389 replies to this topic

[Auggie Barrenechea]

I don't know why people are arguing about the legal standing of the names. It was never the name that was an issue. DirePhoenix had it right. It was the direct copy of the artwork. Including the fact that a few of the images even had the same unit markings as the originals. The Warhammer on the box set comes to mind...

And as for the thin leg design of the original, it was that way because if I remember correctly the Zentraedi Officer's Battle Pod had a detachable rocket thruster that allowed it better movement in space. Just like the Phoenix Hawk. It's jumpjets were the deep space boosters from the veritech.

But I am enjoying the different variations that are coming up in this. But I would like to see the thinner legs. The larger armoured legs make the designs cumbersome. I really wish I could freaking draw... Keep up the good work guys!

[Bhael Fire]

Auggie Barrenechea, on 30 October 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

But I would like to see the thinner legs. The larger armoured legs make the designs cumbersome.

I think the thin/spindly legs and wiry arms are part of the visually taboo aspects of the original design that HG gets all puffed up about....along with the long head-mounted auto-cannon. Also, stylistically most of the IS mechs so far in MWO have thicker legs in general.


The most important thing that captures the vibe of the Marauder is its lurched-over chicken walker gait with the counter-balancing arms stretched out forward in an aggressive stance.

[DirePhoenix]

Bhael Fire, on 30 October 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

I think the thin/spindly legs and wiry arms are part of the visually taboo aspects of the original design that HG gets all puffed up about....along with the long head-mounted auto-cannon. Also, stylistically most of the IS mechs so far in MWO have thicker legs in general.


The most important thing that captures the vibe of the Marauder is its lurched-over chicken walker gait with the counter-balancing arms stretched out forward in an aggressive stance.

These legs are pretty dang spindly, and these designs aren't being contested.

Personally, I don't think the Marauder should have spindly legs. Not only do these look awkward (center of balance is way off), they look like they shouldn't support the weight of the mech. The Marauder is a Heavy Mech. the heaviest it can be without being an Assault Mech. It shouldn't have spindly stilt legs like a Locust.

[Bhael Fire]

DirePhoenix, on 30 October 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

These legs are pretty dang spindly, and these designs aren't being contested.

I was under the assumption that the person I was responding to was referring to those designs as being too bulky.

As I've mentioned, I think Alex's design is probably one of the best re-designs I've seen. I think if HG has an issue with that one, then it seems they'd most likely put up a fuss no matter what it looked like.

[DirePhoenix]

Bhael Fire, on 30 October 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

I was under the assumption that the person I was responding to was referring to those designs as being too bulky.

As I've mentioned, I think Alex's design is probably one of the best re-designs I've seen. I think if HG has an issue with that one, then it seems they'd most likely put up a fuss no matter what it looked like.

I thought he was talking about everyone else's designs (like Shimmering Sword's) where they make the legs bulky. Even the Cataphract, which in lore, is made from Marauder parts, especially the legs and right arm. has thicker legs.

I think it's the best iteration of the ReSeen Marauder as well. As for HG, they clearly don't have an issue with it, since it's the same design that continues to be published for 10 years now. If PGI uses a design that's inspired from this one, there can be even less issue.

The problem is: will the community accept it? As Ekman said in the twitter post, "What are people's expectations?" Past experience from when the TRO: Project Phoenix came out in 2003 is that if it doesn't look like the original art, the community won't accept it, and I think we as a community need to drop that attitude or else we're shooting ourselves in the foot and ensuring that we'll never see these mechs if we don't let go of the contested art.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 30 October 2013 - 01:32 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

well it certainly wouldn't reach mine, a head rivelling the catapults for target worthyness and the gawking shoulder armour isn't on in my opinion. i wouldn't buy it. also the side torso's are sqaut radiators which rtemin me of something you'd see in hawken. it's all very well saying it's an attitude problem but the truth is it's an athetics problem. many consider it an uglier mech in general, even if you introduced it as a whole new design with a new name etc. it would still be ugly and away from the hangers.

shimmering sword's interpretation although a slimmer taller behemoth/stone rhino style is a good compromise... but lets wait and see what other ideas come up. maybe someone will solve the legs and "head" mounted gunbarrel IP problems?

