185 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

I didn't buy for hope I didn't buy for a complete game I paid for 12 mechs, off which 4 can't be c-billed, I got 12 slots to put them in, I got 120 days prem, I got alot of funky badges I wouldn't have if I'd have waited..ohh free paint as well.

Bottom line is if you think its good value or simply hellto good value want the virtual goods pay for them if you don't want or think its poor value don't.

Coming here to complain, or praise it up isn't going to have any effects, other than to waste time and in alot of cases make people look darn silly, as usualy the forum warriors are out in force and are just turning a pointless thread into farce..

[IC Rafe]

Ecto Cooler, on 22 October 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Nobody is charging for hope. You're buying the products available for the game as it is now.

The developers are using part of that income to continue to expand on and improve the game, so that people will continue to spend more money on it. Not a very difficult concept.

I don't care if people don't think MW:O is worth the money. You can speak with your wallet. But people with this self-entitled attitude complaining about the prices and content is absurd.

My comment was as a reply to the original poster: "I've thus come to the conclusion that it is 'hope' that I pay for. Hope that -- if not today -- in the future the ones who hold rights to make Battletech related games will provide us the best mechwarrior experience (within the limits of the gaming apparatus of course) that there is to be had."

McBond, on 22 October 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

I paid because I want to see this game develop and I want to see new games based on the franchise. If the $60 guardian package is the only thing I buy for a year, then that is the same as pay a mere $5 a month for a subscription. I have no problem paying people for their work if it is useful to me or I like it. But there's the idea out there that paying real money for software is ridiculous. Why should a programmer get paid less than some broad who pours my drink at the bar?

I dont expect software to be free. I try a game, i pay for it, i have 0 pirated games left. The games i have pirated before i got a job, i have even bought, even if i haven't played them since, and i spend 50 euro per month on games on steam and other channels. This game as it stands for me at this moment, is just not good value for money (In my mind, if i can spend 30-50 for one full game, it has more value to me than 1 mech might have.)

I do actually buy software, and not a crowdfunder which gives promises and then breaks those. (specifically talking about 3PV, income nerfs (gotten a reply from Paul on the NGNGTV stream where he was on the teamspeak that if the income was reduced, it would be looked into, and this has been proven now a few times, but no action taken and everything ignored) and ghostheat as main issues). I can understand that a deadline can not be met due to several issues during the developement/coding process, but noone has gotten any information about this either. Not even those who have funded the game from the start (true, not me).

[PhyroPhyre]

IC Rafe, I hope you do not expect a different outcome by repeating your argument. You have your opinion and it is respected. However, it is surprising that you continue to browse the forums for a game that you, apparently, despise.

First off: I chose to spend money on the Phoenix pack when it was advertised and now, I. enjoy. every. second. of. it. The value for the Overlord pack was absolutely unbelievable. Instead of being upset and disheartened by what the game isn't, enjoy it for what it is. The forums should not be a place to flame developers or the metagame, it's for discussion and constructive criticism. If you don't like it, you are actually making it more enjoyable for others by leaving.

The way MWO is being developed involves the community and PGI open their ears to the players and what they think. They can disagree by all means, but do not say they do not listen. Since the game is FREE; there is no upfront sale price, the company relies on cash-flow to keep servers up and bills paid. The idea of this game is to not pay $80 upfront for a finished product but instead pay every now and then for updated and new content. Rome wasn't built in a day. AAA games that didn't have open beta would take years to make, you just didn't know about them until the finished product was on the shelf.

I, however, enjoy spending a bit every month or so to get cockpit items and new mechs and premium time. That is how I choose to spend my money. I understand this game is more or less still in Beta phase. I am not paying for future promises, I am paying for content NOW. I actually think the game kicks butt at the moment and have trouble flawing it for anything. I enjoy every match, win or lose.

The OP stated that it there is an element of helping keep the developers going so the game can reach its full potential over the next year or so. I agree with this point, but for a different reason. For me, this isn't so much "I hope they keep promises" as it is "I like the game, keep it going". If you are waiting for the 'promised' content, you don't have to pay anything for it. THAT WILL BE FREE TOO. I am certain no-one ever really actually paid money for a free game because of what was promised in the future. So players have had MC sitting on their accounts unspent on in-game content for months? Please.

