501 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

True. There was one where you tried to make him sit. I'll try to arrange a pilot in one at some point (but... models? If nothing else pilot models would be the most important).

What I find funny is how people are saying the commando must be smaller. "It has to be smaller." "It's too big." Yet, clearly it's too tiny.

In Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries, the cinematic there depicts the pilot as standing inside the Commando, and viewing through the center of its face. (Atlas often has the pilot depicted as being in the nose, not the eye). Though if he can't fit (even with some room for having the legs go down into the torso), then yeah he's too small.

If I remember there was a shot of the hunchback that showed the pilot can't fit the same way in the Hunchback either.

[Firenze]

Haha nice work mate. Im loving these. I have actually been really tempted to build up a Marauder in the MWO style recently (Blame the contest) and get some animations done too sometime. But these things are great man. Keep it up.

[Koniving]

Reminds me of a tight squeeze.

[Not Bob]

Okay, these are all fantastic! Thank you for making these!

[PropagandaWar]

Adridos, on 08 November 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

Good luck with it, then. Isn't "middle of college" a tad bit late for such a realization, though?

Oh, and it's not as easy as just 3D modelling. Just like with everything else, you're looking at a ton of different categories of actual implementation. Video game 3D modelling, animation (of models), artistic 3D modelling, CGI (as in movies and shorter animations), cartoon 3D modelling (the new big-budget cartoons are all 3D nowdays and someone has to model it all), et cetera...

You'd be suprised how many people switch their majors mid college. What's funny was I was an art major and used to do a ton of 3d Modeling and I went the other way because everything started just seeming to easy or looked the same to me, what made it worse was martial arts found me and I fell in love with it. Stupid I know but that's how some people are. Now I'm in tech sales and the marketing manager. I just started sculpting again after an 8-year hiatus and that's only because I've been sidelined from to many injuries lol. Why am I bringing this up? Who knows. In the end I just wish Haruko best of luck and that the passion burns within him for the rest of his life. I can see him being very successful in this industry.

[Adridos]

PropagandaWar, on 14 November 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

You'd be suprised how many people switch their majors mid college.

Well, yes... it's not exactly something you hear about often around these parts. Then again, I have 3 cousins (in a certain branch of family) who had already been in contact with college and 2 of them did, indeed, switch their majors. So thinking about it a bit more, I'm way more surprised than I should be.

PropagandaWar, on 14 November 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

Who knows. In the end I just wish Haruko best of luck and that the passion burns within him for the rest of his life. I can see him being very successful in this industry.

We all do.

[Rina Fujimoto]

Just letting you guys know I'm not dead and that I haven't forgotten about the thread, sorry to anyone who sent me a message and hasn't gotten a reply, finals are coming up so I've been really busy with that, I'm gonna finish up the scenes I have ready and then I'm going to move on into making a Battletech comic, I still love working with 3D stuff but I kinda rather spend time learning more about how to make my own things rather than playing with assets someone else made, not to say I won't make any more, but just saiyan I won't be messing around as much unless anyone has requests, I know so far someone wants a Cicada scene...

[Bishop Steiner]

haruko, on 12 November 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

Actually the pilot fits fine in the Locust, he just doesn't fit the way it is in-game.

It's difficult to explain this without actually showing you in person on the model, or maybe I'm just bad with words.

But here's a drawing to try to explain what I meant:


Also you can't stand in the Commando, not sure if I included the image earlier or not but if a normal person stood up in the Commando he wouldn't fit. Sure we can come up with all these exceptions (only short people can pilot it, etc) but with all these limitations why even buy a Commando in the first place if a Spider or Locust is cheaper and anyone can fit and pilot it?

I think part of it is we assume the cockpit is entirely in the visible "head". I don't have your 3D skills, but my assumption is that the commando cockpit is partially recessed into the upper torso. Doesn't address the cockpit views, of course, which are just borked.

[Bishop Steiner]

Adridos, on 14 November 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Well, yes... it's not exactly something you hear about often around these parts.

Not all of us live in a police state where our education is chosen for us, friend Capellan!

[DirePhoenix]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 November 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

I think part of it is we assume the cockpit is entirely in the visible "head". I don't have your 3D skills, but my assumption is that the commando cockpit is partially recessed into the upper torso. Doesn't address the cockpit views, of course, which are just borked.

Not quite. Even if the pilot were in a "standing" position inside the Commando, there would be no room for the missile racks or even a fusion reactor or other internals. The entire center torso would have to be pretty much hollow in order for the pilot to fit in a standing position.

haruko, on 21 October 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

I've considered all those options, trust me, I love the Commando, but it just isn't in scale, when FD drew it up for PGI he imagined it probably being larger than it is in-game.

