80 replies to this topic

[Peter Thorndyke IV]

pbiggz, on 14 October 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

The #1 draw back of omnis is that their internals cannot be modified, this means that you are locked to a specific speed, you have a specific armor value, and a set of heat sinks you cannot remove.
....
(I hope they do it right, but obviously i have some doubts about their competence when it comes to this.)
No mech, no matter how big, can ever outgun a direwolf. but because it's an omnimech, it wont move faster then 54 kph, ever. That's the drawback. People are taking engine mods for granted, and they wont notice how important that is to custom builds until omnimech restrictions!

I am as always overwhelmed, by the stunning logic.
The inner Sphere Mechs *

* By no means modifiable, (no weapons, no internals, no engine, no armor), if you are not willing to pay more or less tenfold of the mechs worth to make it happen.

Will be more versatile then Clan Omni Mechs, **

** Because the Omni has his Engine and gyro not in an omni pod . .

Probably I missed it, but where is the difference that makes the one Engine immovable, and the other removable ?

[Vanguard319]

Taemien, on 14 October 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Out of the three, the only competitive mech will probably be the Thor. A decently armored 70 tonner with an alright speed and JJ will do fine in MWO. The Uller will have some issues simply because its too slow. It also has a wide squat stance that lends it to being a weaponfire magnet. The Loki is going to have it worse, it will have light armor, a wide frame, and the only saving grace will be that it mounts ECM. I've never seen the Loki do well in any game its been in, be in MechWarrior and all its iterations its appeared in (MW2, MW4, MWLL), MechCommander, or even TT (seen a stock JR7-D solo a Loki in two turns, on that note, the Vulture isn't much better, I've seen a Centurion kill it in one turn, though it had RACs so in theory, it had better tech lol).

I had a Loki in MW4 that I did very well with, stripped all the weapons off save for 2 cERPPCs and ECM, then maxed out the engine. I once fought a Daishi and Madcat mk II 2 to 1, and after an hour long match won without a single loss. just kept running away and coring them from out of their most effective range. was great for hit-and-run fighting.

[dal10]

Peter Thorndyke IV, on 14 October 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

I am as always overwhelmed, by the stunning logic.
The inner Sphere Mechs *

* By no means modifiable, (no weapons, no internals, no engine, no armor), if you are not willing to pay more or less tenfold of the mechs worth to make it happen.

Will be more versatile then Clan Omni Mechs, **

** Because the Omni has his Engine and gyro not in an omni pod . .

Probably I missed it, but where is the difference that makes the one Engine immovable, and the other removable ?

you can change the engine and other non removable stuff in an omni. It just ceases to be an omni if you do.

[pbiggz]

The rule that it ceases to be an omni and reverts to a battlemech with hard points takes way to much complex coding. Were talking about pgi here, so they'll likely say you simply cannot touch the mounted engine, armor, heatsinks, and other internals at all. All you can do with an omni is fit whatever you can in those omni pods (and that's alot mind you).

[dal10]

look on the bright side, you should have seen the house rules i played under (my gm, not me made them) in my TT games to balance out omnis. Omni pods counted as external weapons (makes sense if you think about it). So the rule was that if you beat the to hit roll by 5 or more (if you had to roll an 8 or higher to hit it wasn't possible) you got to roll again to see if you shot the omnipod off. the only time this didn't happen was if you were running the prime configuration. This was because it was originally designed with the prime in mind so the pods fitted better. this could happen with any weapon that dealt damage, including the machine gun. one guy in a piranha had fun with this in a clans campaign...

and to roll it back a little bit. any shot that took off the pod didn't damage the armor, cause the omni pods were outside the armor.

and yes this is a modified direwolf chassis, it is not technically an omni mech but it is just an example.

dire wolf

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 23,738,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 3,367

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
2 HAG-40s
2 ER PPCs
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 152 points 10.00
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 300 9.50
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 19(38) 9.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 280 17.50
CASE Locations: LA, RA 0.00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 31 44
Center Torso (rear) 11
L/R Torso 21 31
L/R Torso (rear) 11
L/R Arm 17 29
L/R Leg 21 37

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC RT 15 2 6.00
ER PPC LT 15 2 6.00
HAG-40 RA 8 10 16.00
HAG-40 LA 8 10 16.00
@HAG-40 (6) RT - 2 2.00
@HAG-40 (6) LT - 2 2.00
Free Critical Slots: 5

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 9 Points: 34
3 8 7 7 0 4 0 Structure: 5
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, FLK 5/4/4

it was to stop builds like this one.... people used less 3-4 giant weapons and more 1-2 large and rest medium/small weapons.

Edited by dal10, 15 October 2013 - 06:33 AM.

[pbiggz]

That starts to go into clan weaponry, and I have no idea how PGI is going to do it, though i'm fairly certain they will be deviating from TT values (I hope) because they are just plain game breaking.