This game is what it is. Want something different? Look elsewhere. Play Tactics or Living Legends. FFS, go play MW4 again if that is the "glory days" of MechWarrior. Comparing this to any of those automatically makes your point moot. This game is not those games. Is that honestly a difficult conclusion to make?

EDIT: Spelling and grammar.

Edited by X3kutor, 22 October 2013 - 10:47 PM.

[RexMaximus]

I think I have spent my last on this game. I do really enjoy it still, but its just getting old. The new ready button and wait times for matches are making it unbearable. It seems small but with an average wait time for a match for me being 3-4 min a match gets frustrating fast. I get maby an hour a two to play the game, and if I was to get to play 10 matches, I will have spent 30-40 min in cue of that allocated time.

[Accursed Richards]

Funny thing is, I don't actually need to spend that much money now. Because I can't afford many new mechs, I'm not buying paint schemes for them. And because I've been selling off multiples of the same mech type once the skills are up in order to scrape those c-bills, I'm not short on spare bays either. I was spending much more money--and needing to--before the earning nerf.

[Kmieciu]

Accursed Richards, on 23 October 2013 - 04:02 AM, said:

Funny thing is, I don't actually need to spend that much money now. Because I can't afford many new mechs, I'm not buying paint schemes for them. And because I've been selling off multiples of the same mech type once the skills are up in order to scrape those c-bills, I'm not short on spare bays either. I was spending much more money--and needing to--before the earning nerf.

Before the nerf I was at the verge of buying MC's for mechbays. Not it seems that the 4 free mechbays will be enough for months since I want to grind for 3 Victor variants.

[IC Rafe]

X3kutor, on 22 October 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

IC Rafe, I hope you do not expect a different outcome by repeating your argument. You have your opinion and it is respected. However, it is surprising that you continue to browse the forums for a game that you, apparently, despise.

Again, where do i state that i despise the game? I dislike IPG's pricing model and breaking of promises. I have stated multiple times that i like the game itself and the battletech franchise. I watch the forums and speak my mind about which annoys me on the forums, so something might change (i know, small chance). If you made a game, would you prefer everyone with negative critics to go away and have your game bleed out, or would you like to know how your community feels about your game. Once people start leaving to make this a "better forum", you know they have totally given up on IGP/PGI.

The developers themselves have actually done a very good job in the coding of the game, so i dont blame PGI, they only code the game, but IGP releases it, and controls the communication (lack of communication), pricing etc.

[Ecto Cooler]

IC Rafe, on 23 October 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

If you made a game, would you prefer everyone with negative critics to go away and have your game bleed out, or would you like to know how your community feels about your game. Once people start leaving to make this a "better forum", you know they have totally given up on IGP/PGI.

The developers themselves have actually done a very good job in the coding of the game, so i dont blame PGI, they only code the game, but IGP releases it, and controls the communication (lack of communication), pricing etc.

Thank goodness for people like IC Rafe who are here on the forums with us to share their opinions. The rest of us here were struggling to come up with opinions of our own, so I appreciate what you're doing for everyone.

There is a difference between negative critics and trolls. Most of the negativity and judgement I've seen has come from the latter, not well written or thought out ideas.

[malibu43]

I always find it interesting when someone says "It's 12 mechs for roughly the same amount as dinner and a night out..." or something like that. That statement by itself doesn't really say much. Sure, it's true. But the thing is I'd rather go out to a nice dinner with my wife or go get rowdy at a bar with my friends than get 12 more mechs to play in the same boring games modes/maps over and over again.

In other words, whether or not I think the mechs are worth their prices is dependent on how much fun I can have with those mechs in game. I have personally reached the point where I get diminishing returns on buying new mechs. Once the shiny new factor wears off it feels like the same game (that I'm a little bored with), and I'm $XX or XXCB poorer than I was the week before.

Even at the height of my enthusiasm, I still found the MC prices of standard mechs to be high-ish and the the MC prices of Heroes to just be more than I'm willing to pay.

Just my opinion/perspective. YRMV.

PS - Also, my own personal practice is not to pay for something just to support a developer even if I don't like/want what I paid for. When they get the money, there's no asterisk next to it that says "Hey, I don't like this but I'm giving you money in the hopes that you make (whatever) because that's something I do like." They just see that I purchased it, and I'm now contributing to the message that it is the right product and that they should make more of it.

