32 replies to this topic

[Squid von Torgar]

Its been months now since Paul "Normalised" Pulse lasers. I was of the understanding that this was something that was done to enable further balancing.

PLs are a rarity, you don't need data tracking to see that. The LPL is totally under used and with reason. Short range, high heat, sluggish RoF. No wonder people don't use it there are simply better options.

The med pulse laser isnt much better. Only the SPL seems ok,

Given the amount of time, plus that making changes to the stats isnt a hugely time consuming task, when can we expect to see a little thought and loving for the LPL.

Really the PLs should be the brawler laser of choice. Currently they are simply outclassed by normal lasers in this role.

Any news please?

[John MatriX82]

A good way to balance them could be lowering their weight to
-6 Tons for LPLs
-1.5 for MPLs
-0,75t for SPLs

But they want to keep TT weights, so they'll always be a nuisance to be used on lights (because normal lasers are better, weight less and give you more range) and on anything else their heat burden is usually too much to let them shine, so I guess that pulse lasers for PGI are working as intended since they are naturally nerfed. The next nerf round will probably interest Autocannons imho.

[Squid von Torgar]

I think the weights are ok, but they either need to shorted the rate of fire (like halve it) or increase the damage.

Pulse lasers should be nasty in close. High burst damage at the cost of heat. They should shred mechs unlucky enough to get into their kill zone but not be able to sustain fire.

At the moment they are pretty much just high heat and slightly more damage lasers that aren't worth taking.

Regardless they are well overdue a buff. Lets introduce another weapon that has its quirks and works well in a limited capacity (Like Gauss).

Edited by Squid von Torgar, 09 October 2013 - 03:28 AM.

[MonkeyDCecil]

All they have to do is increase the range of all of them by 50m. 140 for SPL, 230 for MPl, and 350 for LPL. Doing this will make them more competitive. And Maybe lower the Beam duration. Range and beam duration. But I dont think PGI will do anything.

[New Day]

inb4


Soon^TM

[Lootee]

Probably never.

Medium Pulse were never really an issue because only the AWS-8Q could boat them due to their weight and they still have terrible range. But they got nerfed by extra heat anyway due to medium lasers being boated.

Yeah WTF is the proper expression to use in this case. One weapon is being abused so lets nerf it plus this other weapon that no one really uses along with it.

So now you got 3 MPLs that make as much heat as an ERPPC, weighs almost as much as an ERPPC, has 1/5th the range of an ERPPC, take up 3 times as many energy hardpoints as an ERPPC. For that kind of heat and weight give me the useful-at-any-range instant damage weapon any day.

If MPL were only 4 heat like they are supposed to be, they might be less {Scrap} compared to the alternative weapons you could mount instead.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 09 October 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

The issues is that they have the same exact firing mechanic as standard beam lasers

Pulse Lasers will NEVER be good until they give them a unique firing mechanic.
( Kinda like giving them an upfront high continous rate of fire deal. Laser Machineguns, like they are described in canon )

Edited by mwhighlander, 09 October 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[Zyllos]

The way I view it, Pulse Lasers had a couple of drawbacks with some benefit in the TT:

Benefit:

• +2 To Hit
  
• Higher Damage

Drawback:

• Heavier
  
• Shorter Range
  
• Hotter

The +2 To Hit is a huge benefit in TT. The issue with MWO is that this is a free aiming game. Reducing the beam duration just makes the damage of the weapon quicker, but it doesn't actually make it any more accurate. I would basically make this act like "+0.5 To Hit". In that light, I think a drawback needs to be removed.

Tonnage of something is pretty much set in stone, for obvious reasons. The shorter range is something to look at but I think the idea of shorter range makes the Pulse Laser different, especially once you compare them with other T2 tech, like ER Lasers. So the only thing that leaves is heat, which is used to control how much damage a player can do with these weapons at one time.

Personally, I would modify the drawbacks/benefits to read like this for MWO:

Benefit:

• Shorter Beam Duration
  
• Higher Damage

Drawback:

• Heavier
  
• Shorter Range

When you begin to see the differences between equipped ER Lasers of the same type, the only example we have now is the ER Large Laser and Large Pulse Laser, when sitting besides the normal Large Laser, I think you will begin to see that the Large Laser will feel more like T1 tech but not just be completely outclassed.

