24 replies to this topic

[Oppresor]

I am currently running a Spider 5K in a Recon / Artillery Spotter only role. This means it has no offensive weaponry except an Artillery Module. I picked the Spider for this role because of it's agility and speed, however we now have the Locust. My question is would the Locust be a better unit for this role? Remember it doesn't need to engage enemy units, just pass back Recon information like grids, strengths, types and generally act as eyes for the Assaults.

[Homeless Bill]

Spider is better in every way. It has more armor, more tonnage to play with, the same hardpoints, jumpjets, and it's way harder to hit. Don't get in a Locust.

Friends don't let friends pilot Locusts.

[Sowaka]

Sorry, but as a newer player I'm curious about this. Is this actually effective? I was under the impression that you could only call in one artillery strike per match. And what on earth do you fill all that empty tonnage with?

[Oppresor]

Sowaka, on 16 October 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Sorry, but as a newer player I'm curious about this. Is this actually effective? I was under the impression that you could only call in one artillery strike per match. And what on earth do you fill all that empty tonnage with?

In the main the tonnage is spent on survivability. Starting with the Spider 5K the following changes or equipment are added:

1. Endo Steel chassis
2. Ferro Fibrous Armour
3. Beagle Active Probe
4. AMS plus Ammo; I don't do ECM
5. Laser Designator
6. 4 x Zoom Module
7. Artillery Module

Tactical Purpose

Primary: To carry out Reconnaissance for the Assault class units in my Lance.
Reason: On the larger maps Assaults cannot afford to head in the wrong direction.

Secondary: To Illuminate enemy Assaults with the designator.
Reason: To enable accurate LRM fire on ECM shielded targets.

Secondary: To engage an opportune target with Artillery Fire.
Reason: I have found the best possible use is to engage enemy who are Capping our primary base. It's psychological, they often think a larger unit is engaging them and run off.

Secondary: To survive.
Reason: To be able to carry out all of the above and in doing so be an effective team unit.

Recon All The Way
.

[Deathlike]

Sowaka, on 16 October 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Sorry, but as a newer player I'm curious about this. Is this actually effective? I was under the impression that you could only call in one artillery strike per match. And what on earth do you fill all that empty tonnage with?

AFAIK, those items are reusable for the duration of the match. However, once you activate it, it's consumed for the match.

I will have to check on it. There is a timer function to prevent spam on it, but since they are rarely used prior to this patch, it's hard to remember how effective this is.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 October 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

They both seem to have HSR issues, so if you look at HSR/lagshield as an armor multiplier, the slightly greater ammount of armor of a spider is magnified several fold. Additionally the ability to run ECM and jumpjets give the Spider a definative advantage.

[Charons Little Helper]

I voted locust - but mainly because once weight limits are in you'll be using less of your team's resources. Plus on one of the locust variants you can get 2 AMS.

So - spider for now because of armor and jump-jets.

Locust once weight limits are in because it gives the rest of your team another 10 tons to play with.

[Oppresor]

Charons Little Helper, on 16 October 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

I voted locust - but mainly because once weight limits are in you'll be using less of your team's resources. Plus on one of the locust variants you can get 2 AMS.

So - spider for now because of armor and jump-jets.

Locust once weight limits are in because it gives the rest of your team another 10 tons to play with.

Thanks, I hadn't thought about it that way but your right, if a unit is primarily going to be Recon only then it makes a lot of sense to give up tonnage for the armed units in the Lance.

I was thinking more along the lines of any speed advantage that the Locust may have; I know that there is a possibility that we will be getting MASC http://www.google.co....54176721,d.d2k at some stage, and from what I have read this would enable an ultra light unit like the Locust to be very useful in the Recon / Spotter role.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Although Locusts were intended for Recon, the available variants with their current limits (such as module slots) are outshined by available Spiders that can match them for speed, ironically or not like in the lore, and have Jump Jets.

If Locusts can get at least one additional Module Slot, and at least receive no fall damage from reasonable heights when moving around, then I might be inclined to go with them. Right now I feel Locusts need a bit more work to get them to where they could be more useful to the team since they are too brittle right now with their legs being way too vulnerable to fall damage at their speeds, even in a Recon role.


So, I'd say that the SDR-5V could be the best pure Recon mech available ATM, since it can have four Module Slots once Mastered, has the matching speed to Locusts, and has plenty of JJs to better escape, evade and reach heights no other mech can (I didn't add AMS because that can be used by savvy players to zero in on you when they see the bullet stream).