Edited by malibu43, 23 October 2013 - 03:55 PM.

[Primez]

Ecto Cooler, on 23 October 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Thank goodness for people like IC Rafe who are here on the forums with us to share their opinions. The rest of us here were struggling to come up with opinions of our own, so I appreciate what you're doing for everyone.

There is a difference between negative critics and trolls. Most of the negativity and judgement I've seen has come from the latter, not well written or thought out ideas.

I beg to differ I've read lots of IC Rafe's posts and almost always he never resorts to insults and try to keep the topic focused. Now you on the other hand ecto, always drop down and insult people which is more being a troll then a critic. Just an example of this in another thread down quoted below. Actions speak louder then words. Heck even in your current post, its dripping with passive aggresive behavior.

Now back on topic, PGI/IGP said they were going to be looking into cbill earnings but never got back to us. If only they could grace us with what they found after these last few months of data. I'd rather get an answer now so it would help me sway my decision to keep playing this game or switch to some others and only play this game once in a great while.

Ecto Cooler, on 23 October 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Thanks for writing one of the most short-sighted and ignorant posts I've read on these forums in awhile.

Edited by Primez, 23 October 2013 - 04:11 PM.

[DEN_Ninja]

Ensaine, on 20 October 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

I'm still playing this demo, but, looking at War Thunder, a game about the same age as MWO, you cannot compare the two at their core. Massive and very functional UI, a Launcher that doesn't peg my video card to 99% at 70 degrees centigrade. Where I get 35-45 FPS here, I get 60-70+ in WT, with tons less heat. I'm set to max high in WT, and here, I'm set to max high with custom LOW settings in the Advanced area.

Leveling up is a great experience. One feels like one is constantly accomplishing something. You may not be into WW II flight games, but, the core package is miles ahead of this .. demo. Yes, bigger dev team. Had this game been managed correctly, it could have had a bigger dev team also. Add into the fact that MW is much more of a niche genre vs. World War 2 flight sims, with a much smaller of a player base, they didn't need as big of a dev team.

I feel the need to correct you. Sorry in advanced.

Gaijin Entertainment is a much larger publisher/developing company based in Russia. Pretty much the only solid games they make are combat flight sims. Thats ALL THEY DO.

They have entire teams of people dedicated to making the flight and damage models of planes. This is separate from their gameplay team. They also have FACTUAL REAL LIFE numbers and data that they use as reference to make the planes.

Don't you DARE say that Warthunder is as old as MWO. They have had more time, more resources, and MORE PEOPLE at their disposal to make their game. In fact some of the meshes from Warthunder are ripped directly from their other games.

The work done over the course of two years versus the years of work Warthunder has had is not comparable. In fact barely 60% of the planes in the planed release tree are even in the game. There are still horrific imbalances in the air combat aspect alone. There are planes WITHOUT working flight and damage models and use pre-existing ones. Can we not forget that we can not land on a carrier without crashing? You need perfect conditions to land right and thats with the naval hook working correctly and NOT throwing you into the sea.


Did I mention that this game was suppose to have Naval and Tank Warfare? Oh right tank warfare is set to release november with no current US tank release tree revealed with only USSR and German tank trees.

P.S. Getting to Rank 20 with anynation is a grind. Even with their premium time.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 23 October 2013 - 08:04 PM.

[Kmieciu]

Tichorius Davion, on 23 October 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

P.S. Getting to Rank 20 with anynation is a grind. Even with their premium time.

The main difference between MWO and Warthunder is that in Warthunder you can be competitive in a free plane, because of the tier system, good matchmaking and large player base.

In MWO a stock mech is matched against optimized, mastered mechs and the difference is humongous. My friend mastered the Highlander and was doing quite well in it. Then he bought a Victor and dropped in a stock mech. It was a nightmare. He barely made through the basic skills, bought an XL350, did the elites an now he is more deadly that in a Highlander.

