49 replies to this topic

[Training Instructor]

Cool story about fixing some bugs in the patch bro.

Not talking about spiders zigzagging at 170kph either.

I'm talking about unloading 2 SRM6, 3 med lasers, and an ER Large on a spider that stopped to machine gun the back of a teammate.

3 times in one match that I shot an idiotic spider pilot, and then he dance away with almost no effective damage.

Do you know why people are enjoying killing the locusts so much? Because so many players dealth with 5 straight months of unkillable Raven 3L hell, and are still dealing with spider hell. When the spiders first came out, they were totally killable. For the first 3-4 months they were out people laughed at them as being useless. What happened?

[Lefty Lucy]

A lot of those SRMs probably missed entirely, and your aim with those lasers probably isn't as steady as you'd like to think. Thus all of the components of the enemy mech turning yellow is probably about right.

[Adiuvo]

What happened was that they became the new thing to hate.

Chances are you're spreading laser damage everywhere on the Spider. It happens to the best pilots. They have small hitboxes to match the small component size, but given that each of these has individual health pools it's easy to see why lasers appear to do nothing.

SRMs have {Scrap} hit detection though, for all mechs. Lights especially. I wouldn't even bother shooting SRMs at lights personally.

[William Mountbank]

True story : I had a match the other day and was in a Spider. I shot an Atlas three times and he walked away with barely any damage.

[Zypher]

The replies to these threads kill me, if you pay any semblance of attention when you are playing this game it's easy to see there are problems with spiders taking damage properly. I never would reply much to these threads, but with how stinking easy it is to leg or destroy a locust which can move just as fast and is pretty small itself it just made it more clear there is something not right with spiders.

I have had plenty of times where spiders are stopped or stuck and dead center hits with group weapons do a fraction of the damage. Sure there are hit registry problems that effect all mechs, but it's rare enough that I can dismiss it and move on. Spiders are the opposite, on occasion my alphas do what they are supposed to, but most of the time repeated strikes have very little effect even on stationary targets.

I am going to laugh the day the problems are worked out, or at least improved and spider pilots come back to the forums bitching in droves.

On the flip side I feel bad for locust pilots, has to be the easiest mech to just roll over in a heavier chassis, the spider and locust should be reversed when it comes to taking damage, at least then people will have a reason to continue using the locust.

Edited by Zypher, 16 October 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[William Mountbank]

Can the Spider have more weapon hardpoints than the Locust then?

[Adiuvo]

Zypher, on 16 October 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

The replies to these threads kill me, if you pay any semblance of attention when you are playing this game it's easy to see there are problems with spiders taking damage properly. I never would reply much to these threads, but with how stinking easy it is to leg or destroy a locust which can move just as fast and is pretty small itself it just made it more clear there is something not right with spiders.

I have had plenty of times where spiders are stopped or stuck and dead center hits with group weapons do a fraction of the damage. Sure there are hit registry problems that effect all mechs, but it's rare enough that I can dismiss it and move on. Spiders are the opposite, on occasion my alphas do what they are supposed to, but most of the time repeated strikes have very little effect even on stationary targets.

I am going to laugh the day the problems are worked out, or at least improved and spider pilots come back to the forums bitching in droves.

On the flip side I feel bad for locust pilots, has to be the easiest mech to just roll over in a heavier chassis, the spider and locust should be reversed when it comes to taking damage, at least then people will have a reason to continue using the locust.

Locusts die easy because they have zilch for armor. The Spider an average of 30 on its components. The Locust is at about half.

If there are HSR issues for a Spider, the Locust would have them even worse given everything but the legs are smaller. As for hitboxes, the Spider does have a few holes in the middle of the mech, but they are quite tiny. It's nothing you're going to hit often.

[Odins Fist]

I have unloaded an AC-20, and ER-LL, and an ER-PPC into a Spider that was stationary behind a friendly, after getting lock, at 150 to 250 meters more times than I can count, I have hit them with the exact same loadout while they were running away in a straight line as well, other loadouts of weapons, and the same results.

