40 replies to this topic

[SpacePancakez]

So I've been one shot a couple times since I started playing a couple weeks ago and just had a game where I got two shot and about thirty minutes before that game, three shot in another. My best guess is that weapons blow up and do damage to your neighboring components (like ammo not in a CASE). So if you've got six weapons in your right torso, you're in a world of hurt if it gets blown up? Or am I completely wrong? Please help me understand this because it's rather infuriating when it happens, even if it's rare

[Saiyajin12]

Pretty sure that the only weapon that actually hurts your mech when blown up is the gauss rifle. For all the other weapons, only their ammo causes damage to your mech.

There are two layers of "armor" on your mech, first is the true armor, it's shown as the outer layer of your mech picture in the corner. Once that reaches red and gets hit some more, it will disappear and you are down to your internal armor for your mech, displayed in that mech picture as the sections incased by the outer armor. Only when down to your internals can your weapons and ammo even take dmg and be destroyed.

In your case you have to be a bit more specific for guesses to be made as of what actually happened. Maybe you got cockpit sniped? Rare but it happens. Which mech were you running? Did you have an XL engine and store ammo in your side torsos? Did you have really weak rear armor while running XL and lost a side from behind?

TL:DR As far as I know, only gauss rifle causes dmg upon exploding. All ammo but gauss ammo causes dmg when exploding without case. Case does nothing for XL engine builds. Nothing. To be safe, store ammo in: legs, head, and last arms.

[scJazz]

What mech are you using and what is the config?
Use Smurfy to tell us please.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

[Galen Crayn]

Its easy to onehit kill somebody with: Headshot or backshot. Headshot if you stand still too long (PPC and Gauss can do this easy) and backshot if you have not so much armor in the back (with dual ac20 for example its easy).

[Kenyon Burguess]

xl engine victim?

[Sagamore]

Depends on the mech you are piloting but no mech can withstand repeated punishment on the same hitbox. Generally you want to try and spread the damage over your mech if possible. After you shoot, twist so that return fire won't hit you square in the centre torso. High alpha builds can easily take out most mechs in 2 or 3 shots (maybe even 1 on a light if its a well placed side torso or head shot).

[Nuke and Glow]

My atlas has 6 srm x 3 i unloaded all of them at the same time once and got a one shot kill on a ilya muromets mech with full health on a backshot lol was pretty funny, not bad beings it is a heavy class mech .

[SpacePancakez]

scJazz, on 05 October 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

What mech are you using and what is the config?
Use Smurfy to tell us please.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

Been three shot with my HBK-4P (336 armor 75% front, 25% back, xl250 no ammo) and two shot in another game shortly after. Been one shot a couple times in the past on my JM6-DD (412 armor 75% front, 25% back, xl260 ammo stocked in side torso's both in case's) aswell. And when I mean three, two, one shot I mean going from full health to dead in a matter of seconds, if that. No time to torso twist or evade. Once I got shot from behind, the others all from the front. What's the deal with the xl engines though? I admit I do not know the difference between engine types ^^

[Redshift2k5]

Being killed by a "three shot" is certainly not a long shot. My Stalker has an alpha strike of 58 so it could certainly kill you in one shot, let alone the abiltiy to hit for two or three times that amount if I get two or three full alphas on a lone Hunchback.

A Hunchback with an XL engine is going to die a lot from side torso destruction. It has a very large side torso (the right one) which can be focused from nearly any angle. The Hunchback's REAR right torso is actually very small and many players will put upwards of 90% of their RT armor on the front. The sides, top, and even much of the back of the 'hunch' counts as front armor with only a sliver of rear RT on the back.

The REAR side armor on a stock Hunchback is a paltry 8 armor, If there is ammo in that side torso, it might take as little as 9 or 10 damage to cut the armor and crit the ammo! Even the rear CT is only 10 armor. A single volley of weapons fire from a Heavy mech can easily cleave off every point of armor from your whole back plus deal internal damage.

Protect your rear as much as possible; The best way to do this is map awareness and situational awareness. Keep safe by moving with your teammates, don't get caught alone, and learn places in the map where you may be the victim of a flank. When you can afford one, buy a Siesmic Sensor to watch your surroundings.

---

XL engines give you a LOT of weight; the downside is it takes 6 extra critical slots and losing a side torso result in instant destruction of the whole mech. Standard engines are much more reccomended for a Hunchback. A standard engine, Double Heatsinks, and Endosteel is much more survivable than an XL for a Hunchback.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 05 October 2013 - 05:38 PM.

[SpacePancakez]

Redshift2k5, on 05 October 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Being killed by a "three shot" is certainly not a long shot. My Stalker has an alpha strike of 58 so it could certainly kill you in one shot, let alone the abiltiy to hit for two or three times that amount if I get two or three full alphas on a lone Hunchback.