On the other hand, in WT I bought a Yak plane, took it into an arcade match and scored 11 kills without dying. That's because the difference between stock and upgraded plane can easily be overcome using superior skill and positioning. The knowledge how to lead your target and how to use aerial maneuvers is much more important than upgrades that increase your max speed by 10% or even cut your reload time in half. The same thing cannot be said for MWO: in a fight between two mechs, the one that has DHS and customized armor will defeat the one with SHS and stock armor 9 out of 10 times. You need DHS and endo to start enjoying your mech. You need elite mech skills and modules to be competitive. That makes MWO tough for new and casual players alike.

Edited by Kmieciu, 23 October 2013 - 11:57 PM.

[DEN_Ninja]

Kmieciu, on 23 October 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

The main difference between MWO and Warthunder is that in Warthunder you can be competitive in a free plane, because of the tier system, good matchmaking and large player base.

In MWO a stock mech is matched against optimized, mastered mechs and the difference is humongous. My friend mastered the Highlander and was doing quite well in it. Then he bought a Victor and dropped in a stock mech. It was a nightmare. He barely made through the basic skills, bought an XL350, did the elites an now he is more deadly that in a Highlander.

On the other hand, in WT I bought a Yak plane, took it into an arcade match and scored 11 kills without dying. That's because the difference between stock and upgraded plane can easily be overcome using superior skill and positioning. The knowledge how to lead your target and how to use aerial maneuvers is much more important than upgrades that increase your max speed by 10% or even cut your reload time in half. The same thing cannot be said for MWO: in a fight between two mechs, the one that has DHS and customized armor will defeat the one with SHS and stock armor 9 out of 10 times. You need DHS and endo to start enjoying your mech. You need elite mech skills and modules to be competitive. That makes MWO tough for new and casual players alike.

I was more or less communicating that comparing the quality of Warthunder to MWO is a bad idea and is two separate worlds.
A main point of BT/MW has been the customization of mechs. It is and always will be difficult to balance this. WT is not something you can compare it to. They use real world data values to set balance and diverge from there. There is almost no customization in WT. Plane upgrades are trivial except for Ammo belts and Changes in Bomb/Torpedoes/Rockets. Don't use WT as a comparison.

I agree that it is stupid that free players don't have the option to really try out the content(read mechs) and there needs to be some balancing for the current customization of mechs.

I really do wish that Repair and Rearm came back with a fully revamped trial mech system.

My ideal version of the trial mech system is as it stands

• Standard/Reduced C-Bill gain, decreased XP gain, Standard Loyalty gains
  
• 8 Mechs instead of 4
  
• Allow for Stock Build Use
  
• Allow for limited customization

I would love for repair and rearm to come back once we hit CW. Endosteel, double heat sinks, ferro fibrous? All by lore expensive to make, install and maintain. Except we aren't even maintaining mechs. Of course we would adjust C-Bill gains but that is easy stuff.

P.S. MWO can't use a tier system, it would not make sense, In that case we can't use a similar matchmaking. And the player base is something I can't comment on because i don't know the numbers for MWO but I do not that when WT went to steam it was much much easier for me to find a game rather than before steam.

[Ecto Cooler]

Kmieciu, on 23 October 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

The main difference between MWO and Warthunder is that in Warthunder you can be competitive in a free plane, because of the tier system, good matchmaking and large player base.

On the other hand, in WT I bought a Yak plane, took it into an arcade match and scored 11 kills without dying. That's because the difference between stock and upgraded plane can easily be overcome using superior skill and positioning.

You're wrong about several aspects of War Thunder.

You say good matchmaking but that's actually one of the most complained about features. They use a tier system to rank the different planes and it's not uncommon to find more powerful, higher tier planes with lower ones. Additionally, the planes all have unlockable upgrades which do make a significant difference, despite what your claim. On many planes you don't even have all the guns and various ammo types until you fully unlock them.

Secondly, you level a crew per hanger bay separately, per Nation. So if I have an Ace crew (which you pay real money for) for one of my planes and I then switch to another plane with a lesser crew, the impact is enormous again.

This is just the "grass is greener" mentality by saying how much better the game is. There is still a significant grind, for levels and getting new planes, and grinding up their effectiveness while training your crew. Don't worry, you can skip most of the messy parts ... by spending real money.

That's ignoring the fact that War Thunder is supposed to have land and sea battles as well, which are still under development (the flight aspect still has unfinished flight models as well). So technically the game isn't even a 3rd of the way finished.

