not everyone is able to remain objective. You'll have some people who just parrot what others say because they can't formulate their own opinions, and you'll have some that will actually make well structured posts to show their appreciation or dissatisfaction depending on how they feel.

The last example is important regardless if you agree with them or not. You can blow sunshine up someone's rear center torso all you want but that isn't always the best way to get things changed or help development. The opposite is true as well.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 06 October 2013 - 11:48 AM.

[New Day]

IqfishLP, on 06 October 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Nice to meet you again...

u2

[Imperius]

I just want lights forced to be scouts not raptors. ECM to be balanced or more actually useful counters added. Collisions and knockdowns. Oh and of course I want my clan mechs and the timeline shrunk.

[Gremlich Johns]

Jman5, on 06 October 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

but I take heart in the fact that their zombie-like brains will switch over to the "like" column once the people driving the hate-train decide the game is pretty good.

The game is not pretty good, it just happens to the better of any mecha game out there with the exception of MW:LL, which is not a company produced game.(and it has combined arms)

[Bront]

I just want to know when last call is on the Saber add on.