36 replies to this topic

[TheFlyingScotsman]

TLDR: The locust doesn't and never will have enough armor to survive hits, even with full armor. The only defense it has is smart playing and good maneuvering. By stripping my armor down to 89 (Off rarely hit sections), I have seen no decrease in survival, and have an extra 1.35 tons to use.

So. I starting playing with different options once I unlocked the elite levels for the 3S, and came to an important conclusion. Trying to max armor the locust to prevent one-shot kills or removals is like trying to put a bandaid on cancer. It simply does not have the max armor capacity to take those hits to begin with.

The arms, side torsos and cp rarely take hits, (The cp almost never, the STs very rarely, and the arms not very often) and if they do, they are already so low in armor, unlike the CT and legs, that putting max armor onto them to begin with is nearly pointless. I even keep my second ton of ssrm ammo in a CT instead of the legs because it is so much safer.

Since the locust cannot use armor to survive anyway, only speed, dodging, and careful play remain to mitigate damage. In short, all that extra armor on places that rarely get hit, and can't be defended even when they do, is a pointless waste of tons needed elsewhere.

Ergo, I run with 89 armor, and have seen no decrease in survivability, and now have 1.35 (roughly) more tons to work with. Admittedly, this might be problematic for newer light players, but frankly, they should not be playing a locust at all to begin with.

Hope this helps some of the other LCT enthusiasts out there.

Chirp!

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 19 October 2013 - 09:35 AM.

[Masterzinja]

I'll give this a try. It seems like anything that touches a locust ends up blowing it's legs off anyway, so why not just put more stuff on it?

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Masterzinja, on 19 October 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

I'll give this a try. It seems like anything that touches a locust ends up blowing it's legs off anyway, so why not just put more stuff on it?

Exactly. :3

[Kevin Harxen]

From your thread yesterday that I posted, LCT-3S.

I agree.

The best survival option for the Locust is not being seen/shot at to begin with and if you're not being shot at, you don't need that much armor.

[ShadowbaneX]

Kevin Harxen, on 19 October 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

From your thread yesterday that I posted, LCT-3S.

I agree.

The best survival option for the Locust is not being seen/shot at to begin with and if you're not being shot at, you don't need that much armor.

I agree with the approach, but not the execution. My Locust-3S has a 170 XL, a ML and a pair of LRM-5s with 2 tons of ammo. I just hang at the back, adding what damage I can, occasionally getting a kill and then when I'm out of ammo I run around for a little while pewpew'ing things with the ML. Probably my most successful Locust so far.

What I want for the 3M is to get a 1XP bonus for each missile targeted at a friendly mech (ie, not you) that you destroy. That way I can actually be worthwhile with those two AMS that it has.

Has for under-armouring it, meh. The armour won't protect you against any direct hits, it's there to protect you against those grazes that happen all the time with lasers. AC/10, PPC, Gauss, AC/20 hits you? Yeah, yer screwed unless it hits an arm. That said, the more armour you've got the longer you can survive all those laser hits that people are throwing in your general direction.

Edited by ShadowbaneX, 19 October 2013 - 10:02 AM.

[CrashieJ]

do you know what would be the perfect augment?

M.A.S.C.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

ShadowbaneX, on 19 October 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

I agree with the approach, but not the execution. My Locust-3S has a 170 XL, a ML and a pair of LRM-5s with 2 tons of ammo. I just hang at the back, adding what damage I can, occasionally getting a kill and then when I'm out of ammo I run around for a little while pewpew'ing things with the ML. Probably my most successful Locust so far.

What I want for the 3M is to get a 1XP bonus for each missile targeted at a friendly mech (ie, not you) that you destroy. That way I can actually be worthwhile with those two AMS that it has.

Has for under-armouring it, meh. The armour won't protect you against any direct hits, it's there to protect you against those grazes that happen all the time with lasers. AC/10, PPC, Gauss, AC/20 hits you? Yeah, yer screwed unless it hits an arm. That said, the more armour you've got the longer you can survive all those laser hits that people are throwing in your general direction.

I understand the hesitation in my approach. (Currently using 2ssrm2 + BAP + 1ML and XL190) However, undersizing the engine for the locust is just about the fastest way to get yourself killed and waste tonnage. I can see how a LRM build would be fun and help with survival, I just don't see how it could possibly ever be useful in this meta, aside from random, lucky kills.

