104 replies to this topic

[Fajther]

The locust is about to become the fastest mech in the game. (169 kph) The armor is so light it doesn't matter if you have an xl engine. Get a 190xl and kick ***. Really. After an hour of playing one I think that it could be a cool contribution to the game. Pick the one with your favorite weapon type. There is one for everybody. The 10 heat sink rule has been there since the start of battletech. I don't see any reason given my experience the last hour that tells me we should change it yet. Lets give it a week and see what happens.

Edited by Fajther, 15 October 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

Yes Please remove the need for 10 heatsinks for the flea locust and commando

[Gwydion Ward]

Fajther, on 15 October 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

The locust is about to become the fastest mech in the game. (169 kph) The armor is so light it doesn't matter if you have an xl engine. Get a 190xl and kick ***. Really. After an hour of playing one I think that it could be a cool contribution to the game. Pick the one with your favorite weapon type. There is one for everybody. The 10 heat sink rule has been there since the start of battletech. I don't see any reason given my experience the last hour that tells me we should change it yet. Lets give it a week and see what happens.

'fast' dosnt really do you any good, if you dont even have the firepower to do anything about a commando. Or the 'scout' capabilities to make any meaningful contribution to your team.

About all it can do at the moment 'scout' wise, is run along the outer edge of the map, point a TAG at an enemy mech from behind.. and be a 'targeting' bot for the rest of the team.

MonkeyCheese, on 15 October 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Yes Please remove the need for 10 heatsinks for the flea locust and commando

Again, im not asking for a 'total' removal. Just the reduction of 1 or 2 to give the Locust a 'bit' more flexibility.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I was thinking of running something like this: LCT-1V

Now we need MG ammo in 1/2 tons, and shave some armor off the head maybe to fit.

[wintersborn]

Even the 190XL requires too many heatsinks.

[Gwydion Ward]

Praetor Shepard, on 15 October 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

Now we need MG ammo in 1/2 tons,

Even that would also be a huge help.

Edited by Rhapsody Repine, 15 October 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[Gaan Cathal]

MonkeyCheese, on 15 October 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Yes Please remove the need for 10 heatsinks for the flea locust and commando

Remove it full stop. It doesn't actually do anything useful, except punish small engines disproportionately. I don't know what reason there was for external-crit-eating heatsinks below certain engine sizes in TT, but there is no apparent reason for them to be required of a mech in MW:O.

This is especially true since only engine-inclusive HS are 2.0 if you use a DHS upgrade. Ergo if a Locust and a Jenner both have the 1.5M DHS upgrade, and 10 sinks, the Jenner has 20 EHS whilst the Locust has at most 18.2 EHS. There's no reason for that at all, so not only is the Locust forced to spend crits on sinks it likely has absolutely no need for, but it gets ****** sinks to boot.

Rhapsody Repine, on 15 October 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

Again, im not asking for a 'total' removal. Just the reduction of 1 or 2 to give the Locust a 'bit' more flexibility.

Well, you should be. It's not just the Locust that has this issue (Commando, and the incoming Flea also default to sub-10HS engines, IIRC). It's not a problem with the Locust, it's a problem the Locust is symptomatic of.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 15 October 2013 - 03:19 PM.

[MuFasa]

Jakob Knight, on 15 October 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

... remember the Locust is not a combat unit. It is not supposed to be facing off against other battlemechs but scouting and other 'soft target' objectives. Taking it into combat is at the risk of the pilot and with full knowledge they are not using the mech for what it is designed for.

This would be dead on with one exception. Combat IS all there is. There are no rewards for "role warfare" the rewards both cash and xp are based on damage. Running a 20 ton mech should be hard mode, but when you have to put in your engine, and then add 20% of your total tonnage just to meet a minimum requirement for heat sinks, is simply starting to ask too much.

Now listen I don't claim to be all knowing. I honestly don't know what the answer to this one is. But there has to be one that makes it equitable and balanced. But just looking at it "from the outside" something is wrong.

[Gwydion Ward]

Gaan Cathal, on 15 October 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Well, you should be. It's not just the Locust that has this issue (Commando, and the incoming Flea also default to sub-10HS engines, IIRC). It's not a problem with the Locust, it's a problem the Locust is symptomatic of.

The thing is.. Even with the HS requirement on the Commando's. you can STILL outfit it decently well. My Death's Knell has 4x MPL's on it with a Standard engine for cripes sakes. It can do that because of the extra tonage it has by default over the Locust.

Yet, the Locust i have.. can 'barely' manage 4 MG's of all things? Weapons that weigh just 0.5 tons. And i had to strip armor off + use an XL engine just do to that much.

Im assuming the Requirement for Heatsinks is there mostly for a Balance issue, and not for any love of the LORE of BT. Which is why im asking for a 'slight' decrease on this one specific mech. Rather than a 100% removal of the annoying requirement.

Edited by Rhapsody Repine, 15 October 2013 - 03:29 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

Mr. Fusion Reactor says:

I want 10 heat sinks. Deal with it.

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 15 October 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[IridiumFox]

Jakob Knight, on 15 October 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Lastly, remember the Locust is not a combat unit. It is not supposed to be facing off against other battlemechs but scouting and other 'soft target' objectives. Taking it into combat is at the risk of the pilot and with full knowledge they are not using the mech for what it is designed for.