All indicators showing a hit on said Spiders with Yellow, Orange, Red rear CT... Sometimes they take a little damage, sometimes they die, but for the most part they just run away, even after the intitial salvo and engaging the Spider as it runs to and fro through a team, landing AC-20 hits that show the crosshair turn red, watching the round physically hit the Spider, and the sensor on the upper right showing the different parts or CT light up on the Spider, and also seeing ER-LL turn it's armor a glowing color, the Spider doesn't take any additional damage, or very little after multiple Mechs hammering it.

Anyone that says there isn't some sort of problem with the Spider in terms of Hit Reg and how much damage the Spider takes is beyond naive. This has been known for a long time.

Someone asked for Video of this, and got many, there is a dead spot on the Spider even standing still there is an issue for Pilots that hit the Spider dead center...

Watch the whole Video


This is just one little example of one issue with the Spider, there are more examples out there.

[Mehlan]

Odins Fist, on 16 October 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

I have unloaded an AC-20, and ER-LL, and an ER-PPC into a Spider that was stationary behind a friendly, after getting lock, at 150 to 250 meters more times than I can count, I have hit them with the exact same loadout while they were running away in a straight line as well, other loadouts of weapons, and the same results.

All indicators showing a hit on said Spiders with Yellow, Orange, Red rear CT... Sometimes they take a little damage, sometimes they die, but for the most part they just run away, even after the intitial salvo and engaging the Spider as it runs to and fro through a team, landing AC-20 hits that show the crosshair turn red, watching the round physically hit the Spider, and the sensor on the upper right showing the different parts or CT light up on the Spider, and also seeing ER-LL turn it's armor a glowing color, the Spider doesn't take any additional damage, or very little after multiple Mechs hammering it.

Anyone that says there isn't some sort of problem with the Spider in terms of Hit Reg and how much damage the Spider takes is beyond naive. This has been known for a long time.

Someone asked for Video of this, and got many, there is a dead spot on the Spider even standing still there is an issue for Pilots that hit the Spider dead center...

Watch the whole Video


This is just one little example of one issue with the Spider, there are more examples out there.

and there are videos showing it working perfectly fine also... So it sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't... why is it a 'mech' problem and a subsystem?

[Training Instructor]

I'm not stupid, I didn't post this because I can't aim.

I'm talking about shooting spiders who are barely moving because they're zeroed in on coring out a heavy from behind....and watching those sub 200m alphas go nowhere. I wasn't feckin spraying and praying. I focused on the spider, centered on him, and fired while he was moving slow, directly in front of me. The two SRM6 I can understand spreading damage, but the 3 medium lasers and ER large spreading damage to a spider that's barely moving?

As we used to say in WoW, nagga please. I'm watching locusts exploding left and right, but spiders are as special as ever. I'm just kind of furious they weren't this invulnerable when I mastered three of them. It's nice that PGI recognizes our contribution by registering at least one damage to each component. It's garbage that they expect me to carry a bunch of streaks to actually guarantee that damage.

[Odins Fist]

Mehlan, on 16 October 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

and there are videos showing it working perfectly fine also... So it sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't... why is it a 'mech' problem and a subsystem?

So are you saying there is no problem with the Spider at all ...???

"Anyone that says there isn't some sort of problem with the Spider in terms of Hit Reg and how much damage the Spider takes is beyond naive. This has been known for a long time." <-------- This

Regardless if it is HSR or something else going on, there is a problem... Since we don't have any info given to us for an explanation from the powers that be, and hordes of people are complaining about it ingame and in the forums, then I guess the koolaid is delicious.

Looks like I have a puppy dog following me around... Oh wait it's a Spider.

AC-20 = no damage....

Edited by Odins Fist, 16 October 2013 - 12:45 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Locusts are paying for people's bottled up frustration towards the Spider. They're like tiny, crunchy punching bags.

"I hit that Spider square in the CT! And then I watched it smile and kill my teammates with MGs! Why, God, why!? Take this! And that!"

[Odins Fist]

Alistair Winter, on 16 October 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Locusts are paying for people's bottled up frustration towards the Spider.

Because they actually register "ALL" the damage your weapons do when they HIT.

YUUUUUUP....

