144 replies to this topic

[Blacksoul1987]

stjobe, on 09 October 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

FTFY, lights are no more nor any less deadly in packs than other 'mechs.

disagree you can run from an assault pack and always do. you can run from a heavy pack. never seen a medium pack, you CANNOT run from a light pack.

[Krivvan]

stjobe, on 09 October 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

FTFY, lights are no more nor any less deadly in packs than other 'mechs.

The deadliness of a light pack (and light mechs in general) is that they can choose whether they want to engage or not. If they're going to lose a fight, they can just leave. If they're going to win, the opponent can't get away without taking a ton of constant damage.

Of course it's a completely different game when it's a light pack versus a light pack. It's a lot more situational then, and is heavily determined by the composition of each light pack.

The problem in pug light packs is that you can't trust the rest of the pack to run away with you when needed. Frequently you'll realize that you need to run, but they stay behind and will die when alone. Sometimes it's even better to just stay in that crappy situation and get the most out of the light pack sticking together.

Bad light pilots tend to inhabit both extremes of light gameplay. They are either far too aggressive and have no idea when they need to run. Or they are far too passive and don't actually accomplish anything in a game.

Edited by Krivvan, 09 October 2013 - 05:04 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Blacksoul1987, on 09 October 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

disagree you can run from an assault pack and always do. you can run from a heavy pack. never seen a medium pack, you CANNOT run from a light pack.

Never seen a medium pack? We used to run these all the time...it was awesome. Pack at 110, with a mediums loadout and 4 guys to split the damage and not get focused down? Epic good fun

[-Muta-]

Alistair Winter, on 08 October 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Do you ever miss that feeling of dread when you see the most deadly battlemechs in the BT universe? Like that feeling when you're playing Doom 2 and you run into a Cyberdemon and all you can think is "Ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod, don't panic, don't panic, don't panic! Fear is the mindkiller!"

Even in WoW, I remember a slightly raised heart beat during the early days, when the game was still new and you ran into an enemy player with epic PvP gear and some kind of fearsome PvP title.

In MWO, there's none of that. You'll see a team with 7 assault mechs and they'll probably still only do 200 damage each. Two of them are stock green Champion mechs, running around shooting randomly at buildings and trees. The guy that ends up doing top damage is a Spider with a PPC.

Of course, I'm a big advocate of equally powerful mech classes, as long as everyone is free to choose any mech without consequences. You'll often see me on the forum, arguing that light mechs and medium mechs need a buff. But in my heart of hearts, I wish certain assault mechs were just death incarnate, to the point where a whole team would panic at the mere sight of them. And I'm not just talking about assault mechs being powerful, but also the sense of dread when you know that they are probably piloted by some of the best pilots in the game.

We'll still have that with CW, I guess. Some merc companies will get a reputation for their skill. And anyone who's a member of the Wolf's Dragoons is going to be a big deal. But I still want to bump into an Atlas on the battlefield and just gasp "MY GOD!"

TL;DR - Blah, blah, nostalgia. Games were so much better when I was young. Since Wolfenstein, FPS games just aren't what they used to be.

Hahaha I remember wolfenstein and I remember when I had one of the best PCs around in my hood because I had 512 Mb of RAM.

[Bounty Dogg]

Alistair Winter, on 08 October 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Do you ever miss that feeling of dread when you see the most deadly battlemechs in the BT universe? Like that feeling when you're playing Doom 2 and you run into a Cyberdemon and all you can think is "Ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod, don't panic, don't panic, don't panic! Fear is the mindkiller!"

Even in WoW, I remember a slightly raised heart beat during the early days, when the game was still new and you ran into an enemy player with epic PvP gear and some kind of fearsome PvP title.

In MWO, there's none of that. You'll see a team with 7 assault mechs and they'll probably still only do 200 damage each. Two of them are stock green Champion mechs, running around shooting randomly at buildings and trees. The guy that ends up doing top damage is a Spider with a PPC.

Of course, I'm a big advocate of equally powerful mech classes, as long as everyone is free to choose any mech without consequences. You'll often see me on the forum, arguing that light mechs and medium mechs need a buff. But in my heart of hearts, I wish certain assault mechs were just death incarnate, to the point where a whole team would panic at the mere sight of them. And I'm not just talking about assault mechs being powerful, but also the sense of dread when you know that they are probably piloted by some of the best pilots in the game.

We'll still have that with CW, I guess. Some merc companies will get a reputation for their skill. And anyone who's a member of the Wolf's Dragoons is going to be a big deal. But I still want to bump into an Atlas on the battlefield and just gasp "MY GOD!"

TL;DR - Blah, blah, nostalgia. Games were so much better when I was young. Since Wolfenstein, FPS games just aren't what they used to be.

Like facing the TRUE horror of the Flood in Halo for the first time......

[DaZur]

FupDup, on 08 October 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

A big part of it is because there's just so many of them everywhere. Assaults here are practically standard infantry around here in MWO.

In fairness... While I agree with you, any attempts to impede, limit or dictate what mech a player could potentially have access to would be met with copious wails if indignation....

[Kaox Veed]

I never play anything heavier than an Awesome and I typically turn around and go the other direction when I see an Atlas. Well unless I also have an Atlas with me.

[D1al T0ne]

I only get that "Oh {Scrap}" feeling very rarely in MWO. In fact, the only situation I can remember where I went "Oh ****, I can't fight that" are the few times I've encountered a Streaktaro in my Jenner. Otherwise, there's very little fear factor in this game.