And there in lies the problem.

This mech is built for a role that isn't really catered for and is poorly rewarded in the current version of the game and is forced by default to engage the enemys line much sooner than any scout realistically should.so until "scounting" is rewarded equally as the other styles then lighter mechs are going to suffer poorly in the meat grinder.

And unlike the other lights the locust has no gimmicks, reduced mobility, and has few options in heavyassault:online

This is one of the rare occasions I think a version of the LCT should have been PGI's own design just to give the chassis some flexibility. ie a 20 ton elint/ew mech ala Raven or heck give it a bloody camo net and a decent radio light scouts use in World of Tanks!!

Edited by Xotor, 15 October 2013 - 03:38 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

I would seriously run this as a sniper scout if the heatsinks let me
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7fb178fe4f7860a


Anyway (ignoring the current lag/hit problems) now that the Spider 5k has had an engine boost it can do the LL 4MG build better than the locust thanks to the fact that the spider 5k has jumpjets and pivoting arms.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8e6bce3297e123a

[Xanquil]

The issue isn't the fact that you have to use space for those extra heatsinks, it is the fact SHS and DHS outside of the engine suck. The crit space "tax" is there for a reason, it is a balance mechanic. Also the 10 heatsinks you are required to have do not actually weigh anything. The other issue is speed is king in MW:O. Armor doesn't help as much as it does in TT because of pinpoint weapons. So yes the Locust has issues but no more than what it always had, plus MW:Os standard problems.

[Gwydion Ward]

Xanquil, on 15 October 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Also the 10 heatsinks you are required to have do not actually weigh anything.

Funny... as when i add or remove those 4 'extra' heatsinks im REQUIRED to have... i can see my total tonnage go up or down by that 1 ton that each heatsink weighs.

These 'extra' heatsinks are NOT the ones you see on XL200+ engines. that are 'automatically' added to your mech as 'engine' slots that automatically fill up x# of slots in your side torso's, and counted as part of the total weight of your Engine.

These are 4 'extra' (litterally extra) Heatsinks we must ADD to our mec's (if anyone uses the XL160 like i do). That takes away an 'additional' 4 tons beyond what the XL Engine itself uses.

Edited by Rhapsody Repine, 15 October 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[FupDup]

Xanquil, on 15 October 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

...The crit space "tax" is there for a reason, it is a balance mechanic. ...

Would Locusts and Commandos be overpowered without the tax?

Edited by FupDup, 15 October 2013 - 04:16 PM.

[Solidussnake]

Not a fan of the locust having to use tonnage on heatsinks to meet the 10 requirement.

[Deathlike]

This Commando engine boost helps immensely, despite what people think.

Locust is still SOL.

Edited by Deathlike, 15 October 2013 - 04:27 PM.

[Gwydion Ward]

FupDup, on 15 October 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Would Locusts and Commandos be overpowered without the tax?

If their scared of people makeing QUAD PPC, or QUAD ERLL Commando's... then limit the number of SLOTS.. dont enforce a 'additional' Heatsink/Weight limit on an already stressed for weight chassis such as the Locust.

*quick edit*

Actually tried this with my Death's Knell. I can put 3 LL's on it as long as i use standard HS's and both Armor/Structure mods.. with the smallest 'standard' engion (giving me 86kph) + the required 6 heatsinks.

If they dont want lights useing 'heavy firepower'.. Then limit the number of slots in the 'weapon' sections of the mech, dont force us to give up 'tons' in order to fit a Square-shaped Balance technique into a Round-shaped Mech.

Edited by Rhapsody Repine, 15 October 2013 - 04:41 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

Rhapsody Repine, on 15 October 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

If their scared of people makeing QUAD PPC, or QUAD ERLL Commando's... then limit the number of SLOTS.. dont enforce a 'additional' Heatsink/Weight limit on an already stressed for weight chassis such as the Locust.

*quick edit*

Actually tried this with my Death's Knell. I can put 3 LL's on it as long as i use standard HS's and both Armor/Structure mods.. with the smallest 'standard' engion (giving me 86kph) + the required 6 heatsinks.

If they dont want lights useing 'heavy firepower'.. Then limit the number of slots in the 'weapon' sections of the mech, dont force us to give up 'tons' in order to fit a Square-shaped Balance technique into a Round-shaped Mech.

86kph thats pointless, If removed we could add slightly bigger weapons and say more ammo, overheating in a locust is hard to do anyway.

[Gwydion Ward]

MonkeyCheese, on 15 October 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

86kph thats pointless, If removed we could add slightly bigger weapons and say more ammo, overheating in a locust is hard to do anyway.

That right there is why i believe that stupid Heatsink requirement is there to begin with. Not for any love of the MW Universe lore. Even if 86kph is pointless in a light mech, its still a light-mech with 3 LL's. I am assuming that is what they 'dont' want to see running around. So to make it were it is almost impossible to do, they threw in the 'requirement' of the 'extra' HS's.

The side-effect is that it completely negates almost ALL setups from even being possible in order to make the Locust even 1/10th usefull.