Allow me to demonstrate:

Here is your pilot in the in-game COmmando cockpit:



Now lets just put it in the Commando head shall we?


Oh {Scrap}! It doesn't fit! This isn't surprising, none of the mech cockpits do (except for the Raven sort of), since the in-game mech cockpits are horribly blown up, with a fish eye effect, if they weren't you wouldn't be able to see anything out of your mechs viewport since most of them are actually pretty small when you look at them in actual scale, I like to handwave this away as; you're just seeing an enhanced composite image of your cockpit viewport through your neurohelm, hence the fish eye view and why they appear larger than they actually are on the model itself.

Ok so, the pilot is in the exact pose he is in-game, so lets just remove the in-game cockpit and he should fit in the head right?


Nope, as you can see, his arm sticks out of the side of it's head, now, sure I could just move his arm but we're trying to stick with what is in-game now remember? Lets see how his legs fit...

Well, he fits....well...not really, he's high enough that he'd be warm and toasty above the ammo loader, engine and it's heatsinks, BUT, he's in the way of the mechs arm actuator joint and the myomer muscles that would come out of it! The red circle is how the entire joint is on the model itself, and no, there isn't enough space for it to pass underneath him, he's practically sitting right next to it, on top of the fact that I had to remove the Commando's neck for him to even fit in the first place.


Well, we can just move him a little to the side right and it'll be fine right?

Nope.


Completely blocked by the eye sensor, which as you can see from the in-game cockpit, it extends past the cockpit, so you can't fit there, not to mention he wouldn't even be facing the viewport.

Lets just rescale the Commando then!


Unfortunately that doesn't work either, as the Commando's neck still completely blocks his feet.

Commando is just broke, only way to get the pilot to fit in there would be to resize it to a size that would be too big for a light, or to have the pilot sit higher up in the head, but then he wouldn't be able to see out the Commando like he does in-game!

Of course, this could all be fixed, by taking the lore friendly option of just saying that the pilot doesn't even use the viewport as he has a compressed 360 degree view through his neurohelm, unobstructed by anything and not requiring him to look through the tiny viewport. But of course, the game isn't like that, as I'm sure you know.

tl;dr pilot doesn't fit in the Commando.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 18 November 2013 - 07:46 AM.

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 November 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

I think part of it is we assume the cockpit is entirely in the visible "head". I don't have your 3D skills, but my assumption is that the commando cockpit is partially recessed into the upper torso. Doesn't address the cockpit views, of course, which are just borked.

Far as where the 'pilot' sits, it's entirely in the head for the inside view. (And the exterior camera box that gets spread around shows the cockpit's about as large as the entire body of the Commando and twice as thick seated with the rear corner on its head). For the pilot to sit there is pretty impossible. Even standing with the pilot's head in about the same position is still impossible. But, lowered down a bit and semi-standing with his legs curved toward the neck, butt resting on a curved cushion of sorts and body twisted 45 degrees to his left to face the viewport it is possible but incredibly cramped and uncomfortable.

In the past however, the commando pilot in MW2 mercenaries is depicted as sitting and takes the entire head as a cockpit space. The head appears to be capable of rotating though uncertain. What is clear, however, is that the commando must be significantly taller and a bit thicker than it is in MWO. Creepy, isn't it?

[Bishop Steiner]

DirePhoenix, on 18 November 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Not quite. Even if the pilot were in a "standing" position inside the Commando, there would be no room for the missile racks or even a fusion reactor or other internals. The entire center torso would have to be pretty much hollow in order for the pilot to fit in a standing position.

I never said standing. I feel that he is sitting but recessed partly in the torso.


We have no idea how physically large/dense, a reactor is in Btech. Since they can fit into personal skimmers, I would say pretty compat, though. So place the reactor essentially in the belly, below the 6 rack. As for the 6 rack itself, I agree, it could be in the way, but that is assuming the exhaust ports and feeds are directly behind it, and rarely are things so linearly bundled in a combat vesicle, because space IS always at a premium. I could easily see each set of 3 being fed from the magazine along the sides, between the rack and the exhaust ports on the torso. If so, that frees up even more.

Now I can't speak to how cluttered the interior is, as I don't have the files or know how to use them. And the odd dome in the window seems like a cool stylistic choice that makes ZERO sense from any practical ones. So yeah, trying to squeeze the pilot solely into the left pane is probably not going to work.

