70 replies to this topic

[Mack1]

Make a PUG only queue

I have introduced hundreds of people to MWO and only about 20 are still playing, I have even personally coached people with builds and tactics but they still quit the game. I get the same reasons all the time, there is no fun being facerolled by premades.

I am lucky as I have my own TS3 server and play in a premade most evenings, we rarely lose. It's easy fighting against unorganised PUG's and it's turning people away. Don't believe me? Read the comments on Gamespots review or any other review, these are real comments from real people and they back up what I have been saying for 8 months.

If you don't add a queue then add some form of Voice chat.

Remove the Ghost Heat Mechanic

Ghost Heat has ruined all Mechs that rely on energy weapons. Why should I play any Assault Mech now when I can do twice as much DPS in a Ilya or a Jaeger with 3 UAC-5 or 3 LB10? You never see PPC or Gauss (fire dely nerf) anymore due to the nerfs. I have 28 Mechs 7 of them premium but I only play the ballistic ones as they don't suffer from Ghost heat.

Ghost Heat is not even needed now due to the huge heat increases of energy based weapons. The battlefield is now full of pew pew builds as it's the only viable build, 2 LL, 4 ML and a few missiles and you wonder why games are boring! No snipers, no LRM boats, No big Assault laser boats to fear, just everyone pew pewing with their standard cookie build, how boring.

I have spent hundreds of pounds supporting this game as have many of my friends and all but 2 of them has told me they are never spending another penny on this game until they get rid of Ghost heat. Some are even preparing their accounts for sale by unlocking all variants and making them elite. Now if that is just within my own circle of friends it must also be going on right across MWO player base.

MWO is losing players (same names every other battle) and therefore losing money which means eventually the game will cease and that is a horrible thought. I want this game to succeed but pretty much everyone except those in denial can see it's heading into freefall.

Edited by Mack1, 17 October 2013 - 01:35 AM.

[Ens]

exaggerating

Quote

I have spent hundreds of pounds supporting this game as have many of my friends and all but 2 of them has told me they are never spending another penny on this game until....

ppl keep saying this over and over and usually end up buying "Overlord" anyway.... just like you did

it´s a vicious circle

[Thorqemada]

Hey Mack, when do you come up with a new "Gankenstein"?
I liked your Gankenstein-Videos...^^

Well, you are right, we all want this game succeed and "Ghost Heat" - while it helps somehow - is to complicated and almost unintuitve on a "Hostile" level that nobody understands that does not look deep into the Forum.

For sure it wont make Players happy!

Plenty suggestions where made and PGI only needs to dig them out...

Edited by Thorqemada, 17 October 2013 - 02:30 AM.

[Windsaw]

I have played this game since closed beta.
I have 20 mech bays and tested really a lot of loadouts, usually in the light to medium tonnage, but also some heavies.

Never in this whole time did I run into the ghost heat problem or have chosen a loadout that would have suffered ghost heat if it existed at that time.

I am not saying that ghost heat is not a problem.
It is a problem mostly because it is undocumented. Also, it was introduced to fix a problem that should have been fixt differently.
But I am saying that you extremely overemphasize this problem.

As I see it ghost heat is only a problem for cheesebuilds whose very existence would cause more people to leave this game than by people who get frustrated by ghost heat.

All in all there are about six to eight problems in MWO which have much more the potential to kill MWO.
Ghost heat is a problem, but only a minor one.

[Rushin Roulette]

Why implement a solo only queue AND voice chat?
The only real advantage grouped players usually have is coordination due to better communication (Voicechat) which means that they can say "Im pushing over C5, need backup" instead of mutely walking to C5 and wondering why no other mechs are joining the push.

Just implementing a simple and intuitive voice chat alone would fix about 90% of the probelms you are writing about.

On the other hand.. how many times have you said in your Ts3 while spectating others (who are not on yoru TS3 team), that they are as thick as 2 short planks and cant play worth excrement? Just imagine how many complaints you will be getting if they could actually hear what you were saying (no matter if what you said was true or not). I know I do say that sort of thing in the heat of the match and I wouldnt really want them to hear that in retrospect.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 17 October 2013 - 02:08 AM.

[Levon K]

Definitely need a PUG only queue. I barely tolerate the pug-stomping but that's because I'm both a tough individual and also dedicated to the franchise. Can't say the same about everyone so many will eventually give up (unless CW turns out to be a real blast).

