Well, I see two people in that chat acting like petulant children rather than asking for a clarification to what he meant.
Anything you have to say after that image is fairly irrelevant.
I cant believe it but I agree. PGI does need to say what is actually wrong them because if it isnt that then something else is very wrong. And no people arent making this up.
Or
PGI wants everyone to run spiders since there is nothing wrong with them and something wrong with every other mech.
As a regular light and heavy pilot i've seen the hitreg vary wildly from one side to the other whilst playing, in that i can engage another spider and have his armour flash when i shoot him but no damage taken, and other times where i just seem to nail that little sucker in a few hits.
I've also had this same experience in my own spider in that sometimes i can engage another mech for a protracted period of time, and other times i've literally been legged or killed in a few scant hits by enemy 'mechs. I still personally think it's more an issue with hit registration, otherwise i wouldn't get such inconsistencies in each match. I average between 100 to 117ms playing from the United Kingdom.
Hit reg is just **** across the board, and this is with a ping in the 30ms range. I personally love when you round a corner and the server decides 2-3 seconds later that the mech you were running from really DID hit you and now all your armor is gone when you thought you ducked just in time.
Spiders are NOT fixed.
No matter what developers or Spider pilots say. Their survivabilty to head on shots is beyond belief.
Spider should be removed from the game till it behaves like all other mechs.
Spiders are NOT fixed.
No matter what developers or Spider pilots say. Their survivabilty to head on shots is beyond belief.
Spider should be removed from the game till it behaves like all other mechs.
It does. Atlases, Highlanders, Shadowhawks, every mech acts the same way. I've had just about every mech suck up shots and take no damage.
Spider is just smaller and faster. If you manage to hit them, they take damage just the same as any other mech.
It does. Atlases, Highlanders, Shadowhawks, every mech acts the same way. I've had just about every mech suck up shots and take no damage.
Spider is just smaller and faster. If you manage to hit them, they take damage just the same as any other mech.
You're wasting your time - if people can't be bothered to read the previous pages worth of posts he probably wont read your reply. The effects of convergence vs. fast closing lights (those "head on" shots people complain about) are pretty well documented.
People - put a tag in each "ear" of a stalker. Now try locking onto a fast moving light that's running towards you. Notice that it takes *time* for them to converge - a commando is easier to hit because it's wider at chest level than a spider (The slightly splayed arms) - a locust is easier to hit because, if you're a highalphawarrior (which most of the complainants seem to be) you don't actually have to deliver both barrels to kill one). Now try it with a spider - it has ECM, so you're often just eyeballing it instead of centering your crosshairs in a red box, it's running towards you at 150+, its too narrow for your weapons to hit when converged "behind" the spider (again, contrary to your experience with a commando), most good spider pilots will feather their jets to make their trajectory unpredictable (as opposed to, say, a raven 3l which has no jets). All this, coupled *with* the excessive HSR issues means that a spider is going to be darned hard to hit. Unless you can hold your crosshair on it long enough for your weapons to fully converge you're going to miss. Spider pilots understand that they have to make sure people can't hold the crosshairs on them. I was one-shotted several times in my 5v at 170kph several times yesterday while spotting for my missile boats. Once gauss, once AC20 and once, because I got carried away with my 12jj... I was shot out of the air by a dual ppc dual AC5 that made my mech into a donut (arms, legs, head all still 100% but the whole middle of my mech gone - hilarious!). It happens. The best advice I can offer for anyone whom has issues hitting spiders is to run one for a few weeks almost exclusively - you'll learn what spider pilots have to do to survive, then you can learn to counter it.
It does. Atlases, Highlanders, Shadowhawks, every mech acts the same way. I've had just about every mech suck up shots and take no damage.
Spider is just smaller and faster. If you manage to hit them, they take damage just the same as any other mech.
Spiders sure are small and faster but when one of them is shutdown 150m from my Ctaphract and it survives 2 LL beams steadily aimed at its back CT plus 4 shots of LBX-10 to the back plus an avalanche of LRMs that came from a Catapult and only changes to orange armour, something is wrong with the mech.