To keep with PGI's idea that newer tech shouldn't invalidate older tech, I think the best way to do this is make newer tech be better equipped for a different role where older tech is just generalized.

Going from a Medium Laser to a Medium Pulse Laser, you would see that you can equip less of them, but their damage is much more focused and slightly harder hitting at shorter range. This would mean that Medium Pulse Laser is basically superior at shorter ranges over Medium Lasers. Once ER Medium Lasers comes, the balance should shift the other way, with ER Medium Lasers being superior at longer ranges over the Medium Laser. But inbetween the ER and Pulse Laser ranges, the regular laser will end up being better.

mwhighlander, on 09 October 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

The issues is that they have the same exact firing mechanic as standard beam lasers

Pulse Lasers will NEVER be good until they give them a unique firing mechanic. ( Kinda like giving them an upfront high continous rate of fire deal. Laser Machineguns, like they are described in canon )

I would be fine with a unique mechanic. But the problem with machine gun lasers is that equipping multiples would be odd and would make controlling heat by chain firing impossible.

[Artgathan]

Making them laser machine guns will hurt their viability in brawls (where they are needed most) because in order to be effective with an MG you need to remain facing the target, which means you can't torso twist.

Perhaps if they had a mechanism where they charge while not in use. When fully charge, the first shot fired does full damage, and then you can hold down the trigger for a lighter "stream" of damage that does high DPS.

[Lootee]

I'd be ok with a small cone of fire for pulse lasers if they increased the number of pulses and pulse rate.

That would simulate the -2 bonus to hit because you can spray laser fire at the target and score hits easier than normal lasers.

Make it into a laser machinegun like the tech manuals describe them.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 09 October 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[KhanHeir]

Zyllos, on 09 October 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

+2 comes from the fact the weapon is not a burst and recycle type. It's a continuous fire weapon, either in a never ending beam or in rapid succession.


I figured the numbskulls would have figured this out by now, but then again CW, Timeline, UI 2.0, Role warfare, Dropship, information warfrae and clans!

[Livewyr]

If they shortened the beam time, and upped the RoF a bit, they'd be good.

[Zyllos]

Artgathan, on 09 October 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Making them laser machine guns will hurt their viability in brawls (where they are needed most) because in order to be effective with an MG you need to remain facing the target, which means you can't torso twist.

Perhaps if they had a mechanism where they charge while not in use. When fully charge, the first shot fired does full damage, and then you can hold down the trigger for a lighter "stream" of damage that does high DPS.

Well, technically, looking at your target shouldn't mean your playing bad. That is a whole can of worms that PGI needs to fix.

The basic idea should be that you look at your enemy to fire and you look away to control where damage comes in. But it should be that if your not looking at your enemy, your not dealing damage. The issue with that is that there are weapons and builds that emphasize the torso twist meta while pin point accuracy exacerbates the problem, making it where facing your target is considered a sign of a bad player. Since when is MechWarrior been about not facing your target and firing weapons?

This is limiting the viability of many weapons (the ones that deal good DPS) while procreating the torso twist meta and those weapons that help in that respect. It is also leading to mechs mostly only taking CT damage, making focused fire much more deadlier than it should be.

Edited by Zyllos, 09 October 2013 - 06:26 AM.

[KhanHeir]

Zyllos, on 09 October 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Why did you even respond to that ignoramus, his idea was on the level of gauss charge for god sakes.

Pulse lasers are constant DPS weapons, end of discussion.

[Wispsy]

Let me use 6medpls on my Jenner again I miss my 1shot headshots heat tooooo strong

[KhanHeir]

Wispsy, on 09 October 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Let me use 6medpls on my Jenner again I miss my 1shot headshots heat tooooo strong

As mythical as the 3 second jenners guys.

[Kaspirikay]

Really i think pulse lasers are fine, just reduce the heat.

[KhanHeir]

Kaspirikay, on 09 October 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

Really i think pulse lasers are fine, just reduce the heat.

Edited by KhanHeir, 09 October 2013 - 06:46 AM.

[Shadey99]

Zyllos, on 09 October 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

So the only thing that leaves is heat, which is used to control how much damage a player can do with these weapons at one time.

The small boost to heat over the normal versions is magnified by the difference in fire rate from TT to MWO. So what is normal a 25% increase in heat over a period of time, becomes 50-75% of an increase in heat generated.

[Ngamok]

LPLs are actually pretty good for legging lights.