Keep in mind the argument is generally "if you're tired of pugging then get on teamspeak and join us". Putting on a headset and shutting out the outside world is not an option for everyone, especially when there's a lot of overhead and commitment required to run with a group. Moreover, forcing people to run in groups is simply adding to the pug-stomping problem and is not a valid solution.

I'm a decent player and I run about a 40% win rate. I can tolerate it because I have premium and regularly run hero / founder mechs for the bonus c-bills. I'd imagine it would be game-breakingly frustrating for a more casual pugger that's for sure.

With regard to Ghost Heat, I agree it's convoluted, but believe me it is a much lesser evil than getting facerolled on a regular basis.

[Otto Cannon]

Out of the people I started playing this game with I'm the only one left now. The others left because there's no variety of game modes and maps to keep you interested during the endless grind, and on top of that you have to play as a premade to get the most out of what there is. People leaving started a chain reaction making it harder every week to find teams with people you know and like, and it simply isn't enough for most players to keep dropping on the same maps and doing the same thing with random pug teams and no integrated voice comms.

When you add to that all the balance and hit detection problems, with PGI hardly bothering to communicate except via Russ making sarcastic 'shut up you scum everything's fine' comments on twatter it's hardly surprising nobody I know wants to play this game with me any more.

[Ghogiel]

PPCs are still top tier weapons. The most common assaults and heavies are still packing 2 of them, namely the CTF 3D, HGN 733C, and the VTR 9B and 9S.

And the meta is still mostly long range JJ burst over DPS builds.

The only thing that is noticeable is that gauss is largely replaced by U/AC5 and you don't see 3 or more PPCs on many mechs now

[Karl Streiger]

I'm pretty sure if i dig deep into the archive I will found a similar topic 12 months old.

Seriously MWO as game was dead for me - for 7 months - only forum warfare kept it allive.

Ghost Heat - isn't that hard to understand - really all you need is a single tutorial vid where some one explain it.
It is not logical - but I think its a temporary fix - the only question is how long is temporary - ECM proves that temporary things or that looks like - are very very hard to get lost

[LiGhtningFF13]

@Mack1: I also invited other players/clan mades from good old times and they also stopped playing MWO, some even said that they don't understand most of the game content cause they don't speak English!

[Thorqemada]

LiGhtning90, on 17 October 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

@Mack1: I also invited other players/clan mades from good old times and they also stopped playing MWO, some even said that they don't understand most of the game content cause they don't speak English!

While i understand that there is some inconvenience playing a game in a for us foreign language i know plenty People that were not socialized to use any english and are capable of playing MWO.
My Dad is 78 and so bad at health and what made him stop playing is the current ECM/BAP/TAG/LRM implementation that is totally counterintuitive to him.
He loved raining Missiles on Enemies and was proud of a 0.3 K/D Ratio and to tell about the 3 kill match he achieved

He simply learned some english playing games...

Edited by Thorqemada, 17 October 2013 - 02:37 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Thanks for the post. Been saying this a long time. Everyone I got to join has left because of the stomping and that was before they cut the cbill payout. People need to consider what an advantage it is to drop with voice comms and then add the familiarity of team players. For pugs its one big crapshoot where individual skills are most important and even then no matter how good you are coordinated fire will dust you quickly.

I am sure the usual suspects will be along to trash this thread and tell you how they pug just fine. Read between the lines. Most are protecting their xp farming and dominance. Fact is it hurts all of us in the long run to keep this going for the status quo.

[Warge]

Mack1, on 17 October 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

Make a PUG only queue

PGI don't want to split players. Same reason why there is no 1PV-only: too small player base.

[Zeusacoatl]

Mack1, on 17 October 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

Ghost Heat is not even needed now due to the huge heat increases of energy based weapons. The battlefield is now full of pew pew builds as it's the only viable build, 2 LL, 4 ML and a few missiles and you wonder why games are boring! No snipers, no LRM boats, No big Assault laser boats to fear, just everyone pew pewing with their standard cookie build, how boring.

And what you said in the last part of this paragraph is exactly why they initiated ghost heat, the big assault cheese ppc/laser boats. One thing that was a Kill joy for all but those who used them. The "competitive" crowd that finds any loophole, cheat, or bug to make themselves more "competitive". the next quoted post sums it up.