Then again, since the pilot is looking through an in helmet hud, I would say what one sees in the helmet, and what one sees with the naked eye maybe are different?

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 November 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Then again, since the pilot is looking through an in helmet hud, I would say what one sees in the helmet, and what one sees with the naked eye maybe are different?

But the left pane is where the pilot is seated in MWO.

Now by that logic, every mech can easily be explained as a Hunchback 7X4. Totally sealed inside the mech in a little ball with a fancy helmet with clan-enhanced tech in 3065. Though from what I read the cockpit's filled with monitors and displays and external mounted cameras, not a fancy neuro helm.

The issue with this, is virtual reality or not most of the controls are done through the cockpit's switches and levers. This requires being able to accurately see where they are. Virtual reality isn't much of a thing though holograms are. These people still use faxes. Much of the tech up until the clans invade had been in a state of decay. To compare 2700 to 3050 is to compare 2013 to 1938. Tech went downhill very fast. With the trade off of giant neuro helmets that lock the pilot's head in place for the much smaller ones a crapload of control and potential was lost.

It provides overlays, reads your sense of balance and listens for when it's okay to be off balance. These new neuro helms greatly lengthen operational time but should the pilot lose consciousness the mech could completely collapse.

To feed fake virtual cockpits to make the pilot more comfortable would be quite a detriment to actual success.

This isn't actually lore issue though you can make up whatever fluff you please to make up for it. It's a problem that arose with the first models. The very first models were actually outsourced entirely. One thing you'll notice if you look at the closed beta models is that they were much more detailed and the texture resolutions in the 4096 resolution. The game was beautiful. What was going on was a different company made them and someone in-house did the cockpit and the two scales didn't fit. After all they used two different models. PGI used a Cryengine main character (with the suit on and the head removed) to make their main pilot; a 6'5" figure. The outsourced company used something else whose height was more average. In house 3d modeling of the mechs didn't start until after the Project Inception (Founder's program). The pilot's height is still 6'2 to 6'5".

Now they are outsourced for animations but not for 3D models anymore. This is why most of the new models do fit, PGI's doing it themselves. Specifically Alex, the artist, is doing it himself. Someone else still does the cockpit (can't remember his name) which is why they don't always coincide as they are produced at the same time. The mechs are made to fit the pilots now and to scale. But in saying that... The Atlas is too small, the Hunchback is too small, the Dragon pilot is partly submerged into the torso but that's expected, and the list goes on.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 18 November 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

But the left pane is where the pilot is seated in MWO.

Now by that logic, every mech can easily be explained as a Hunchback 7X4. Totally sealed inside the mech in a little ball with a fancy helmet with clan-enhanced tech in 3065. Though from what I read the cockpit's filled with monitors and displays and external mounted cameras, not a fancy neuro helm.

The issue with this, is virtual reality or not most of the controls are done through the cockpit's switches and levers. This requires being able to accurately see where they are. Virtual reality isn't much of a thing though holograms are. These people still use faxes. Much of the tech up until the clans invade had been in a state of decay. To compare 2700 to 3050 is to compare 2013 to 1938. Tech went downhill very fast. With the trade off of giant neuro helmets that lock the pilot's head in place for the much smaller ones a crapload of control and potential was lost.

It provides overlays, reads your sense of balance and listens for when it's okay to be off balance. These new neuro helms greatly lengthen operational time but should the pilot lose consciousness the mech could completely collapse.

To feed fake virtual cockpits to make the pilot more comfortable would be quite a detriment to actual success.

This isn't actually lore issue though you can make up whatever fluff you please to make up for it. It's a problem that arose with the first models. The very first models were actually outsourced entirely. One thing you'll notice if you look at the closed beta models is that they were much more detailed and the texture resolutions in the 4096 resolution. The game was beautiful. What was going on was a different company made them and someone in-house did the cockpit and the two scales didn't fit. After all they used two different models. PGI used a Cryengine main character (with the suit on and the head removed) to make their main pilot; a 6'5" figure. The outsourced company used something else whose height was more average. In house 3d modeling of the mechs didn't start until after the Project Inception (Founder's program). The pilot's height is still 6'2 to 6'5".