And in terms of Recon, I think the SDR-5K is outclassed by the SDR-5D and the RVN-3L based on hardpoints and ECM.

The 5K can fulfill the Recon role being a fast light, but I'd say its better suited as a harasser and finisher with its speed and MG's, in comparison.

Edit:
And for Modules I'd consider:
Sensor Range and Target Info Gathering for their Synergy with BAP to get enemy loadouts sooner and at max range, or TAG range if facing ECM.

And for the third and fourth Slots, the Artillery and Airstrike modules can be carried.

Edited by Praetor Shepard, 18 October 2013 - 01:20 AM.

[Thipequz]

I do understand why you have built this mech, as part of a team, it must be extremely helpful to have a little recon unit like this, but this does rely on a number of things to be effective

a) You need to have team mates with LRMs, without these, your tag is essentially useless, except for gathering info and then feeding it back.

You need to run in a team of players who actually listen to their recons, I've noticed on hundreds of occassions that a recon will be feeding back info like 3 atlas' in E3, and then, an enemy spider runs through our front line, the whole team turn and fight said spider, instead of paying attention to the 3 atlas', and moments later half the team is under fire with their backs to the actual targets (not that I am saying killing the spider isn't a good idea, but it doesn't require 6 mechs to do this).

c) Please please please tell me you have got JJ's on this mech, your loadout didn't mention them. Also for this very point the spider is instantly a winner over the locust, as a recon mech.

[Saxdasm762]

But the locust is the only light that has the capablility to run with 2 ams's, and it has 5 energy hardpooints on that variant. Which means that putting a tag doesn't seriously hinder its offensive capablilities to put a tag on it. The locust is faster than the ECM Spider even without speed tweak. Sure it doesn't have jump jets, but it doesn't seem to need them to get up steep slopes (unlike the spider). Plus some of the tournaments have weight restrictions. If you are going to waste a mech on utilities than why not take a lighter mech so that you can use a heavier mechs for your main lances. Some tournaments won't allow ecm even. The spider is also more expensive to set up in a pinch, if you really need a scout mech but no one has one, the locust is much cheaper to set up. If the enemy has a tag ecm is nullified for the long range game, but 4 ams's can almost stop any lrm boat from being effective enough to bring.


"stirring the pot"

[DONTOR]

Spiders are easy mode and the go to mech for new players, I personally prefer a challenge. Something that showcases skill.

[Oppresor]

Thipequz Fear not, the Spider has jump jets; I must admit I think these are a serious omission on the Locust, but was prepared to trade off against the speed advantage that it should have. You are right, it is a risk to deploy in a Recon unit especially if the rest of the Lance don't listen to your Sitreps. I normally come up on the Chatline at the beginning of the Mission and let the others know I am Recon, that gives them the choice to ask me to Recon a specific sector of the battlefield. I can also cause some damage with the Artillery Strike if I get a good opportune target.

[focuspark]

who ever voted Locust is only trolling - there's no comparison between the Spider and any other light 'mech right now.

[Otto Cannon]

The only possible reason to use a Locust at the moment is that you're such an ultimate mechaninja that your skills are overwhelming and you need a handicap to slow down the rate that you kill the entire enemy team.

[Desolator]

DONTOR, on 18 October 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

Spiders are easy mode and the go to mech for new players, I personally prefer a challenge. Something that showcases skill.

While I can appreiate the centiment, the only thing that matters at the end of the day are win results. No one cares if you piloted a Locust skillfully if your team lost.

[Johnny Reb]

Even if the spider died as fast as the locust, the spider is the better option, hands down!

[RandomLurker]

lolcust

nuff said.

for real post: More weapons, armor, JJ, ECM, all with equal speed and agility? There's no contest, and anyone that thinks there is is deluding themselves.

[Johnny Reb]

RandomLurker, on 18 October 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

lolcust

nuff said.

for real post: More weapons, armor, JJ, ECM, all with equal speed and agility? There's no contest, and anyone that thinks there is is deluding themselves.

Um...Locust lacks alot of those things, dont you mean Spider?

[Kardax]

Spider wins by far - locust speeded, locust sized , mini atlas with jump jets and ECM. And cant be legged as easily as locust.

Edited by Kardax, 19 October 2013 - 03:13 AM.