Windsaw, on 17 October 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

I have played this game since closed beta.
I have 20 mech bays and tested really a lot of loadouts, usually in the light to medium tonnage, but also some heavies.

Never in this whole time did I run into the ghost heat problem or have chosen a loadout that would have suffered ghost heat if it existed at that time.

I am not saying that ghost heat is not a problem.
It is a problem mostly because it is undocumented. Also, it was introduced to fix a problem that should have been fixt differently.
But I am saying that you extremely overemphasize this problem.

As I see it ghost heat is only a problem for cheesebuilds whose very existence would cause more people to leave this game than by people who get frustrated by ghost heat.

All in all there are about six to eight problems in MWO which have much more the potential to kill MWO.
Ghost heat is a problem, but only a minor one.

[Tahribator]

Ghost heat actually made the game more fun. Yes I'm sure it was "easier" for new players to look up a 6PPC Stalker build and get a few cheesy kills with it, but boating was hurting this game a lot. It completely shutdown lights,mediums, and any kind of "traditional" brawler(I don't count 2xERPPC+1xGauss "brawler").

[Mycrus]

Mak gimme a break... How many times did you "quit" already only to come back...

You even bought into pheonix...

[NextGame]

some points here:

While I generally agree with the OP I would recommend in game voice chat over splitting out queues, if there are as few players as professed then splitting queues isn't really going to improve that. On the other hand "soon" can mean anything up to 2 years according to the PGI modus operandi handbook, so god knows what "lets start working on feature x" looks like, to allude to the stereotype (deserved or not) I bet even Spanish construction workers look on in awe at the non-progression in completion of feature set that this game has.

The other thing that can be done to improve player variety is to ease up the elo range at which players are paired into a match based on the number of players on at that particular time. Although this could lead to more facerolling, there are few even games at present and as such nobody is really going to notice anyway.

Ghost heat is a terrible solution to a misinterpretation of the actual problem and should never have been introduced.

Edited by NextGame, 17 October 2013 - 02:53 AM.

[WildeKarde]

Not sure I agree with splitting the player base. As someone who only plays casually I PUG all the time, not sure I have the play time to commit to joining anyone. Plus if you and a single mate want to have a quick couple of games you are pushing them in with the organised teams. You could even be showing a completely new player how to play and they get matched against an experienced team - can't see that being fun.

However, with that I still think a PUG can do ok if they play even slightly organised. Quite often a PUG will indicate their builds at the start and can overrun the other team. I do agree they need better comms for them. Even something as simple as quick comms statements from single button pushes, if you run into a couple of mechs you don't have the chance to type anything until you or they are dead.

Heatwise I think it's ok. I've never been one for piling on large numbers of the same weapon just to snipe from the back of the map. Alpha striking should be less common that it is even now.

We still get snipers, we still get LRM boats and you might say everyone has the same build but personally I make my build around the style that suits me on each mech. Better now than everyone being twin PPC / gauss or 100 LRMs.

Edited by Jake Hendricks, 17 October 2013 - 03:01 AM.

[Devin Takkar]

No, a PUG queue is not a solution to anything. It would only split up the playerbase and matchmaking would get more complicated (because having a PUG queue means also having a Lance only queue for groups up to four people. Just do some math and fill up a group of twelve players with the correct skill level with groups variing from 2 to 4 people without using a lonewolf.)
It doesn't even need voicechat. Just some easy to use, basic phrases to communicate with the press of a button. Something like pressing >F1< for "Coordinated attack on Alpha", >F2< for "Return to Base" or a fast click on the map for an "Enemies sighted in D5". That's all.
There is no need to actually discuss things over voice chat. It's enough if your team has some basic information.

Edited by Devin Takkar, 17 October 2013 - 03:00 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Just did 10 matches. All stomps and honestly it wasnt that the other team had good players. I did well above 400 dmg in each match though lost each one. It has to do with you fire on one and get return fire from four. Last match I gaussed and atlas at 900m turned and ran. Within seconds I had four lites on me. I got two but it took me out of play and my team was wiped out before i died. Of course the usual in chat "You scrubs suck" and 'GG" came at the end.

I cant call for help or direct fire instantly by typing where I am twisting and turning in a fight. I have been playing since Jan and have mastered all assauts, heavys and a few meduims so its not experince and it sure isnt skill. Its exploits win in this game and everyone knows it. Whether they are honest with themselves or not. You cannot retain players under such conditions and the fanatics dont have the numbers to support it.