Now they are outsourced for animations but not for 3D models anymore. This is why most of the new models do fit, PGI's doing it themselves. Specifically Alex, the artist, is doing it himself. Someone else still does the cockpit (can't remember his name) which is why they don't always coincide as they are produced at the same time. The mechs are made to fit the pilots now and to scale. But in saying that... The Atlas is too small, the Hunchback is too small, the Dragon pilot is partly submerged into the torso but that's expected, and the list goes on.

um, I'm not trying to make anything up. I'm trying to find answers that might make sense. Because as noted, the side canted cockpit, literally cannot work. And as for the Atlas being too big, again, it's only because of the idiotic choice of cockpit design. Half the mechs are actually several meters too tall, the Atlas being one of them.
Not sure how the hunchback is too small, unless it's just too narrow. It's certainly deep enough, and there is no reason some of the cockpit cannot be recessed in it.

sorry I got your knickers in a twist.

[Rina Fujimoto]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 November 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

I never said standing. I feel that he is sitting but recessed partly in the torso.


We have no idea how physically large/dense, a reactor is in Btech. Since they can fit into personal skimmers, I would say pretty compat, though. So place the reactor essentially in the belly, below the 6 rack. As for the 6 rack itself, I agree, it could be in the way, but that is assuming the exhaust ports and feeds are directly behind it, and rarely are things so linearly bundled in a combat vesicle, because space IS always at a premium. I could easily see each set of 3 being fed from the magazine along the sides, between the rack and the exhaust ports on the torso. If so, that frees up even more.

Now I can't speak to how cluttered the interior is, as I don't have the files or know how to use them. And the odd dome in the window seems like a cool stylistic choice that makes ZERO sense from any practical ones. So yeah, trying to squeeze the pilot solely into the left pane is probably not going to work.

Then again, since the pilot is looking through an in helmet hud, I would say what one sees in the helmet, and what one sees with the naked eye maybe are different?

Bishop, you do realize the Commando you highlighted is the one I resized to fit right? The one on the right is the original.

[Rina Fujimoto]

Koniving, on 18 November 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

Far as where the 'pilot' sits, it's entirely in the head for the inside view. (And the exterior camera box that gets spread around shows the cockpit's about as large as the entire body of the Commando and twice as thick seated with the rear corner on its head). For the pilot to sit there is pretty impossible. Even standing with the pilot's head in about the same position is still impossible. But, lowered down a bit and semi-standing with his legs curved toward the neck, butt resting on a curved cushion of sorts and body twisted 45 degrees to his left to face the viewport it is possible but incredibly cramped and uncomfortable.

In the past however, the commando pilot in MW2 mercenaries is depicted as sitting and takes the entire head as a cockpit space. The head appears to be capable of rotating though uncertain. What is clear, however, is that the commando must be significantly taller and a bit thicker than it is in MWO. Creepy, isn't it?

Oooh, I love the MW2:M intro, brings back memories, it's how I got into BT, also why I love the Commando.

The main character in my story will pilot a Commando so I'm going to be exploring ways to make the pilot fit in Blender by making a proper cockpit for it given PGI's scale, to be honest I think I'm just going to give it a small cockpit and have it act as a mech that has a height restriction when it comes to pilot, if someone was small enough they could fit, I'm 5' so I could probably fit, but there's still the glaring issue of the giant eye sensor blocking off one side of the cockpit completely, I'm just going to throw out PGI's design and go with my own.

[Heffay]

haruko, on 18 November 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

but there's still the glaring issue of the giant eye sensor blocking off one side of the cockpit completely, I'm just going to throw out PGI's design and go with my own.

It's possible that the "windows" you look out are just display projections? Just screens that display from the cockpit what the pilot would see as if they were transparent.

[Rina Fujimoto]

Heffay, on 18 November 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

It's possible that the "windows" you look out are just display projections? Just screens that display from the cockpit what the pilot would see as if they were transparent.

When I say eye sensor I mean literally the eye, if you look to your right in a COmmando in-game you'll see that it extends into your cockpit and takes up the entire right side of it.

On the actual model, this doesn't work.

[Gnatter]

In terms of tabletop, the pilot would be wearing a neuro-helmet and not looking out through a viewport. I think this is the main issue with how the Commando's cockpit is set up. That and that sensor.

[Rina Fujimoto]

Gnatter, on 18 November 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

In terms of tabletop, the pilot would be wearing a neuro-helmet and not looking out through a viewport. I think this is the main issue with how the Commando's cockpit is set up. That and that sensor.

Yeah, all the issues would be fixed by that, but of course, it would be kinda lame in-game, as all mech cockpits would be more or less the same as your view would be completely unobstructed except by the control consoles in front of you, which is why I just ignore the in-game stuff if I'm making something, it makes sense for a game, but for a story or a comic or something, it doesn't.