[Bilbo]

Alistair Winter, on 16 October 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Locusts are paying for people's bottled up frustration towards the Spider. They're like tiny, crunchy punching bags.

"I hit that Spider square in the CT! And then I watched it smile and kill my teammates with MGs! Why, God, why!? Take this! And that!"

I remember when you could damage a spider when you hit them. I'm still trying to figure out how it all went to hell. Sometimes my ac/20 turns it into little bitty mech parts and sometimes my ac/20 bounces off, and I know I'm in for a bad time.

[Vodrin Thales]

Zypher, on 16 October 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

The replies to these threads kill me, if you pay any semblance of attention when you are playing this game it's easy to see there are problems with spiders taking damage properly. I never would reply much to these threads, but with how stinking easy it is to leg or destroy a locust which can move just as fast and is pretty small itself it just made it more clear there is something not right with spiders.

A lot of these responses though come about because many of us have only minor problems damaging spiders and so these threads sound like hyperbole. It's very possible that the differences seen are entirely due to differences in net code effect from player to player. It's also possible there are other explanations, but in any case different players are having far different experiences fighting spiders.

[New Day]

Lefty Lucy, on 16 October 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

A lot of those SRMs probably missed entirely, and your aim with those lasers probably isn't as steady as you'd like to think. Thus all of the components of the enemy mech turning yellow is probably about right.

Adiuvo, on 16 October 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

What happened was that they became the new thing to hate.

Chances are you're spreading laser damage everywhere on the Spider. It happens to the best pilots. They have small hitboxes to match the small component size, but given that each of these has individual health pools it's easy to see why lasers appear to do nothing.

SRMs have {Scrap} hit detection though, for all mechs. Lights especially. I wouldn't even bother shooting SRMs at lights personally.

Adiuvo, on 16 October 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Locusts die easy because they have zilch for armor. The Spider an average of 30 on its components. The Locust is at about half.

If there are HSR issues for a Spider, the Locust would have them even worse given everything but the legs are smaller. As for hitboxes, the Spider does have a few holes in the middle of the mech, but they are quite tiny. It's nothing you're going to hit often.

Mehlan, on 16 October 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

and there are videos showing it working perfectly fine also... So it sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't... why is it a 'mech' problem and a subsystem?

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=N-qab_iBB2w

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 16 October 2013 - 01:04 PM.

[xRatas]

Just watched spider with almost 300 ping to kill 5 mechs today. I tried to hit him with autocannons,lasers and PPC:s that easily took out jenners and locusts, to no avail. Then after I died I watched him get hit several times by my team mates, without any damage. Finally when team mate missed him with pair of PPC:s during his flight, he decided to explode to bits.

Seriously, spiders are completely messed up, and even more so when their (and yours) ping is high. You can't even hurt them when they stand still.

With same mech I can pick off stationary jenner's head from 300m with single shot, why can't I damage stationary spider at all from half the range?

[Adiuvo]

NamesAreStupid, on 16 October 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=N-qab_iBB2w

I really need to make one of that happening to me with Atlases... it's a system problem, not a mech problem.

I'm also curious about relative pings. People with 200+ pings definitely do have hit reg issues, but given that basically no FPS game works well at that ping I'm not sure what people expect. As an example:

Edited by Adiuvo, 16 October 2013 - 01:25 PM.

[New Day]

Adiuvo, on 16 October 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

I really need to make one of that happening to me with Atlases... it's a system problem, not a mech problem.

I'm also curious about relative pings. People with 200+ pings definitely do have hit reg issues, but given that basically no FPS game works well at that ping I'm not sure what people expect. As an example:

Only happens to me with Spiders though. Hell a spider can tank better than an Atlas.

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 16 October 2013 - 01:29 PM.

[xRatas]

Adiuvo, on 16 October 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

I really need to make one of that happening to me with Atlases... it's a system problem, not a mech problem.

I'm also curious about relative pings. People with 200+ pings definitely do have hit reg issues, but given that basically no FPS game works well at that ping I'm not sure what people expect.

EU server...

I agree it is partly a system problem (hit detection fails at short ranges), but spider has it's own problem too(hit detection fails at any range).