Its broken.
I chased a Spider in a Locust recently. So I know I was moving relatively the same speed.
Two Large Lasers and a dozen medium lasers to the rear of the damn thing and it just kept going and going, and going. I probably plugged 40+ damage into the *** of that thing, and it still lived.
No I did not miss, I was literally using the WWII Fighter Piolet targeting (I was faster than the spider so I ran up till the mech filled my cross hairs and then shot). Trust me the lasers were hitting the target. But did the sucker die? Hell no.
One thing of interest though. I have excellent Ping times to the servers (20 to 30, as I live in Michigan). I've noticed that a friend of mine and I (he lives close to me as well) complain all the time that we shoot something and nothing happens. Or all of a sudden our arm will fall off with no one shooting at us. I also get a fair amount of skipping and rubber banding. I thought it was my computer, but now I'm wondering...
I wonder if the Host State Rewind fix is getting us out of sync with the rest of the players who have higher pings?
Just unloaded several LL shots on a spider and some Double AC5 and it just changed a bit orange all over the place. I was with my SHD-5M and the spider won by far in a simple 1vs1 duel. Almost no direct hit turned the reticule red and the changes in the target mech's paper model were insignificant.
Spiders sure are small and faster but when one of them is shutdown 150m from my Ctaphract and it survives 2 LL beams steadily aimed at its back CT plus 4 shots of LBX-10 to the back plus an avalanche of LRMs that came from a Catapult and only changes to orange armour, something is wrong with the mech.
Its broken.
you ever play a fast light? I play jenners and as I am usually being hit in the back I tend to put a little extra armour on the back. ALSO lasers? were you stopped? if not guess what, you were spreading your damage over three rear torso areas. LB-10X, Spread weapon, again all over the place including arms and legs. Was there a Narc on that spider? if not guess what, NOT ALL LRMS HIT IT BECAUSE OF THE MISSILE SPREAD and what size LRMS... 5's? 10's?
The chairs are over there, I suggest you go have a seat.
sabujo, on 10 December 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:
Just unloaded several LL shots on a spider and some Double AC5 and it just changed a bit orange all over the place. I was with my SHD-5M and the spider won by far in a simple 1vs1 duel. Almost no direct hit turned the reticule red and the changes in the target mech's paper model were insignificant.
This mech needs serious hit detection work.
what's your ping, and what was his?
Edited by Randalf Yorgen, 10 December 2013 - 08:59 AM.
Spiders are NOT fixed.
No matter what developers or Spider pilots say. Their survivabilty to head on shots is beyond belief.
Spider should be removed from the game till it behaves like all other mechs.
You should be removed from the game until you learn how to play. There are testing grounds, use them.
Edited by Fierostetz, 10 December 2013 - 11:59 AM.
Randalf Yorgen, on 10 December 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:
you ever play a fast light? I play jenners and as I am usually being hit in the back I tend to put a little extra armour on the back. ALSO lasers? were you stopped? if not guess what, you were spreading your damage over three rear torso areas. LB-10X, Spread weapon, again all over the place including arms and legs. Was there a Narc on that spider? if not guess what, NOT ALL LRMS HIT IT BECAUSE OF THE MISSILE SPREAD and what size LRMS... 5's? 10's?
I did play fast lights. Jenners and Commandos in Closed Beta. Then moved to more heavy mechs.
Didnt spread the damage of the LL. My aim is quite good.
LBX-10s, being spread weapons, are less effective at distance, the closer you are the more damage they do. Thats was the case, I ended near the Spider.
Dont remember any NARC. I think they were 2xLRM15.
After that the Spider just restarted and moved on.
Fierostetz, on 10 December 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:
There are testing grounds, use them.
No need. Have more than 180 hours spent in the game, and that is just since the stat page exist.
I deal damage to the other fast mechs with no problem, the Spider, though, is broken. Its like they have hidden armour settings or the damage done isnt reflected on the mech.