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 30 October 2013 - 09:48 PM.

[DirePhoenix]

GalaxyBluestar, on 30 October 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

well it certainly wouldn't reach mine, a head rivelling the catapults for target worthyness and the gawking shoulder armour isn't on in my opinion. i wouldn't buy it. also the side torso's are sqaut radiators which rtemin me of something you'd see in hawken. it's all very well saying it's an attitude problem but the truth is it's an athetics problem. many consider it an uglier mech in general, even if you introduced it as a whole new design with a new name etc. it would still be ugly and away from the hangers.

shimmering sword's interpretation although a slimmer taller goliath/stone rhino style is a good compromise... but lets wait and see what other ideas come up. maybe someone will solve the legs and "head" mounted gunbarrel IP problems?

Shimmering Sword's Marauder also has the same obvious cockpit area problem as the Catapult, with even more glass and less solid structure to offer protection.

[GalaxyBluestar]

DirePhoenix, on 30 October 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Shimmering Sword's Marauder also has the same obvious cockpit area problem as the Catapult, with even more glass and less solid structure to offer protection.

lol yes it would need a redesign and i'd tweak the leg design to give it more individual flare rather than a generic chinken walker bulk like some fomous clan mechs have. i know the relation between the phract and MAD legs but really it would be nice to have an echo of the original with a new interpretation that doesn't mean we're just copy pasting exsisting stuff. that's more of a clan thing although IS mechs do it to. i'd just like the homologinised fitments {limbs and so forth} to be a clan thing, but that's just me.

[MadFJohn]

well if you look in to the original House Leo book you will find the legs and right arm are the MAD with no Mod
here is the first Cataphract


here the 3050


and the Caesar is a rebuild of the Cataphract by Davion for 3050 also

[Sybreed]

hey guys, who is Shimmering Sword and why did everyone {Scrap} their pants when he said he'd enter the contest? I'm guessing he's some kind of BT lord, but can anyone tell me exactly?

[dak irakoz]

here's mine so far, I'll colour it and stuff

[DirePhoenix]

Sybreed, on 30 October 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

hey guys, who is Shimmering Sword and why did everyone {Scrap} their pants when he said he'd enter the contest? I'm guessing he's some kind of BT lord, but can anyone tell me exactly?

This is Shimmering Sword's (Anthony Scroggins) Marauder design:



His design was also adapted for the experimental MAD-4X Marauder seen on the cover of XTRO: Succession Wars Vol I (published November 2012), so it kind of makes it a little more official:



EDIT: Also as I've said before, Topps, Inc. owns all the Battletech art that goes into sourcebooks and print media. Catalyst Games licenses the art from Topps. FD (Alex Iglesias) is MWO's artist, and while MWO can't use actual Topps-owned art, PGI (Alex) can create new art based on sourcebook material... just like every mech already in the game.

TLDR; So, I don't see why we can't get a Marauder that is FD's take on Shimmering Sword's take of the Marauder. My brain is sort of exploding with the possibilities of awesome right now. (although please armor up that cockpit, and no ReSeen stilt-legs please)

Edited by DirePhoenix, 30 October 2013 - 08:16 PM.

[Sybreed]

neat, can't wait to see his stuff

[Durant Carlyle]

I would much rather have the Project Phoenix artwork be the basis of the MW:O Marauder than Shimmering Sword's.

SS's looks like an assault 'Mech -- see Warhawk/Masakari and Dire Wolf/Daishi. Plus, it looks way too long, like those training airplanes that have been elongated to accommodate a second cockpit.

The original Marauder's legs were skinny -- yes, they flared out if looking at them from the side, but they were still skinny if looked at from the front, see Marauder Internal Schematics View on Sarna Marauder page -- and the PP artwork matches that. Plus, the PP artwork already has the variants looking differently depending on their armament (compare MAD-5T vs. -7D vs. -9M vs. -9S on Sarna Marauder page).

The Marauder is one of my favorite 'Mechs of all time, but if it looks like SS's design in MW:O ... that would be enough to keep me from piloting it at all.