[BeardedGlass]

Everything was fine, but then the Fire Nation attacked.

[RolfS]

CapperDeluxe, on 14 October 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

If you mean the Stock/Primary variants, then yes they would be mostly terrible in MWO because even the stock IS variants are also terrible. A fully customized mech is the only thing that really matters in MWO.

I guess what I'm saying is the poll is pointless, a customized mech will almost nearly 100% always be better than those stock loadouts in MWO regardless of IS or Clan, because they were made for the boardgame which has different values.

Yeah then why not fix MWO? See thats he point of this poll. If Jade Falcon can't conquer lyran commonwealth with these three configs there is something very wrong with the game balance..
These mechs are what Jade Falcon are supposed to be using to conquer parts of lyran commonwealth.
I have never seen anyone play a victor or highlander with 2xPPC (close to single clan ER PPC) one lb-10X and one Lrm launcher. Why don't you try and tell me if it works? If MWO was like battletech players would not be using 4xAC5 cataphracts...

[Taemien]

Vanguard319, on 15 October 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

I had a Loki in MW4 that I did very well with, stripped all the weapons off save for 2 cERPPCs and ECM, then maxed out the engine. I once fought a Daishi and Madcat mk II 2 to 1, and after an hour long match won without a single loss. just kept running away and coring them from out of their most effective range. was great for hit-and-run fighting.

They were 'passable' in MW4 for the same reason the Argus was. You had two decent hardpoints on a fast chassis (think a bigger Chimera). But their biggest asset was that no one used them, so in certain planetary leagues with simulated economies, some clans could buy tons of them for cheap since everyone else was selling them.

I wouldn't use them in ladder based games though. Thanatos and Madcat were simply better for that (course you wouldn't catch me dead in a Madcat).

[pbiggz]

http://mwomercs.com/...-another-issue/

I made a thread on the topic of Omnimechs and clan equipment. There's also a little blurb about how they might possibly fix or discourage cheese high alpha boating builds on omnimechs.

[Ashnod]

the prime config of the summoner only has one ton of lbx ammo(scatter by default in order to exploit openings from the PPC), and two tons of LRM ammo..

Out of the three clan mech's I personally believe the hellbringer would have the best chance due to the overwhelming amount of weapons(as well as twin clan ER PPC's which deal the same damage as the IS Gauss), and its electronic package (ECM/Probe/Targeting Computer) and it also doesn't suffer from the Summoner's ammunition problems.

Edited by Ashnod, 18 October 2013 - 06:30 PM.

[Aethon]

I would love to have a Hellbringer; it is a beautiful piece of Hell's Horses engineering.

That said, I would never use the stock configuration, although it is closer to useful than the other mechs you listed, in MWO. MWO, unfortunately, is not Battletech.

Edited by Aethon, 23 October 2013 - 08:42 PM.

[Taelon Zero]

I actualy like clan stock mechs, unlike the IS rubbish. My Nova is gona suck with MWO, but the Hellbringer and Sommoner should still be great fun

[pbiggz]

Summoner could use some optimizing. Hellbringer though should be pretty solid.

Knock off the machine guns for more heatsinks or pulse lasers and you should be golden.

Also nova in canon was supposed to only barely be able to handle firing its weapons. You can fire 6 medium lasers without ghost heat, so firing half of your twelve, waiting, then firing the other half shouldn't be too bad. Honestly ghost heat only really punishes ppcs and maybe large lasers, its not that bad otherwise.

[CyclonerM]

pbiggz, on 24 October 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

Summoner could use some optimizing. Hellbringer though should be pretty solid.

Knock off the machine guns for more heatsinks or pulse lasers and you should be golden.

Also nova in canon was supposed to only barely be able to handle firing its weapons. You can fire 6 medium lasers without ghost heat, so firing half of your twelve, waiting, then firing the other half shouldn't be too bad. Honestly ghost heat only really punishes ppcs and maybe large lasers, its not that bad otherwise.

What if they adjust Ghost Heat to Clan weapons?

[pbiggz]

Wouldn't matter for the summoner, its only got single weapons anyway. However its prime variant lacks the punch of some more optimized variants we see in comp play today. A generalist build is great for pug play but on a team you want to bring something very specific to the field to compliment your teammate's load outs. Also if LBX AC10s suck now, clan LBX will suck with slightly more damage. Slightly...

[101011]

CyclonerM, on 24 October 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

What if they adjust Ghost Heat to Clan weapons?

It'd probably be more strict, even though it would be ridiculous. Only 1 ERPPC, 1 LL...let's hope not.

[pbiggz]

If weapons aren't brokenly OP then having the same ghost heat limitations as IS weapons would be fine, but who knows what pgi will do.

[Racklesnack]

Ummm Jupiter wants a word with you... http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jupiter

[pbiggz]

He's a meanie, but hes over 20 years in the future, 3068 is a long way off.

Edited by pbiggz, 25 October 2013 - 01:40 PM.