A Hunchback with an XL engine is going to die a lot from side torso destruction. It has a very large side torso (the right one) which can be focused from nearly any angle. The Hunchback's REAR right torso is actually very small and many players will put upwards of 90% of their RT armor on the front. The sides, top, and even much of the back of the 'hunch' counts as front armor with only a sliver of rear RT on the back.

The REAR side armor on a stock Hunchback is a paltry 8 armor, If there is ammo in that side torso, it might take as little as 9 or 10 damage to cut the armor and crit the ammo! Even the rear CT is only 10 armor. A single volley of weapons fire from a Heavy mech can easily cleave off every point of armor from your whole back plus deal internal damage.

Protect your rear as much as possible; The best way to do this is map awareness and situational awareness. Keep safe by moving with your teammates, don't get caught alone, and learn places in the map where you may be the victim of a flank. When you can afford one, buy a Siesmic Sensor to watch your surroundings.

---

XL engines give you a LOT of weight; the downside is it takes 6 extra critical slots and losing a side torso result in instant destruction of the whole mech. Standard engines are much more reccomended for a Hunchback. A standard engine, Double Heatsinks, and Endosteel is much more survivable than an XL for a Hunchback.

Oh wow I didn't realise that about the xl engines. I think I'll have to come up with some new builds when I get alot more cbills to get new std engines, double heat sinks and endosteel for the hunchback. Back to the grind I go! ^^

[aniviron]

SpacePancakez, on 05 October 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Been three shot with my HBK-4P (336 armor 75% front, 25% back, xl250 no ammo) and two shot in another game shortly after. Been one shot a couple times in the past on my JM6-DD (412 armor 75% front, 25% back, xl260 ammo stocked in side torso's both in case's) aswell. And when I mean three, two, one shot I mean going from full health to dead in a matter of seconds, if that. No time to torso twist or evade. Once I got shot from behind, the others all from the front. What's the deal with the xl engines though? I admit I do not know the difference between engine types ^^

An XL engine is a big risk, as you will note it extends from the center torso into the sides. If you have an XL engine and you lose your side torso, you die, the engine is blown up. As a longtime Hunchback pilot, I will recommend very strongly against running an XL in your Hunchie- everyone aims for the huge vulnerable hunch, and if you lose that side with an XL in it, you're dead instantly. I'd also strongly recommend setting your hunch's armor value to something like 45 front 3 back, as the "front" actually wraps all the way around the mech, and the rear is a tiny little square on its lower back. Since setting my HBKs up like this, I have never lost a hunch to a rear armor shot, and it makes for much better overall durability.

I don't pilot Jagers, but I will say you're quite vulnerable with an XL in those too. Jagers have pretty big side torsi, and it's usually pretty easy to look at your loadout and guess if you're running an XL or not (if there are three or four autocannons and you're not incredibly slow, then odds are very good that the Jager is XL). Side torsi have much less armor than the center, and it can take just a few hits from an ACA20 + lasers to get through one quickly if you're a good shot, which makes XLs very very risky.

I'm also going to add in that it's pretty unlikely you're dying to ammo explosions. Ammo only has a 10% chance to blow up when hit.

[SpacePancakez]

aniviron, on 05 October 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

An XL engine is a big risk, as you will note it extends from the center torso into the sides. If you have an XL engine and you lose your side torso, you die, the engine is blown up. As a longtime Hunchback pilot, I will recommend very strongly against running an XL in your Hunchie- everyone aims for the huge vulnerable hunch, and if you lose that side with an XL in it, you're dead instantly. I'd also strongly recommend setting your hunch's armor value to something like 45 front 3 back, as the "front" actually wraps all the way around the mech, and the rear is a tiny little square on its lower back. Since setting my HBKs up like this, I have never lost a hunch to a rear armor shot, and it makes for much better overall durability.

I don't pilot Jagers, but I will say you're quite vulnerable with an XL in those too. Jagers have pretty big side torsi, and it's usually pretty easy to look at your loadout and guess if you're running an XL or not (if there are three or four autocannons and you're not incredibly slow, then odds are very good that the Jager is XL). Side torsi have much less armor than the center, and it can take just a few hits from an ACA20 + lasers to get through one quickly if you're a good shot, which makes XLs very very risky.

I'm also going to add in that it's pretty unlikely you're dying to ammo explosions. Ammo only has a 10% chance to blow up when hit.

Going to put alot more armor on the front for my hunchback as you guys have recommended. I usually do very good on my jm6-dd so I think I'll keep the xl despite the risk. I run two ER large lasers and two AC5's. Is that a dead give away im using an xl you think?