[DirePhoenix]

Durant Carlyle, on 30 October 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

I would much rather have the Project Phoenix artwork be the basis of the MW:O Marauder than Shimmering Sword's.

SS's looks like an assault 'Mech -- see Warhawk/Masakari and Dire Wolf/Daishi. Plus, it looks way too long, like those training airplanes that have been elongated to accommodate a second cockpit.

I agree that that particular design could stand to be less long, but the Marauder is as heavy as you can get without being an Assault Mech, and definitely needs to feel like it has more mass than a Catapult, slightly more than a Cataphract, but less than a Stalker.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 30 October 2013 - 09:17 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

DirePhoenix, on 30 October 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

This is Shimmering Sword's (Anthony Scroggins) Marauder design:



His design was also adapted for the experimental MAD-4X Marauder seen on the cover of XTRO: Succession Wars Vol I (published November 2012), so it kind of makes it a little more official:



EDIT: Also as I've said before, Topps, Inc. owns all the Battletech art that goes into sourcebooks and print media. Catalyst Games licenses the art from Topps. FD (Alex Iglesias) is MWO's artist, and while MWO can't use actual Topps-owned art, PGI (Alex) can create new art based on sourcebook material... just like every mech already in the game.

TLDR; So, I don't see why we can't get a Marauder that is FD's take on Shimmering Sword's take of the Marauder. My brain is sort of exploding with the possibilities of awesome right now. (although please armor up that cockpit, and no ReSeen stilt-legs please)

actually the art is based on official stuff an experimental one off



Marauder MAD-4X

now see how simillar the torso lines are compared to the clan behemoth {yes i said goliath in a previous pst #facepalm} which kinda destroys the uniqueness of the IS marauder if the whole production line were to be like the experimental mech above



we really need a redesign as the marauder of 3050 doesn't get an upgraded chassis [as far as i'm aware do correct me if i'm wrong] like the cataphract as illustrated with these original to 3050 phract desings. the marauder at the current timele=ine shouldn't be based on the pract legs unless someone can post evidence that the marauder design was upgraded also.

MadFJohn, on 30 October 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

well if you look in to the original House Leo book you will find the legs and right arm are the MAD with no Mod
here is the first Cataphract


here the 3050

btw more armoured up cockpit and less reseen stillt legs... we'll see.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 30 October 2013 - 10:05 PM.

[DirePhoenix]

GalaxyBluestar, on 30 October 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

actually the art is based on official stuff an experimental one off



Marauder MAD-4X

now see how simillar the torso lines are compared to the clan behemoth {yes i said goliath in a previous pst #facepalm} which kinda destroys the uniqueness of the IS marauder if the whole production line were to be like the experimental mech above



we really need a redesign as the marauder of 3050 doesn't get an upgraded chassis [as far as i'm aware do correct me if i'm wrong] like the cataphract as illustrated with these original to 3050 phract desings. the marauder at the current timele=ine shouldn't be based on the pract legs unless someone can post evidence that the marauder design was upgraded also.



btw more armoured up cockpit and less reseen stillt legs... we'll see.

Well, the MAD-4X is not UnSeen, and HG hasn't requested a pull of XTRO:SS so there's no reason we can't make art based off of that design.

Also the House Liao Sourcebook CTF and the 3050 CTF is not an "upgraded chassis". It's just different artists.

For example:

This Bushwhacker:



and this Bushwhacker:



...are the same Bushwhacker. They even come from the same sourcebook! The difference? Artist interpretation.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 31 October 2013 - 12:08 AM.

[DirePhoenix]

MadFJohn, on 30 October 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

well if you look in to the original House Leo book you will find the legs and right arm are the MAD with no Mod
here is the first Cataphract

btw, this is why you don't let Cappellans operate Marauder factories...

[Iqfish]

Guys, you rock.

Im only abled to paint stuff, as you see here:



To clarify:

THIS MODEL IS NOT DONE BY ME, I ONLY DID THE PAINTJOB/MASKING/EFFECTS!

Edited by IqfishLP, 31 October 2013 - 12:27 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Ah... more Marauder prôn!

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 31 October 2013 - 01:26 AM.