So while I love War Thunder and have spent plenty of money with them, don't misrepresent it against MW:O saying it's superior in any of the negative aspects you just mentioned.

[Qrbaza]

I rather pay 60€ for TT game than 60€ for this {Scrap}. Over all i spent 20€ for this game and they wont get a dime from me anymore since they are clearly overpricing to fill their appetite or lust for proffit.. I rather go buy my kid a barbie doll...

[Pjwned]

Ecto Cooler, on 18 October 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

It wasn't difficult to figure out, but I am having a logical issue perhaps you could help me with?

Why are people who don't agree with PGI are still here on the forums and still complaining?

Personally I would consider shelling out a few bucks for some mechs and colors/patterns if they weren't so ridiculously expensive and it seems more productive to let PGI know that than not, but then of course if you have enough people that like wasting money on absurdly overpriced content then you might as well keep it that way and not care if new players have a problem with it.

[Tlords]

I love this game. To me nothing is free. And the things I love, I'll pay more for!

[Chihuahua]

Quote

Why are people who don't agree with PGI are still here on the forums and still complaining?

Because they can.

And why do I always have to remove the color tag after quoting in a post? Fgs.

Edited by Chihuahua, 29 October 2013 - 06:05 PM.

[Diego Angelus]

My problem with game lies that its not actual f2p its more like pay to have fun I mean what are you going to do with 4 mech bays hell you can't even paint mech without giving them money. I want to buy cool things something like ejection animation, beak for cata/raven and stuff like that not basic things like mech bays we should have those unlimited by default. I don't want to buy mechs I want to earn them and keep them for ever. They should try to follow dota 2 example when it comes to what to sell and how to sell.

I had to buy mech bays in first week of play and that is just poor way to do things, I don't want to feel pushed to buy basic stuff let me buy cool stuff that I can be happy with, and what is that {Scrap} with hero variants only for money that is just lame, I mean why they deny content that affect gameplay. No wonder my friends don't want to play this game with me and its sad because game is awesome and who ever made this store madness has no idea what he is doing or he is just greedy man that doesn't care about game and its community at all.

Edited by Diego Angelus, 30 October 2013 - 05:40 AM.

[Mawai]

Ecto Cooler, on 18 October 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

It wasn't difficult to figure out, but I am having a logical issue perhaps you could help me with?

Why are people who don't agree with PGI are still here on the forums and still complaining?

Why? I would have to guess that they actually like the game, perhaps enjoy playing the mech combat ... but perhaps also feel rather strongly that either

1) The game is not living up to its potential ... MWO can (and in many folks view, should) have a substantial metagame in terms of both out-of-game player interactions, greater significance or meaning to the matches people are fighting, and a decent and useful character progression system that gives players something to work toward both for their character (that can offer some choice in development) and in a greater scheme outside of the individual match.

PGI has an awesome mech shooter game. They have had this since closed beta and to be honest most of the changes since then have been tweaks to weapon balance, art assets (mechs and maps), and some critical backend work involving HSR, netcode, and hit boxes. However, PGI does NOT have the game they have been talking about since 2010, since before closed beta, they don't yet even have their UI2.0 which they have been talking about for at least 8 months (or something like that).

2) They feel, for whatever reason, that the prices are too high. I am on the fence on this one. Obviously, I could afford the founders and the overlord pack for a total of $200.00 spent on this game ... but that is all I have spent. Would I have spent more if prices were less? I don't know. I do know that a substantial number of people have bought at the current rates given the number of these mechs I see in the game.

Only PGI has the numbers that could be used to figure out whether a decrease in prices could enhance revenues.

However, given the number of hours some folks have played this game ... if they haven't spent any money on it then I don't see what they have to complain about. Free to play means you can access most of the content without cost in exchange for an often overwhelming grind. It doesn't mean you get to play it how you would like to without putting in some cash to obtain premium time, hero mechs, decorations or additional mech bays.

Final comment, as far as I am concerned the only justifiable reason to reduce prices is because it would enhance PGIs bottom line and supply more funding to development and server operations. Pricing is not set to keep more players happy, it is set to hopefully maximize income for the developer which in turn pays for the development team, the servers and investors.