[Alpha087]

It would help to know what you're piloting and what's in it.

I just know I've had a few situations where my gauss rifle has 'one-shot' Spiders several times. Also a situation where a gauss/ER-PPC combo took out a full health Raven in one blast.

If you're not in a light my guesses would be lack of armor on a specific component that houses ammo, a gauss rifle, and/or an XL engine. There's also getting shot in the cockpit though that's more rare. When you die it will, also tell you what it was that destroyed your mech. "Ammo Explosion", "Engine Destroyed", ect.

[Redshift2k5]

Many Jagermech builds do great with XL egines, because they can really maximize on the risk:reward by bringing so much raw DPS. Two ERLL and two AC5s sounds a little undergunned if you have an XL, though, do you have Double Heat sinks and Endosteel in there?

[Scurry]

Also note that CASE isn't going to help with ammo crits when you have an XL engine - it only stops the damage from the destroyed side torso from spreading elsewhere, but it will still kill you because of the xl engine side torso thing.

[SpacePancakez]

Redshift2k5, on 05 October 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

Many Jagermech builds do great with XL egines, because they can really maximize on the risk:reward by bringing so much raw DPS. Two ERLL and two AC5s sounds a little undergunned if you have an XL, though, do you have Double Heat sinks and Endosteel in there?

I've got double heat sinks but no endosteel. On the dps side, I tend to stay far from the fight and just snipe. On an average game I'll do about 400 dmg give or take. On a bad game I'll do 200. On a great game I've pushed nearly 800 so I'm not in a hurry to change weapon loadout. Might go back to two ac2's instead of two ac5's but I dunno. What do you recommend?

Scurry, on 05 October 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

Also note that CASE isn't going to help with ammo crits when you have an XL engine - it only stops the damage from the destroyed side torso from spreading elsewhere, but it will still kill you because of the xl engine side torso thing.

Ha! Hadn't thought of that yet, good call Taking them out now.

Edited by SpacePancakez, 05 October 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[Saiyajin12]

The only thing that gives away a jager having an xl is speed combined with seeing what weapons it carries and making an educated guess based off of that.

I also like running my jagers with xl engines since it ups their maneuverability and firepower, which if used right ups survivability as well. Fitting the same amount of firepower I'm used to running with a standard engine would usually leave me moving too slow for comfort.

[Redshift2k5]

SpacePancakez, on 05 October 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

I've got double heat sinks but no endosteel. On the dps side, I tend to stay far from the fight and just snipe. On an average game I'll do about 400 dmg give or take. On a bad game I'll do 200. On a great game I've pushed nearly 800 so I'm not in a hurry to change weapon loadout. Might go back to two ac2's instead of two ac5's but I dunno. What do you recommend?



Ha! Hadn't thought of that yet, good call Taking them out now.

If you like those weapons, that's fine! But if you have 14 or more free slots available and a little spare cash, Endo Steel offers an upgrade with no detrimental downside (if you have sufficient empty slots). Endo will give you back a few tons to spend, allowing for a heavier engine or just more ammo/heatsinks. Empty slots don't infer any advantage so adding Endo is a pretty advantageous upgrade all around.

[SpacePancakez]

Redshift2k5, on 05 October 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

If you like those weapons, that's fine! But if you have 14 or more free slots available and a little spare cash, Endo Steel offers an upgrade with no detrimental downside (if you have sufficient empty slots). Endo will give you back a few tons to spend, allowing for a heavier engine or just more ammo/heatsinks. Empty slots don't infer any advantage so adding Endo is a pretty advantageous upgrade all around.

Ok I'll get it when I have the cbills then! I have a question though is there an area in the loudout UI where I can see how many slots I have left? Or must I go through every component and count manually?

[aniviron]

SpacePancakez, on 05 October 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Going to put alot more armor on the front for my hunchback as you guys have recommended. I usually do very good on my jm6-dd so I think I'll keep the xl despite the risk. I run two ER large lasers and two AC5's. Is that a dead give away im using an xl you think?

It sounds like you're doing very well for yourself with your current build; that said, I wouldn't peg yours as an XL if I saw it, mostly because it doesn't pack much weight into weapons. If I saw your build in-game, I would assume you were running this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c6bd525da6dd1f9

However, I'm guessing you're actually running something closer to this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8b623182e4047bb

They're pretty much the same build, but one gets an additional 20kph in exchange for that side torso weakness. Sometimes that's worth it, sometimes that's not. Most players tend to be averse to an XL unless it's absolutely necessary for their build, but because yours can run a standard engine (and a pretty good one at that) I'd assume it was standard if I saw you ingame. That said, most people will not hesitate to tear off a side torso if you're opened up, so it's still a pretty big risk.