I get that "Oh ****" feeling in World of Tanks when I come around a corner in a Tier 7 tank and I'm staring down the barrel of a Tier 10 tank, but there's no such feeling in MWO.

If I come around a corner in my Jenner F and I see an Atlas all by itself, I just clap my hands together and say "JOYYYY!" while I proceed to dance around his slow clumsy weapons and punch holes in him. No fear whatsoever unless they are just an outstanding pilot, and outstanding assault pilots are fairly rare.

A medium laser is a medium laser. It damages an assault mech just as much as a light mech. If I can hurt it, then I'm not afraid of it.

[Escef]

Blacksoul1987, on 09 October 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

disagree you can run from an assault pack and always do. you can run from a heavy pack. never seen a medium pack, you CANNOT run from a light pack.

http://youtu.be/oiCCqCcoXGQ

Edited by Escef, 09 October 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[stjobe]

Blacksoul1987, on 09 October 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

disagree you can run from an assault pack and always do. you can run from a heavy pack. never seen a medium pack, you CANNOT run from a light pack.

Nobody can outrun a Gauss Rifle slug.

[AC]

I wish that there was a ranking system that would unlock heavier chasis for purchase as you progressed. This would eliminate the noob+atlas combo that is a common scenario, plus it would create a large sense of accomplishment as you unlock each new tier of mech. It would also give the grind a purpose.

[zhajin]

I get that feeling when I see trial AS7-RS(c)'s on my own team...

[zhajin]

AC, on 09 October 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

I wish that there was a ranking system that would unlock heavier chasis for purchase as you progressed. This would eliminate the noob+atlas combo that is a common scenario, plus it would create a large sense of accomplishment as you unlock each new tier of mech. It would also give the grind a purpose.

I would like to see some limitations on "BV". R&R was suppose to be that system, now we have nothing and most mechs are lights running xls or assaults.

[NRP]

DaZur, on 09 October 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

In fairness... While I agree with you, any attempts to impede, limit or dictate what mech a player could potentially have access to would be met with copious wails if indignation....

And rightfully so.

[Escef]

AC, on 09 October 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

I wish that there was a ranking system that would unlock heavier chasis for purchase as you progressed. This would eliminate the noob+atlas combo that is a common scenario, plus it would create a large sense of accomplishment as you unlock each new tier of mech. It would also give the grind a purpose.

The thing is that the most new player friendly mechs are heavies and assaults. It is easier to rack up c-bills, damage, kills, and assists in one than mediums or lights.

In fact, mediums are largely thought of as "hard mode" in this game. Mostly because a large number of them were designed as pocket heavies, and therefor pack firepower at the expense of speed, but don't have the armor to deal with the big boys. I expect the Shadowhawk, Wolverine, and Griffin to change this slightly, but I think what we really need are the Clint, Assassin, and Phoenix Hawk/Chameleon. Y'know, mechs that actually showcase the speed and firepower expected of mediums.

Edited by Escef, 09 October 2013 - 07:20 AM.

[Krivvan]

AC, on 09 October 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

I wish that there was a ranking system that would unlock heavier chasis for purchase as you progressed. This would eliminate the noob+atlas combo that is a common scenario, plus it would create a large sense of accomplishment as you unlock each new tier of mech. It would also give the grind a purpose.

Light mechs have the highest (or second highest depending on who you ask) skill floor. They're actually a terrible mech for a player to start with simply because they are entirely ineffective until you get to a certain point with them.

[stjobe]

AC, on 09 October 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

I wish that there was a ranking system that would unlock heavier chasis for purchase as you progressed. This would eliminate the noob+atlas combo that is a common scenario, plus it would create a large sense of accomplishment as you unlock each new tier of mech. It would also give the grind a purpose.

It's arguably harder for a new player to be forced into a light than into an assault - they'll live a bit longer in the assault if nothing else. And you'd probably lose a lot of players if they couldn't just jump into their favourite heavy/assault and start blasting.

[DaZur]

NRP, on 09 October 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

And rightfully so.

Don't think access to them should be limited in the least... My bigger issue is the the mitigated operational cost post removal of R&R...

R&R was flawed, particularly in the light of premium bonuses creating the "haves" and "have nots". That said, I'm seriously hoping there is some aspect of CW that levies some tariff on maintenance to reinvigorate cost of ownership...

If everyone can own the biggest gun for a nickle and a gum-wrapper... and run it with top-tier accoutrements with absolute impunity and callousness... what the point of running anything else?

[Alistair Winter]

DaZur, on 09 October 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

Don't think access to them should be limited in the least... My bigger issue is the the mitigated operational cost post removal of R&R...
R&R was flawed, particularly in the light of premium bonuses creating the "haves" and "have nots". That said, I'm seriously hoping there is some aspect of CW that levies some tariff on maintenance to reinvigorate cost of ownership...
If everyone can own the biggest gun for a nickle and a gum-wrapper... and run it with top-tier accoutrements with absolute impunity and callousness... what the point of running anything else?

Exactly, it's just a new version of the "haves" and "have nots". You still have to play quite a few matches to afford a top tier mech with upgrades, and I'm not sure new players have a greater income now, per hour of gameplay, than when R&R was implemented. With CW being introduced, the game will be better, but the income per hour of gameplay will drop again, unless PGI does something.

[Wolfways]

18 Inches of Hard Steel, on 09 October 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

of course if you outnumber a target it wont be scary. pugging now your likely to be the only light on your team...

I think this must depend on your ELO or something. I only PUG and for the past few days i've been working up Commando's and on average my matches have 4-6 lights/team. One game today we even had 8 on my team, and i think i've been the only light once.