As for the random sporadic hits and lasers sweeping about, they still rarely hit anything but CT and legs, and the remaining armor on the side torsos is more than enough to soak up that small damage. Also, if you are taking enough sweeps and random hits to be threatened, you are already playing the locust incorrectly.

Like the commando, it requires careful, short attacks coordinated with the rest of your team. It can't be an all-out attacker like a spider, jenner or raven. (And the spider wont be either, once the hitboxes actually take full damage.) Obviously, random damage happens, but I have yet to see it as a problem in terms of the side torsos, face and arms getting hit too often, because I don't get hit often in the first place.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 19 October 2013 - 10:17 AM.

[Spheroid]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 19 October 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

TLDR: The locust doesn't and never will have enough armor to survive hits, even with full armor. The only defense it has is smart playing and good maneuvering. By stripping my armor down to 89 (Off rarely hit sections), I have seen no decrease in survival, and have an extra 1.35 tons to use.

Nothing in this game is less than half a ton. That .35 might as well go to armor.

Edited by Spheroid, 19 October 2013 - 10:25 AM.

[MungFuSensei]

I've been running 106 armor. I can't believe people are wasting .5 tons on a cockpit that will never die. Back armor at 2 a piece is sufficient. 10 on side torsos, then full legs, arms and CT. I have yet to die from anything other than legging. Torso twist equal to the catapult but MUCH faster makes your back almost invincible.

[Mattiator]

What on earth would you do with the extra .35 tons of weight, except put it on as armor?

Otherwise, shaving a single ton of armor on a machine that's never supposed to be taking hits (if you're piloting it right) makes sense.

[TercieI]

Spheroid, on 19 October 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

Nothing in this game is less than half a ton. That .35 might as well go to armor.

Except that at max armor, max engine, endo and FF, you have 6.15 for guns n gear. That. .35 is really .5

S

[Vanguard319]

I run my 3S as an LRM boat, so I just use the stock armor. At range, other mechs are going to have a tough time hitting me, so adding armor would just be a waste of tonnage. Aside from that, the missiles work surprisingly well on such a small mech. (I have a few kills so far, including a Battlemaster.)

[ShadowbaneX]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 19 October 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

I understand the hesitation in my approach. (Currently using 2ssrm2 + BAP + 1ML and XL190) However, undersizing the engine for the locust is just about the fastest way to get yourself killed and waste tonnage. I can see how a LRM build would be fun and help with survival, I just don't see how it could possibly ever be useful in this meta, aside from random, lucky kills.

Thing is, if you're running as a 2nd line unit firing off LRMs at random targets you don't need to hit max speed. And even then, you're going 130+ so you're not exactly a moving at a glacial speed.

[MungFuSensei]

ShadowbaneX, on 19 October 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Thing is, if you're running as a 2nd line unit firing off LRMs at random targets you don't need to hit max speed. And even then, you're going 130+ so you're not exactly a moving at a glacial speed.

Yes, you are moving quite fast, but the two mechs you never want to pick a fight with are Ravens and Jenners. Commandos are fairly rare, so you don't quite have to build with them in mind, and you can go toe-to-toe with spiders without much difficulty. With the Ravens and Jenners, though, you want to be able to outrun them. Furthermore, bigger engines aren't just more speed, they are more maneuverability. Torso twist, turn rate, acceleration, deceleration. The benefits to these areas from using the 190 increase your survivability by a decent magnitude. The locust is workable with the 170. It's in its prime with the 190.

[ShadowbaneX]

MungFuSensei, on 19 October 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

Yes, you are moving quite fast, but the two mechs you never want to pick a fight with are Ravens and Jenners. Commandos are fairly rare, so you don't quite have to build with them in mind, and you can go toe-to-toe with spiders without much difficulty. With the Ravens and Jenners, though, you want to be able to outrun them. Furthermore, bigger engines aren't just more speed, they are more maneuverability. Torso twist, turn rate, acceleration, deceleration. The benefits to these areas from using the 190 increase your survivability by a decent magnitude. The locust is workable with the 170. It's in its prime with the 190.