I did play fast lights. Jenners and Commandos in Closed Beta. Then moved to more heavy mechs.
Didnt spread the damage of the LL. My aim is quite good.
LBX-10s, being spread weapons, are less effective at distance, the closer you are the more damage they do. Thats was the case, I ended near the Spider.
Dont remember any NARC. I think they were 2xLRM15.
After that the Spider just restarted and moved on.
No need. Have more than 180 hours spent in the game, and that is just since the stat page exist.
I deal damage to the other fast mechs with no problem, the Spider, though, is broken. Its like they have hidden armour settings or the damage done isnt reflected on the mech.
So clearly, since you can't do something, it's impossible. I stream almost constantly, feel free to hit my archives to see plenty of her issues with other mechs, spiders being killed just fine. You're falling prey to confirmation bias. Hits intermittently register with every mech. I'd say my deaths knell shakes off more hits than my spiders (when rolling at 170). The game is just broken in general- stop expecting on-screen graphics to actually represent hits and you'll be far less frustrated. After all, since every hit in TT is decided by a roll of the dice... Why should mwo be different lol
So clearly, since you can't do something, it's impossible. I stream almost constantly, feel free to hit my archives to see plenty of her issues with other mechs, spiders being killed just fine. You're falling prey to confirmation bias. Hits intermittently register with every mech. I'd say my deaths knell shakes off more hits than my spiders (when rolling at 170). The game is just broken in general- stop expecting on-screen graphics to actually represent hits and you'll be far less frustrated. After all, since every hit in TT is decided by a roll of the dice... Why should mwo be different lol
DINGDINGDINGDING we haaaave a winner!
The reason spiders seem broken is that due to their tiny size and "high" armor, convergence spreads the damage all over them. They have little armament and this is their only real advantage.
Any good player is going to realize early to just hit spiders whenever possible to wear them down. They're moving so fast you can't track them; so your convergence time is repeatedly going to be racing to catch up when you do mouse over them. The best strategy for killing them with beam weapons is to fire preemptively and repeatedly graze them, and most of all: do not allow them to be the last mech standing. Ignore them all match and they're going to pick you apart.
They're spiders.
Edited by divinedisclaimer, 11 December 2013 - 07:51 AM.
divinedisclaimer, on 11 December 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:
DINGDINGDINGDING we haaaave a winner!
The reason spiders seem broken is that due to their tiny size and "high" armor, convergence spreads the damage all over them. They have little armament and this is their only real advantage.
Any good player is going to realize early to just hit spiders whenever possible to wear them down. They're moving so fast you can't track them; so your convergence time is repeatedly going to be racing to catch up when you do mouse over them. The best strategy for killing them with beam weapons is to fire preemptively and repeatedly graze them, and most of all: do not allow them to be the last mech standing. Ignore them all match and they're going to pick you apart.
They're spiders.
There's a technique detailed in the video below that pertains to how to most effectively deal with a spider.
In all seriousness though - almost every time I see people complaining about spiders it's because they couldn't hit them with some sort of pinpoint weapon. With lasers you can score *some* damage, with an AC20 or PPC, if you miss you miss. As of now, the most effective weapons (against spiders) are
1. Large pulse lasers.
2. LBX (once the armor is OPEN, people - don't shoot fully armored mechs with an LBX and expect fireworks.).
A very important part of fighting *any* "tough to kill" enemy is to RUN ONE for a while. This will let you see a) if you're actually invincible (no) and it should come as no surprise that what kills YOU constantly will also let you kill other spiders.
[rant below directed at nobody in general. feel free to disregard, but if you want to read go for it!]