That's true in general, but not for the LRM build. You're in the mid/back lines with other LRM boards and direct fire support units. If a light gets mixed in there, you've got plenty of friends around to help.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Armor? WHO NEEDS ARMOR!? LCT-3M "Sparky"

Was testing this puppy out and other then being REALLY hot it is completely doable and effective, Note the SHS isnt a mistake, I dont have the funds to upgrade to DHS yet so this is a exact replica of my mech in its current state, and the ERPPC is in there cause I had some laying around but no ppcs, i didnt notice many situations where I needed the extra range of the erppc so normal version is totally fine and with DHS would give you 73% heat efficiency.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Spheroid, on 19 October 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

Nothing in this game is less than half a ton. That .35 might as well go to armor.

The 1.35 actually fits in with the already uneven armor amounts on the locust with FF.

I also just got out of a game after dealing 545 in my 3S.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 19 October 2013 - 04:09 PM.

[Kevin Harxen]

ShadowbaneX, on 19 October 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

I agree with the approach, but not the execution. My Locust-3S has a 170 XL, a ML and a pair of LRM-5s with 2 tons of ammo. I just hang at the back, adding what damage I can, occasionally getting a kill and then when I'm out of ammo I run around for a little while pewpew'ing things with the ML. Probably my most successful Locust so far.

What I want for the 3M is to get a 1XP bonus for each missile targeted at a friendly mech (ie, not you) that you destroy. That way I can actually be worthwhile with those two AMS that it has.

Has for under-armouring it, meh. The armour won't protect you against any direct hits, it's there to protect you against those grazes that happen all the time with lasers. AC/10, PPC, Gauss, AC/20 hits you? Yeah, yer screwed unless it hits an arm. That said, the more armour you've got the longer you can survive all those laser hits that people are throwing in your general direction.

Well, I am usually the last to die on my team, usually because I try to avoid confrontations with me being the center of it.

The idea is that if the laser are coring you, you're doing it wrong. My deaths mostly come from an AC/10 or larger and MGs.

Yet to die by lasers.

[ShadowbaneX]

Kevin Harxen, on 19 October 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

Well, I am usually the last to die on my team, usually because I try to avoid confrontations with me being the center of it.

The idea is that if the laser are coring you, you're doing it wrong. My deaths mostly come from an AC/10 or larger and MGs.

Yet to die by lasers.

Yeah, no. See, lasers aren't coring me...lasers are slowly ablating my armour and then melting my leg structural components. Then, once I'm stuck on one leg, then I'm blown in to itty-bitty little pieces by AC/10 rounds, PPC bolts or swarms of missiles.

As for avoiding combat, hey, yeah, that's great. Thing is, you get XP mainly by killing things or at least doing damage at the moment, so, you're sorta stuck. You can avoid combat entirely, run around trying to cap or spot and getting dribbles of XP. Or you can try to engage the enemy, snipe a few kills or components with MGs or lasers or whatever and get some more XP...problem is they shoot back and then you get that burning of armour and leg actuators that I was talking about earlier.

[MungFuSensei]

ShadowbaneX, on 19 October 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Yeah, no. See, lasers aren't coring me...lasers are slowly ablating my armour and then melting my leg structural components. Then, once I'm stuck on one leg, then I'm blown in to itty-bitty little pieces by AC/10 rounds, PPC bolts or swarms of missiles.

As for avoiding combat, hey, yeah, that's great. Thing is, you get XP mainly by killing things or at least doing damage at the moment, so, you're sorta stuck. You can avoid combat entirely, run around trying to cap or spot and getting dribbles of XP. Or you can try to engage the enemy, snipe a few kills or components with MGs or lasers or whatever and get some more XP...problem is they shoot back and then you get that burning of armour and leg actuators that I was talking about earlier.

Yeah, I agree. Lasers are your enemy, not burst damage weapons. And yes, you do get the best rewards for getting stuck in it, That doesn't mean exposing yourself. There are always stragglers. As long as it isn't a jenner or a raven, it isn't that hard to go toe to toe with anyone.

Now, the problem I'm finding is that the mech damages itself as much as the enemy does. It moves so fast, that you need to hug hills real tight to avoid flying right off and taking fall damage. However, you're moving real fast and hill hugging, often ending up in collision damage. By the time I reach the enemy, my legs are light orange without taking a single shot. Heaven forbid you spawn right in the middle of everyone. Any bump hurts.