Aaaaand here come the claims of "I ran one for a few days but stopped because it felt cheap." - No you didn't screenshot your fantastic stats that so skewed the game that you just *had* to stop running it. This, while you can usually search for such people and see threads where they run highlander poptarts and dual AC20 Jagers. If the spider felt cheap, the poptarts and boomjagers didn't? Go ahead and lie to everyone else, but draw the line at lying to yourself. The only way to truly defeat an enemy is to know your enemy, and you can't do that without seeing things from their perspective. My invitation is still open to any and all- send me an invite in-game, we can group up on teamspeak and do some drops together. I'll run a spider! I'll help teach you to kill me! Simply because I love this game and I want everyone to have fun playing it. If you don't know how to do something, open your mind and try learning. Stop blaming everyone else and actually take the steps to learn to fight them. Of my 64 (ish?) mostly mastered mechs, roughly 85% of my playtime is in my spider 5d (interestingly, my light with the highest WLR but *not* the highest KDR) because I like how it drives. If my Knell had JJ, it would be my favorite but sadly its ground-bound so it's my second stringer. Then a stalker 3f (painted flesh colored because it looks like a wee wee). We're a community here, everyone should contribute, everyone can learn, and everyone can grow. You just have to be willing to take the first step by admitting that you're not the top pilot in the game, throw out the ego, and learn something. I do it. Many players do it. Peef makes videos to teach people how to jenner (the one light I still can't for the life of me make work. It needs arms!), other users make guides to teach other mechs. Those videos are popular because people are *using* them. Understand for a moment that someone might know something that you don't.
I chased a Spider in a Locust recently. So I know I was moving relatively the same speed.
Two Large Lasers and a dozen medium lasers to the rear of the damn thing and it just kept going and going, and going. I probably plugged 40+ damage into the *** of that thing, and it still lived.
?
I dont know how most spiders run there armor but I have more on my back than I do on my front.I never attack head on.Only time I am hit hard is when im runnimg away after a run byUnless this spider was 50m away it would be very hard to hit only the center and not the sides or even the arms.Even 50 dmg on my spiders whole back wouldnt drop.Other than the jumping jacks The spider is the only one who will take dmg head to toe. I had the mech with no arms and red all over still running before.I cant say the same for my jagger who now has less armor on the legs the my spider lol
I did play fast lights. Jenners and Commandos in Closed Beta. Then moved to more heavy mechs. Didnt spread the damage of the LL. My aim is quite good. LBX-10s, being spread weapons, are less effective at distance, the closer you are the more damage they do. Thats was the case, I ended near the Spider. Dont remember any NARC. I think they were 2xLRM15. After that the Spider just restarted and moved on.
No need. Have more than 180 hours spent in the game, and that is just since the stat page exist.
I deal damage to the other fast mechs with no problem, the Spider, though, is broken. Its like they have hidden armour settings or the damage done isnt reflected on the mech.
Good aim doesn't matter if your mech has any sway what so ever (like being hit by someone else) on a tiny mech with tiny hit boxes the damage is spread, same with the LBX, unless you are A)stopped, within 50 Meters and C) totally lined up on the shot (not snap shooting it) some of the shot will miss. Again the LRM's will spread and if they passed any of the spiders friendlies with AMS then the numbers are reduced so instread of 30 points you only have 15-20, spread all over the mech.
IF the Spider was basically untouched before the assault you describe then it is very possible that once it restarted it did run away and was still in good working order.
I remember when Dragons used to go Light bowling, charge into us and knock us down. it toow 4 painful seconds to get back on our feet and then start to move. My jenner survived that many time, and the forums lit up with anger that three mechs all turning and firing Alphas into a knocked down light didn't kill it outright and it just got up and ran away.
Just a thought though, is it possible that if two weapons hit at exactly the same time, or if an area being hit with a laser from one mech takes an AC shot from another to the same spot while the laser is hitting it, is it possible that only the damage from the first weapon is recorded. both would register in the game files but it might not be applied in practice. I doubt it or the 4x erppc + 1x gauss OP builds from the past wouldn't have been as deadly as they were. but like I said, it was just a thought.
11
Roadbeer, on 17 October 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:
it should come as no surprise that what kills YOU constantly will also let you kill other spiders. 
